Even more confused

[ne-oublie]

Well, after reading through a zillion posts, and web sites,i am more lost than ever I still have allot to learn, the terminology of whats what, what goes here and there, and how things connect and made to work,things people here take for granted. I am still very interested in this Lathemaster machine, mainly as it has the most Y travel i have seem on the mini mills, 8 1/2 inches,and is twice the weight,730lbs.


However the Grizzly X3 is a close second, and people on here seem very happy with it, and its on sale right now too. There is also more info on here for the X3. I will be CNCing whatever i buy soon after, i think i will enjoy the challenge of making my own mounts etc.I have been thinking of this kit for motors etc, and obviously will have to do the mounting thing myself.http://www.mikebeck.org/index.html Along with a ballscrew kit, its a great start.I am obviously new to all this, so, what else will i need to connect to all this as far as controls etc.I realize i will have to run something from my laptop as a cam program, still would like to put a conversational unit on there some how, as that is what i have been used to for the last 20+ years.There is so much that can be done with canned cycles , and auto geometry etc that a cad/cam seems very elaborate, but please correct me. Anyway, what connects to what?

[tmarks11]

I am still very interested in this Lathemaster machine, mainly as it has the most Y travel i have seem on the mini mills, 8 1/2 inches,and is twice the weight,730lbs

The lathemaster is NOT a mini-mill; it is in a completely different class of machinery. If you are looking for table size, then maybe you would be interested in the industrial hobbies version, which has an enormous table.

Interesting historical tidbit: the original IH owner bought his mills from Bob at lathemaster. When his business started booming, Bob helped him set up a direct import chain to get his own machines built to specific specs.

The lathemaster is a clone of the Rong Fu 45, which you can actually buy from Penn Tool for about $1000 more. Typically, Rong Fu is acknowledged as the best of the Tawainese manufacturers, but the quality comes at a premium. I wish Rong Fu made an intermediate mill of the size of the Sieg X3...

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=4198

Usually, everyone discusses mills of this design as an "RF-45" mill. Do a search for "Rong Fu" or "RF-45" and you will find plenty of information here on cnc conversions... possibly more then for the x3. You can buy "rong fu clones"from grizzly, enco, and wttool as well.

The Yahoo mill-drill group has alot of information regarding advantages and disadvantages of various versions of the RF-45, including a spreadsheet in their files section comaring the different models:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/

The lathemaster is not significantly more expensive then the SX-3. If you can handle the weight and have the room, then it isprobably the way to go.

[krymis]

hey bud, get the swarfrat video series. It is intended for the smaller mills but the info will almost exactly transfer over to the rf series machines and up. I tought my brother with those videos. They are great.

[Trey54]

ne-oubile,

I just got my X3 working and I'm actually pretty happy with everything. I just wanted to share a *few* key things that I've learned without writing a 50 page instruction manual with photos - which is what would be req'd to show every step.

I purchased the Super X3 from Grizzly for ~1250, if I bought again I would get the regular X3 for 850. You cannot hook up the movable head to a fourth Axis this has to be done on the table with a special (expensive) vise. My machine is a 3 axis only machine for the time being.

I purchased the CNC Zone kit for the mill, this is a good kit and I can reccomend, but the directions are non-existent and I spent a lot of time redoing stuff that would not be necessary if done in the correct order. You could make a kit yourself, but you would need an already working CNC mill to make parts and find a supplier of proper ball screws & pulleys.

Vise: Buy a good vise from Enco or MSDiscount; I bought a vise from Little Machine Shop for $60 that was out of alginment of .012" vertically from one side to the other (3" apart). This is now sitting on my floor and I'm using a $150 vise from MSDiscount; I've read good things about the Enco Precision Vise ~$70.

I purchased the Xylotex 4-Axis controller with the 425 in/oz steppers. My Z Axis is supported with a gas spring. I have them on all axis and everything works well. You will blow this expensive electronics up if you unplug a motor while working on it. I blew out my Z-Axis by accident. Tape your connections with electrical tape. Fortunately I have an extra axis that is easy to change. I know Gecko makes a Vampire (unkillable) drive - I would consider this if I had to do all over again.

Software:
CAD: Alibre Design I paid $600 but they have a limited package for less than $200
CAM: Meshcam ~150, At first I was annoyed with Meschcam, but it is really starting to grow on me after pricing Alibre's CAM and others which are close to $1000. So I am getting very good at working within Meshcam's limits.
Machine Controller: Mach3 ~150

Honestly, My biggest complaint is the spindle speed is limited to 1800 RPM and there is a lot of work to set all this up. Most of the frustration is waiting on a part to be delivered. If I knew then what I know now I would seriously consider a SYIL machine, sure I saved about a 1,000 bucks but my Z-Axis has .012 backlash (which I'm working on) and it took me 5 months to get working...

