Trying to decide whether to CNC my X2. Questions!

[BrassBuilder]

Hey all,
I've lurked around here for a few months trying to soak in as much info as possible and finally registered about a half hour ago. I am now looking at one of two options for my Cummins X2 mini-mill. I searched the site and looked in the FAQs but I could not find the answers that I was looking for.

I want a power feed and DRO for my mill. After looking over the costs for a decent power feed and DRO, I think I can CNC the mill for just a couple hundred more. Here is what I came up with:

Option 1 (from littlemachineshop.com)
Power feed $140
DRO $649 (on sale...regular price is $750)
Total is $789 plus shipping...$889 if the sale ends soon...

Option 2 (CNC!)
Kit #4 from CNCfusion $559
http://www.cncfusion.com/minimill1.html

Kit A (270 oz motors, KL-4030 driver) from kelinginc.com $329
http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

Mach3 software $159
http://www.artsoftcontrols.com/artso...e/purchase.htm

Total is $1047 plus shipping

Will the above get me all the parts that I need to CNC my mill? I have a laptop with printer port to run the software. From the looks of it, the CNCfusion kit has the NEMA 23 motor mounts built into the kit so I would not have to buy a motor mount kit, correct?

Some questions
1. I use TurboCad for drawing everything out in 2D. Will I need to learn the 3D instead? (Depending on what I was doing, I suppose.)

2. Will Mach3 generate the g-code from TurboCad?

3. Will I be able to EASILY use the mill from the computer to do quick facing operations? I know I could use dual shaft motors and put handles on the ends of the X and Y axis, but I would like to go into CNC completely.

4. Drilling holes for lug nuts on wheels. Can I draw out my hole locations in TurboCad and have Mach3 covert the program into g-code and CNC drill the holes? This would save the cost of having to buy a rotary table right now.

5. I build one off 1/8 scale military vehicles in brass, aluminum and steel. I rarely have to make more than 2-3 of the same part. Would I be better off going with the DRO and powerfeed in that regard?

I am somewhat electrically challenged. Mechanically building this is not a worry. Wiring everything up without frying something is a worry. Any advice here?

I am sure I will have a few more questions. Lets start with these.

Mike

[skmetal7]

you can save some money by building the stepper mounts and such, yourself. Look at hoss' conversion, he has all the dimensions you need to make the parts. The only thing that you might not be able to make (I don't know what machines you have) is the ball screws, you can have them custom turned though, for a price.

or if you don't do cnc, you can save some money on the dro by building your own, its not too hard. http://www.shumatech.com/products/dro-350/index.htm

[LeeWay]

I use TurboCad and Mach 3. These will only work together with a cam package. There is Turbocad/cam, which I don't use. I use Sheetcam for 2.5D stuff and Meshcam for more 3d stuff. I export a DXF drawing from TC and load this drawing in Sheetcam. The I figure out all the details of each cutting process and then I export a Tap or Text file. This is the Gcode that Mach 3 uses.
Mach 3 also has a Lazy cam that is free, but really haven't looked at it.

For facing operations, hole drilling, pockets and things that just need doing quickly, Mach 3 has simple wizards that you just fill in the blanks on the type of process you want to do, and then the machine will cut it. No knobs, no code, no cam. I honestly haven't tried those yet, but guys rave about how well the wizards work, so they have to be pretty worthwhile.

[BrassBuilder]

Duplicate post. Did not see that a moderator has to approve the post before it shows up. See updated reply above.
Mike

[dewme5]

between powerfeed, and cnc I would think the choice is obvious. Go cnc.

As for being able to easily perform operations from mach without code. Yes. While you can just hold down the arrow keys on your keyboard to jog where ever you want, and adjust the jog speed to whatever you want. You can also enter in simple commands to do one step at a time by the numbers. It will be very beneficial while you are waiting for you new toys to arrive, to get start to understand G-code. With cnczone, and google that should not be hard. You don't need to memorize it all off the bat, but print out a cheat sheet, and go over it several times. When your software starts generating G-code, it's very helpful to read thru it, so you know what to expect. I had been doing something wrong, and the program was setting up for automatic tool change, code M06, which I don't have. So, instead of auto, I have to use manual. read thru G-code, replace M06 with M01

[BrassBuilder]

Hmmm...I posted a reply before I left for work, but it is not showing up for some reason....

Anyway...

LeeWay...I was hoping to get away from using Turbocad/cam...that is another $299 for the software. I am *hoping* that Lazy Cam would work. I see Mach3 has some tutorials on line. I'll have to run through them.

skmetal7...I thought of making some of the parts myself. But I do not believe that my experience level is up to making ball screws yet. Besides...and this is just my own point of view...I set up my workshop to make scale military models, not make parts for my equipment. I figured if I need something for the lathe or mill, I would buy it because that will free my machines up for making models which is what I want to spend my machining time on. Money is always an issue, but not enough where I want to make my own tooling. Again, this is just my viewpoint on that.

dewme5...that is part of the answers that I was looking for. Instead of manually turning a handwheel to place the cutter, I can just press an arrow key to move the cutter. Golly, that almost sounds *too* simple. LOL.

