Using Moglice or Similar to Improve your Mill Ways?

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Hi all,

Has anyone used or thought about using Moglice or similar to improve the performance of their mill?

Having recently bought a Chinese Mill and gone/going to the trouble of improving the ways and dovetails by the means of scraping and lapping I have been wondering would it not be sensible to just apply Moglice for a superior finish at this stage?

I have to be honest at this time I have only just scratched (no pun intended) the surface on the subject but from what I have seen so far it would make a big difference to the performance of even our hobby/prototype machines.

I am now (when I can find the time) doing an in depth study of the use of products like Moglice and its application so during this the reason for not using it may become self evident but if others have been down this road and can shed some light on the subject it could save me a lot of time which could be better spent making chips.

Please jump in if you can it will be appreciated,

John

[digits]

Originally Posted by Oldmanandhistoy Hi all, Has anyone used or thought about using Moglice or similar to improve the performance of their mill? Having recently bought a Chinese Mill and gone/going to the trouble of improving the ways and dovetails by the means of scraping and lapping I have been wondering would it not be sensible to just apply Moglice for a superior finish at this stage? I have to be honest at this time I have only just scratched (no pun intended) the surface on the subject but from what I have seen so far it would make a big difference to the performance of even our hobby/prototype machines. I am now (when I can find the time) doing an in depth study of the use of products like Moglice and its application so during this the reason for not using it may become self evident but if others have been down this road and can shed some light on the subject it could save me a lot of time which could be better spent making chips. Please jump in if you can it will be appreciated, John

Hi John - there is a thread on here about someone who's done it to an X-2 (pardon my french ) : Jewelers X2 mini mill mods.

But to throw a pidgeon into a wood chipper, have you considered fitting linear rails to your table/ways like that amazing CNC'ed converted opti-vario ( Heavily CNC converted Opti BF 20 Vario ) or the Industrial Hobbies mill that's been converted to linear rails on the Z/head ( Belt drive in the works ! ) ? If you can get spare tables etc. quite cheaply, you could presumably drill/mill them for the rails on your existing machine. Just a thought.

Cheers.

[mxtras]

I was stumbling in here to comment, but I see Mr. Digits beat me to it!

I have been using Moglice for many years in a variety of applications. It really is a seemingly uncelebrated way of very precise surface duplication that allows freedoms not frequently encouraged by other means. In other words - it's perfect for motion systems in my opinion.

Scott

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Originally Posted by digits Hi John - there is a thread on here about someone who's done it to an X-2 (pardon my french ) : Jewelers X2 mini mill mods. But to throw a pidgeon into a wood chipper, have you considered fitting linear rails to your table/ways like that amazing CNC'ed converted opti-vario ( Heavily CNC converted Opti BF 20 Vario ) or the Industrial Hobbies mill that's been converted to linear rails on the Z/head ( Belt drive in the works ! ) ? If you can get spare tables etc. quite cheaply, you could presumably drill/mill them for the rails on your existing machine. Just a thought. Cheers.

Hi Digits,

Thanks for the link to the X2 Moglice thread, I have searched but for some reason missed it. I will spend some time reading the thread.

As for linear ball bearing rails; that idea has crossed my mind. Dynamic Stiffness (see here http://www.moglice.com/newsite/pages/straighttalk.html under “what is dynamic stiffness?”) needs more study before I would look down that road.

I have not as yet looked into cost of products like Moglice but would hazard a guess it is a far cheaper route than bearing rails but I could be wrong.

John

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Originally Posted by mxtras I was stumbling in here to comment, but I see Mr. Digits beat me to it! I have been using Moglice for many years in a variety of applications. It really is a seemingly uncelebrated way of very precise surface duplication that allows freedoms not frequently encouraged by other means. In other words - it's perfect for motion systems in my opinion. Scott

Hi Scot,

Thanks for your comment. From the little I have read so far it would certainly seem so.

What I have seen so far about the coefficient of friction and that the gibs can be set with almost zero clearance to the dovetails tells me something about the benefits that can be gained from such a system.

I would like to know more and that is the point of this thread along with more study.

So if you have anymore gems of information stumble in any time you feel like it.

John

[M250cnc]

Hi John.

It's me again.