Mill: 1250
Stand: 250
Xylotex: 525
CNC Fusion: 550
Limit Switches: 100
Software: $350 for Meshcam and Mach3
Plan on a budget of another $1000 for all your tooling, vise, coolant, clamps.

GOOD LUCK!

[ne-oublie]

Originally Posted by tmarks11 The lathemaster is NOT a mini-mill; it is in a completely different class of machinery.

Well, excuse me, i did say i was new to this.

Originally Posted by krymis hey bud, get the swarfrat video series. It is intended for the smaller mills but the info will almost exactly transfer over to the rf series machines and up. I tought my brother with those videos. They are great.

Thanks, the terminology i was referring to was all the talk about electronics etc, of which i have stated i know nothing about. As far as machining is concerned, i have been a machinist for 31 years, manual as well as CNC, but mostly CNC,i think i picked up a little knowledge along the way to know what i am talking about. maybe i am getting off on the wrong foot here, but have not had the help i thought i would have had, from a recommended site. For those of you that have given me good advise, i thank you.All i wanted was to learn something new, with the help of this site,so far not all that forth coming.Later.

[ne-oublie]

Trey54, thank you this is more like it.I see you posted before my rant, there was no posts when i started/stopped and started again. I have at my disposal a cnc to make all the parts i need while setting up my new mill, whatever that may be.As you said, it will take time,and i will probably not save much, if anything at all.What i will get is a much better understanding of how these things work and are put together.As i have said, i have programed and ran cnc for years, but have little understanding of how they do, what they do.I do have the space for a full size knee mill, but i will be concentrating mostly small parts for a hobby, not a a second income/job.Thanks again, you have given me much to look into,cheers.

[rocket5979]

Originally Posted by ne-oublie Well, excuse me, i did say i was new to this. maybe i am getting off on the wrong foot here, but have not had the help i thought i would have had, from a recommended site. For those of you that have given me good advise, i thank you.All i wanted was to learn something new, with the help of this site,so far not all that forth coming.Later.

It seems that all people who have posted thus far in your thread have attempted to be helpful. No one in here has ANY idea what your current skill level is. That is why most will default to the approach like a person is totally new to things so that they do not talk over a persons head. It seems your attitude towards some of these people's attempts to direct you down the right path was much too hasty. From what I have seen while browsing here there are many people who want to help. Give them a chance. Heck it has only been a few hours since you even posted this thread, what do you expect?

[ne-oublie]

Originally Posted by rocket5979 It seems that all people who have posted thus far in your thread have attempted to be helpful. No one in here has ANY idea what your current skill level is. That is why most will default to the approach like a person is totally new to things so that they do not talk over a persons head. It seems your attitude towards some of these people's attempts to direct you down the right path was much too hasty. From what I have seen while browsing here there are many people who want to help. Give them a chance. Heck it has only been a few hours since you even posted this thread, what do you expect?

Yes, you are right , my apologies. It was my assumption that all benchtop mills were mini-mills, i was so wrong on that, this i now know. I am having a hard time picturing how all these electronics hook together,and what it is i really need.Fitting the ballsrew set up and mounting the motors, brackets etc, i see that as pretty straight forward, with a little tweaking here and there. But the rest of it Is there a rough sketch or drawing out there that shows roughly what goes were, from motors to final control, i realize that each machine will be different, but is the basic approach same?My apologies once again, later.

[tmarks11]

Kelinginc sells complete elctronics packages to cnc a small mill (such as the x3). If you check out the link below, about halfway down the page there are links to some pdf files with schematics for hooking up electronics, as well as step-by-step instructions for setting up mach3 to control the axis of the mill.

http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

Keling has his own subforum here, and you can probably find some more information related to wiring of the electronics already posted to his forum.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/automation_technology_products/

Alot of people end up using gecko stepper drives to drive their stepper motors. There is a dedicated subforum for this. This in particular might be a good thread to read; has some schematics of how the geckos are wired up:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890

[Micro Rotors]

ne-oublie,

If you go with Mike Becks kit, he will go to the end of the world to help you out with his support. GREAT GUY is all I can say! He hangs out on the HobbyCNC group site offering tons of help.

Bill

[ne-oublie]

Originally Posted by tmarks11 Kelinginc sells complete elctronics packages to cnc a small mill (such as the x3). If you check out the link below, about halfway down the page there are links to some pdf files with schematics for hooking up electronics, as well as step-by-step instructions for setting up mach3 to control the axis of the mill. http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html Keling has his own subforum here, and you can probably find some more information related to wiring of the electronics already posted to his forum. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=327 Alot of people end up using gecko stepper drives to drive their stepper motors. There is a dedicated subforum for this. This in particular might be a good thread to read; has some schematics of how the geckos are wired up: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890

Originally Posted by Micro Rotors ne-oublie, If you go with Mike Becks kit, he will go to the end of the world to help you out with his support. GREAT GUY is all I can say! He hangs out on the HobbyCNC group site offering tons of help. Bill

Thanks guys, this is what i was after, i see now basically how it all fits together