Noob questions on buying a CNC mill.

[Justin F]

Hi all. CNC noob here reading up and to decide on what to buy. Naturally I have a few questions I'm hoping you can help with.

Background: I want to be able to mill wood, plastic, aluminium, copper, brass, for a variety of hobby-type things from robot parts to ornate boxes. From the sound of it, the taig micromills are appealing, mainly in that they seem to do the job and I could actually maybe afford one The 5.5" Y dimension limit is kinda small, but I'm guessing I probably have to Deal With That if I don't want to pay lots.

I want a setup that works-out-of-the-box, rather than a DIY hybrid machine. It is ok to assume the motors and controllers and stuff that are in the MicroMill 2000 and DSLS 3000 are well suited to my uses? (It sounds like some people recommend against the taig CNC package, suggesting stronger third-party motors. Is this just with material like steel in mind, or a blanket recommendation?)

Would you recommend the MicroMill 2000, or is the DSLS 3000 worth the extra? (Or something else?)

It may be a while before I get the mill, but I'll need an enclosure, and I could start buiding that right away if I have the max dimensions of the mill, and then have the enclosure ready by the time the mill arrives. Does anyone know (or are they listed somewhere - I couldn't find any) the dimensions that the interior of the enclosure would have to exceed to enclose a taig micromill, so I could get started? Any webpages of enclosure-building tips out there?

Are there any suitable, affordable, commercially-made enclosures? (Sound-proofing is going to be important to me, as it will be operating in my place of residence. Bad idea?)

What do I need in the way of clamps? The only milling vise that taig offers is 2", so what would I use to, say, clamp a 12x5x1" block of wood to the mill table, given the table has max travel of 12x5.5"? I'm not familiar with mill clamping techniques or devices, is there is an online introduction to the subject anywhere?

And, getting ahead of myself perhaps, I think some of my friends will want to take advantage of the device, but since it's a significant financial outlay for me, I don't want the useage of others to cost me a penny in wear and tear (especially since I don't have a shop and so will have to put up with the noise). So - what do you think would be a fair running fee, that if anything, errs on the side of recouping a little of my purchase cost? (This also helps me guage how much it costs to maintain a mill). I was thinking "you purchase your own routing bits, plus $8 per hour of run-time", but I don't know if that's too little or too much. Suggestions? And this leads to my next question:

How much maintenance do these machines take? How many hours run-time could I expect before some kind of part replacement or maintenance is required? How costly is that likely to be? (And on a similar note, how long does a router bit last? How do you know when to replace it? I've done a little machining in the past, but no experience with mills)

Another dumb question: Does the software offer higher carving speeds for softer materials?

Any answers, tips, or links appreciated!
Thanks
- Justin

[Stepper Monkey]

Good questions, but you likely aren't getting any responses because this exact same set of questions pops up almost exactly once a week. Try searching around on here - last weeks DSLS thread, and ANY weeks Taig threads would probably be good places to start. That and there are a few enclosure threads around.

[ZipSnipe]

Justin,
another thing and probably the most important is the software. The cad software if ya plan to design things is very daunting, I would definetly do serious research on cad software. Ive tried all the free ones and out of all I liked Google's SketchUp however to use it in a cnc setting I would have to buy the pro version($600) . Anyway thats something to think about becuz you can have a beautiful cnc Taig mill with your custom built enclosure just sitting there lookin pretty but it does no good if ya can,t master the software.

That,s my 2 and half cents......

[alexccmeister]

Originally Posted by ZipSnipe Justin, another thing and probably the most important is the software. The cad software if ya plan to design things is very daunting, I would definetly do serious research on cad software. Ive tried all the free ones and out of all I liked Google's SketchUp however to use it in a cnc setting I would have to buy the pro version($600) . Anyway thats something to think about becuz you can have a beautiful cnc Taig mill with your custom built enclosure just sitting there lookin pretty but it does no good if ya can,t master the software. That,s my 2 and half cents......

Hi Zip,

I am very interested in your comments regarding the sketchup pro being able to be used for cnc work. Can you enlightened me? My friend has the pro 6 version and I have played around with the version 5 enough to know how to use it. But how do you use it for cnc work? Do you mean exporting the model to a post processing software to convert to G Code? Please do tell. Thanks.

Alex

[cyclestart]

Originally Posted by alexccmeister But how do you use it for cnc work?

Never used that software myself. Pretty sure it's only a CAD program.