Now, back to my original post. Will I have everything I need to get my mill CNCd with the links that I posted?

Thanks for all the responses so far! This is helping.
Mike

[apache405]

CNC it.
I don't think the wiring is not extremely difficult, you just need to double check everything before you plug it into the wall.

Depending on the kit you buy, the wiring can be as simple as pluging in a series of prewired harnesses into to labeled ports all the way to having to soldier the cirucit card together, shop around and find something that you will feel comfortable wiring.

if you don't something you are comfortable with, there are a lot of people here who know the wiring forwards and backwards and who want to help others learn.

good luck...

[LeeWay]

What I don't see on your list is things like shielded motor cables, a box for all the electronics, a computer W/XP or 2000 capable of running Mach smoothly, Assorted wire, fuses, wire nuts, or screw terminal connectors or some shrink wrap, a few switches and knobs and perhaps limit switches with wiring and don't forget a printer cable. These drives won't run on USB yet. These things need to be factored in though.

Once it's all up and running, then you have to add tooling and jigs and things. Those would need to be added regardless of whether it was cnc or not though.

[BrassBuilder]

Originally Posted by LeeWay What I don't see on your list is things like shielded motor cables, a box for all the electronics, a computer W/XP or 2000 capable of running Mach smoothly, Assorted wire, fuses, wire nuts, or screw terminal connectors or some shrink wrap, a few switches and knobs and perhaps limit switches with wiring and don't forget a printer cable. These drives won't run on USB yet. These things need to be factored in though. Once it's all up and running, then you have to add tooling and jigs and things. Those would need to be added regardless of whether it was cnc or not though.

Shielded motor cables....I'll have to look into that and see what those will add for the cost.

I have a laptop computer. I think it is a P3, 1ghz running Win2000. I also have a P4, 3.2ghz running WinXP Pro if I need a little more power, but I am not sure that one has a printer port.

My only concern with the above list is the "a few switches, knobs, limit switches"...etc...all the wiring stuff. Like I said, I am electrically challenged, but it appears that I would be able to get good advice here on getting this hooked up.

By "limit switch", I take this is some sort of safety switch to shut the machine off once it hits the end of the table travel?

By the "tooling and jigs and things", I suspect you mean collets, hold down clamp sets..etc...I have all of that already.

I need to make SURE that I am not missing some major item that will add $400 to the cost of this setup. I can swing $1000 or so to CNC this...

Mike

[Mike Nash]

I see that adding "pre-loaded" ballnuts would add $120 to the CNC Fusion cost. I have an X2 with a single stock ballnut on each axis. It was scratch built by someone else and it has quite a bit of backlash in each axis. I wonder if anyone has given any feedback on the kits without the pre-loading?

I'm doing an Industrial Hobbies mill conversion from scratch and just bought an extra three ballnuts for ~$75. The catch is that you have to have the room to fit the extra length, which is no problem on a bigger mill.

[BrassBuilder]

Originally Posted by Mike Nash I see that adding "pre-loaded" ballnuts would add $120 to the CNC Fusion cost. I have an X2 with a single stock ballnut on each axis. It was scratch built by someone else and it has quite a bit of backlash in each axis. I wonder if anyone has given any feedback on the kits without the pre-loading? I'm doing an Industrial Hobbies mill conversion from scratch and just bought an extra three ballnuts for ~$75. The catch is that you have to have the room to fit the extra length, which is no problem on a bigger mill.

I saw the pre-loaded ballnuts for the $120 too. I was wondering if I needed them. This might get a little more expensive than what I originally planned. I may end up going with the DRO and powerfeed for the time being.

I'm looking at a setup from flashcutcnc.com right now. This runs from a USB port instead of a printer port.

Update: oofdah...flashcut is definately NOT for me. Kits start at $3120. Wow.
Mike

[LeeWay]

A laptop may not be able to run Mach 3. I have tried two so far with bad luck. I have a Toshiba Satelite that didn't have a printer port. I tried the USB to DB25 cable and was unable to make that work. Perhaps a PCI card to printer port might work.

I have a ThinkPad and tried it with terrible results. It would not run SMOOTHLY enough for Mach 3 to control the motors properly. The Mach 3 drivers test was spiking all over the place. That was after Optimization on XP.
Other laptops don't deliver enough voltages through the PPort to run the drivers step and direction pins.

Some laptops have no trouble at all. It is certainly a crap shoot with a laptop though My Laptops are about three years old, so not antiques yet. Maybe by next year though.