Syil X3 CNC or X3 + CNC Fusion + etc

[iamscottym]

I'm in need of a small cnc mill, because I'm only able to access my school's shop 9-5, and it's pretty crowded then and hard to get things done. I'm a student, so I'm trying to keep the cost down, so I had been planning on converting a Grizzly X3 with the CNC fusion kit, and making my own motor drivers and scrounging steppers from ebay. However, I read a thread the other day where guys were saying it was cheaper to just buy a cnc than to convert a mill.

I don't really know the details involved in converting a mill (and what specialty tools may be required), so maybe there's some hidden costs I'm not aware of.

X3: $1,000
CNCfusion ballscrew kit + preloaded ball nuts + headstock cylinder: $550+ $120 + $100= $870

Steppers: $100
HobbyCNC Stepper Controller: $100
Power Supply: $100
DIY DRO- $50
Microcontroller for offloading stepper controller driving from pc- $50

Total: $2170

Compared to the Syil X3 at $3500, I just don't see how it could be cheaper.
Am I missing something? Is converting the X3 really that much trouble?

Thanks,

iamscottym

[jfseaman]

After being overseas for nearly 3 years without a mill or lathe, I'm in the same boat, looking for a mill and lathe. Now we are moving back and with lots of ideas and parts to make I'm looking forward to getting a new mill and lathe.

Syil CNC complete vs. any DIY is a big choice.

My first mill and lathe was Sherline. Since I lived in Carlsbad, CA then, Sherline was literally around the corner. I used their motor mounts and lead screws and a HobbyCNC setup with TurboCNC. I sold them when we moved overseas.

With the Sherline I quickly ran in to capacity issues.

Now faced with so many options, SIEG+DIY, SEIG+Syil, Birmingham+DIY & RF-45+DIY and so many more mid sized mill and lathes.

I enjoyed doing my own upgrade in the Sherline but never got around to limit switches and such. The Syil is complete and in my size budget.

On the other hand..

I could get a Birmingham 12x36 lathe & Industrial Hobbies Manual mill and do the CNC conversion myself. Enjoy the process and even go for one of the USB/Ethernet controllers (ncPod, USBCNC, G-REX, etc..) with the $$ difference.

Things to consider:

You can make small parts on a big machine but you can't make big parts on a small machine.

Big machines are a PIA to move and I'm going to move at least twice in the next three years not including the move back to California. Are you going to be moving around?

How much enjoyment and satisfaction will be obtained from doing the conversion vs. just getting the machines read to run and making chips.

Can you save money or get better machine/electronics for the same money by doing the conversion yourself and are you willing to put the time in.

On the other hand...

Could get a smaller machine say X1 or X2 and 7x12 using CNC Fusion or others. Use the money saved to get a bigger mill and lathe later and do that conversion with own design.

I got a month or two before I order

[iamscottym]

I've used the Sherlines...I think they're a joke. I would prefer a mid sized mill like the 600lb grizzlies, but I just won't be able to move it. Plus there's a lot more work involved in converting something that doesn't have all the kits available like the X3.

While I want to know enough about the machine to be able to make it work well, I really don't care to get into the details. I'd rather spend more for a machine that 'just works' and have the extra time to design what I want to build.

I'll be moving around plenty, that's why I'm getting such a small mill. There are plenty of projects I won't be able to do, but it's better than nothing. While I'm in school I can still do the big stuff in their shop, but there will be a couple years between graduating and getting a house that I'll be stuck with the limited capacity. Once I get a house, I'll be buying full size, name brand machines.

[Crevice Reamer]

First of all: The X3 is not SMALL! This thing weighs 350 pounds and stands almost one yard high.

IMO, your stepper/controller/power supply budget is low. To properly move this size mill that should be more like $800 to $1000.

You also don't mention a computer or cad/cam/Mach3 software.

CR.

[pzzamakr1980]

I am the one who recommended the already built route. If you want to start right away, and not have to deal with the headaches that come with BYO, buy a ready made. It is NOT cheaper to convert it yourself, especially as a first timer, if you place any value on your time. If you intend for it to be a learning experience than by all means learn, but expect the lessons to be hard and costly.

Now, after that rant, If I could do it all over again I would get the IH turnkey. The customer service is amazing, and the build quality on the components is second to none. If thats too much than get yourself the a syil x3 or the new x4, which is sold by smithy cnc.

For a lathe, go smaller. I have a Lathemaster 8x14 and love it. The customer service again is amazing, and the small machine can do some heavy duty work. In the 3 years I've owned it, I have yet to need a bigger lathe. A bigger mill is wanted. If 8x14 is too small, spend the extra 400 bucks and get the 9x30 lathemaster.

Have a good one.

[cyclestart]

Why a DRO with cnc? Are you hoping to retain some manual function? Also curious how kind of DRO can be done for $50.

Look in the build section for SJH's X3 conversion. Came in around $2000 or less. Beyond my skills or equipment but possibly not beyond yours. Depends if you have the time and patience. And the skills of course.

In the turnkey and semi-turnkey department, read the features and decide what you can do without. Things like home/limit switches and software spindle control for example.

[cyclestart]

Taking a closer look at those numbers, it does look possible. In comparison to the Syil you're spending less and getting less. Fewer features, less power, less capable components. Take whatever conversion time you're estimating and give it a multiple. Guaranteed.

It sounds like the X3 will be a stop gap measure. The resale on a lowend DYI is questionable. A Syil in good condition will have a buyer. The purpose built cnc machines pizzamaker mentioned will probably hold their value very well.

Re DRO: Is the DRO for spindle rpm only? Have a link? At $50 I might be interested.

jfseaman
DYI on conversion on an X2 isn't a whole bunch cheaper than converting an X3. Been down that road, in fact still traveling it. Of course this depends on how fussy you get. Mine's apart for another round of mods. Making a silk purse is time consuming.

[Crevice Reamer]

Originally Posted by pzzamakr1980 ...If thats too much than get yourself the syil x3 or the new x4, which is sold by smithy cnc.

The X4 is sold by Syil also. The Smithy (622 Bedmill) is a Sieg KX3. The X4 and KX3 are somewhat similar, but different mills. For example, the KX3 has BOTH Z and Y step motors enclosed in the rear column.

CR.

[Lodger]

..but I'm the ultimate newbie and I knew I couldn't build one and I knew I'd never have the time to learn manual machining so I bought turnkey from KDN Tools. I was cutting parts in an hour. Ken Cardolino at KDN is VERY knowledgeable and builds some fine gear. GREAT VALUE. I saved hundreds and am spending my time making parts - not learning electronics(not that there's anything wrong with that if that's what you like). Check out his website kdntool.com.
I should add that without the knowledge I've gained from the expertise of the posters here, I wouldn't have known where to start. THANK YOU GENTLEMEN(and ladies).