Do you mean exporting the model to a post processing software to convert to G Code?

Converting to gcode is CAM work. All CAM software I've seen has CAD capabilities.
There may be exceptions.

Are there cnc courses available in your location? I would really encourage an evening course if possible. A way to get the basics and more importantly learn safe operation.

If that's not possible consider practice writing some g&m code. Then check it's output with something like this http://www.ncplot.com/
The idea of cranking out code with CAM without being able to read the post
( gcode*) is a bit frightening imho. A basic understanding of the code along with your future machines operating manual will go a long way.

*there are also conversational controls and a few other weird and wonderful things. A bit off topic

As to the original questions. Can't answer most of those as hobby size machines are a new experience to me also.

Best of luck.

edit: On further reading it appears sketchup is not exactly a typical CAD program. You might find this interesting http://groups.google.com/group/sketc...76ce0?lnk=raot
A free cam program and a trick to use with sketchup. Probably a buggy method but could be worth a look.

[ZipSnipe]

I like SketchUp for its ease of use. Yes I would export it to a program like Mach3 or TurboCNC or any other cam program. Of coarse what Cyclestart says is true too if ya got time to take cnc coarses then by all means go for it. I just found SketchUp to be the easiest of Cad type programs of coarse I also been wanting to try V Carve which also looks interesting.

[ger21]

Originally Posted by cyclestart edit: On further reading it appears sketchup is not exactly a typical CAD program. You might find this interesting http://groups.google.com/group/sketc...76ce0?lnk=raot A free cam program and a trick to use with sketchup. Probably a buggy method but could be worth a look.

I've exported .stl's from Sketchup and used MeshCAM to create code. The plugin can be a bit buggy, but it depends on the model.

[cyclestart]

Originally Posted by cyclestart Converting to gcode is CAM work. All CAM software I've seen has CAD capabilities. There may be exceptions.

After using the forum's search function I stand happily corrected. There are a number of CAM programs that don't have a CAD/design portion. The amount of low cost (free even) software is a bit amazing. My past employment lead to the belief everything CAM related was MEGA$$$ , especially if 3D toolpaths are expected. Likely a thought encouraged by the Mastercam dealer
Not to say budget software would compare favorably with Mcam of course.

Time to experiment starting with sketchup->.stl plug-in-> freemill.

It appears I'm learning with you Alex. The great thing about forums, try to help someone else and learn something yourself.

Whoa, just noticed this thread belongs to JustinF. Apologies for dragging this OT Justin.

And apologies to Alex for confusing you with OP. Some of the advice posted earlier was meant for Justin.

[alexccmeister]

Yes, sketchup is a wonderful software and I am glad people are able to do this sort of things to help each other out. Bless the internet.

[thackman]

I'm just getting started with CNC and have a SyilAmerica Super X3 CNC mill on the way. I've heard that the Taig's can deal with steel using small endmills but it's at their upper limit.

If your looking for training check our www.smartflix.com

They have a large selection of metal working DVD's. I've just finished mini Machines 101 Vol1 and it was a good introduction to clamping and work setup for someone who has never used a mill before. I plan on renting more videos in the series while I'm waiting for the mill to arrive.

http://smartflix.com/store/video/91/...s-101-volume-1

http://smartflix.com/store/category/13/Milling

[ZipSnipe]

Hey Ger21, thanx for that link. But I was really thinking the Sketchup Pro version should do the trick as it produces a .dwg file. Yeah the $600 price tag hurts but for the ease of use I,m willing to shell it out if I able to draw out my parts and then put 'em to dwg then to a cam program out to cnc then that definetly works for me. I tried really hard to get use to like Alibre but that was too damn cumbersome as with some of the other free downloads. But I,m sure if someone sticks it out with whatever program they use they will find all the nooks and crannies that really make that particular program shine.

[Integrex]

I prefer hand coding, it gives you much more control over the machine motions. Unless of course you can afford to spend several thousand dollars on cam software. I would recommend getting a good gcode manual and learning it inside and out. For machines with relatively slow rapids, keeping the tool fairly close to the part and making tight 2d or better yet 3d transitions from cut to cut makes for a pretty efficient toolpath.

if you wanna know a good manual that i started with when i first got into cnc theres a good one by Peter Smid called CNC Programming Handbook

ISBN # 0-8311-3158-6


Id say the best bet would be getting a cheap reliable easy to use cad system. It will help immensely for grabbing positions from complex or awkward shaped geometry for your gcode program.