Obviously i have retrofitted a cnc system same mill as the CNC Jnr.

But what i have done is to also fit a one shot lube system the necessary ways were grooved to accept the oil this will have major benefits.

1 Next to no wear.

2 The oil when under load will eliminate slop. There isn't any one my machine as i also modded the taper gib system. Ask if anyone wants to know.

3 The tables slide easy as anything.

I can't believe no one else is doing it, the Asian machines are absolutely hopeless as they are.

I looked at one link on here and the guy greased the table slides

Phil_H

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Originally Posted by Phil_H Hi John. It's me again. Obviously i have retrofitted a cnc system same mill as the CNC Jnr. But what i have done is to also fit a one shot lube system the necessary ways were grooved to accept the oil this will have major benefits. 1 Next to no wear. 2 The oil when under load will eliminate slop. There isn't any one my machine as i also modded the taper gib system. Ask if anyone wants to know. 3 The tables slide easy as anything. I can't believe no one else is doing it, the Asian machines are absolutely hopeless as they are. I looked at one link on here and the guy greased the table slides Phil_H

Hi Phil nice to see you again

A one shot oil system is next on my list.

I certainly cannot disagree with you on your “Asian machines” comment.

So if I understood you’re post the use of Moglice is only necessary on the gibs in your opinion?

John

[M250cnc]

Hi John.

It was surprisingly difficult to find a supplier but i bought the system from a co called http://www.lubeline.co.uk.

They were very helpful considering i didn't know what i wanted.

The stuff is more sophisticated theses days you can get metering units to spread the oil to more or less places depending so you could even allow for minimal lubing to your ball nuts.

IIRC i paid £200 for the complete kit which is money well spent mine is an 8 port system.

I have no opinion on the Moglice sorry.

Phil_H

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Originally Posted by Phil_H I have no opinion on the Moglice sorry.

Please don't apologize It was my mistake I thought I read mogged not modded.

Originally Posted by Phil_H 2 The oil when under load will eliminate slop. There isn't any one my machine as i also modded the taper gib system. Ask if anyone wants to know.

Now I am going to ask what you did to the gibs?

And thanks for the link also. I think I should go and lie down for a while and settle my brain.

John

[mxtras]

Originally Posted by Oldmanandhistoy Hi Phil nice to see you again So if I understood you’re post the use of Moglice is only necessary on the gibs in your opinion? John

I would hope this is not what he meant. I read his comments several times and was unable to figure out what he was trying to say....

Anyway - the beauty of using Moglice is that you can fixture your motion element into the exact position and then create the surface rather than scraping it in and attempting to achieve exact alignments. It's extremely easy to achieve whatever alignment you desire - one surface at a time.

The injection pressure can move lighter parts, so rigidly fixture the components prior to injecting. If it is heavy, this is not as much of an issue but if the cavity is not vented freely, the injection forces can float even the heaviest elements.

Conveying the numerous methods for utilizing Moglice material in text would take quite a while since every application has it's own unique requirements. Not to mention that there are many ways to accomplish any task. I need to update the mini-mill thread - pictures speak volumes!

Scott

[mxtras]

As far as lube systems, I chose to construct my own. There were numerous reasons for building my own - adjustability, cost, versatility to name a few.

Take a peek at this thread - J-Head CNC conversion Journal - TONS-O-PICS!! - see post #11.

Scott

[M250cnc]

Originally Posted by mxtras I would hope this is not what he meant. I read his comments several times and was unable to figure out what he was trying to say.... Scott

My last comment was i had no opinion i was just saying what i had done.

Hi John

Ok my machine has taper gibs but the thread of the adjusting screw has a very course thread and it was also a very loose thread

"Expensive Quality Machines have a very fine thread and tight"

So basicly one way the table went too loose the other way too tight.

It would have been a nice project to tap out the castings make new screws etc but as i like to get the job done i made some big brass washers to fit in the gib strip and a brass bush behind that big fat washer so with a SHCS i tighten the screw the washer tightens onto the bush perfect fit in either direction when it gets loose facing of about .010 tightens the gib by about a gnats c**k as we say in the trade

When i was adjusting the sliding fit i had the ball nuts disconnected and just got it so that it slid just the way i wanted.

Made out of brass because it machines easily and does not rust.

Phil_H