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Hey guys. This is my first post and I need some expert opinions so here goes: I have a 7x12 lathe and a seig x2 mini-mill that I have had for a couple of years now. I have managed to amass a good bit of tooling and accessories for the mill but I am to the point I need to upsize. I am 29 and I make parts and build "stuff" for myself as a hobby. I have been thinking about the x3 or the geared head model with the square column and the motor on top like the one lathemaster sells. Which one is better
Skip the geared head. Slow, loud, not easy to have higher speed range and mostly redundant if you fit a VFD. I have been using an RF40 clone for the last 8 years, it’s up for sale.
My new machine has a VFD with a 2 speed range belt drive. Absolutely no comparison.
Square column with variable speed drive is the way to go.
Regards
Phil
Originally Posted by JamesRobinson
I just looked at the lathemaster mill. 1,900 rpm top speed. If you are currently using an X2 I assume you are using small milling cutters probably mostly on aluminium. If so then 4,000 rpm plus would make a big difference, 6000 rpm would be a dream. Also milling at higher rpm effectively makes the machine stiffer.
Regards
Phil
Philbur you are correct I have been milling mostly aluminum, but only because the x2 is not rigid enough to machine the steel and iron i have wanted to do. I have tooling up to 3/4 currently but I would like to be able use decent sized flycutters, bore larger holes in steel, and machine larger steel pieces than the x2 will let me. For smaller stuff and aluminum I will use the x2 but I will use the larger mill to do about 70% steel, the only aluminum i'll do on the big one will be stuff too big to put on the little one. anything else I need to know about these? THe seig seems real nice but I have this this gut feeling the lathmaster model is a bit more powerful. Do any of you guys with the x3 have any bad experience machining steel with them, Mainly wondering if it is as rigid as you need it to be and as powerful as it needs to be to not bog down. Where can I get the best price on the x3? Thanks for helping me out, I really appreciate it.
I have a cnc'd x2 and just bought an x3 which I will also convert. The x3 will do things the x2 can not even dream of. But the rf45 type mills look much more powerful and quite a bit larger and might be better choice if you'll be working with a lot of harder metals. The x3 is about 350lbs and is a nice fit in between the mini mill and the much larger RF45 type mills.
Steve
Here are some examples of the most extreme stuff I will use it for: slotting 1/2" thick cold rolled plate with a 1/2" or 5/8" end mill, flycutting steel with a 2"-3" dia. cutter, boring up to 3" holes in steel. If the X3 will handle these tasks accurately then I'll get it and save some money. What do you guys think? will the X3 do this stuff without fatigue? I won't be doing stuff like that all the time, I just want the capability. I'll only use the mill about 5-10 hours a month.
These jobs are best suited for a machine at least the size of a knee mill. It is surprising any progress can be made at all doing this work in a bench top.
A 3" flycutter makes my 10 x 50 snort and boring a 3" hole needs pretty good rigidity.
Just some of my thoughts.
www.integratedmechanical.ca
so i should forget about the fly cutter, how about an indexible face mill with multiple inserts, would that be the way to go for facing on an X3? I don't need to bore 3" holes, I just mentioned that because if I did need to bore big holes I figured that might be the limit. Will it slot 1/2" steel with a 1/2" end mill though?
By flycutter I meant indexable facemill, sorry for using the incorrect terminology.
I do not own a benchtop I can't definitevely answer your question.
Just throwing out some experiences.
1/2 in 1/2 steel you could likely baby it through, your question is missing MANY needed factors to answer. If you wanted to cut 1/2 slots all day you would be wasting your time; if you want to cut a 1/2 slot every 6 months - you probably don't care how long it takes.
www.integratedmechanical.ca
James I,ve studied both machines and I currently have almost finished my x2 and 1/2 manual mill. Anyway I,m sure you could do what you want with the Zay45, its all about the beef. The more weight and rigidness the more it can cut thru steel. The best cheapest deal I found was thru Enco, then Wholesale Tool ,with Lathemaster coming in 3rd as far as price goes. Lathe master has not returned any emails so I,ll probably go with Wholesale Tool as they are a couple hours drive from me. Of course Industrial Hobbies has a sweet version of the Zay45 much bigger table and cnc stuff for it should you choose to upgrade later.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=382&PMCTLG=00
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Measuring Tools, Cutting Tools and Shop Supplies
http://wttool.com/p/3006-0080
Machinery - Mill & Drill Machines - Geared Head Mill & Drill Machine w/Dovetail Column - 32-1/4" x 9-1/2" Geared Head Mill & Drill Machine w/Dovetail Column : Wholesale Tool Inc - Hand Tools, Power Tools, Machine Tools, and Shop Equipment.
The RF45's are definitely larger than the X3, you get a lot more mill for your money if you buy the lathemaster. I've not used the lathemaster mill, or any RF45, but I don't believe the quality would be as good as my X3. My X3 is well furnished, and well designed. The placement of the Z axis handle is something that does not get enough appreciation in my opinion, the RF45 has that handle on the side of the column. I'de much rather have the handle right in front, very easy to access.
The X3 is the perfect sized mill for me, at 350 pounds its not super easy to move, but can be done. The mill is great quality, all components were fit machined well, and fit very well together. My spindle runout is not even .0002", table flatness is within .0005" through the entire travel. There are oil ports everywhere, all metal gears, metal thrust bearings for each axis, and the mill was designed to accept powerfeed. They say table travel in the X axis is 16", but you can squeeze out another 2" if you make a small modification to the end plate.
I have milled some steel with my X3, very impressed. I used just a 2 flute hSS end mill and got great finishes. Mill was trammed to .001 as soon as I got it. I later made clamps for my screwless vise out of mystery steel, this time I used a 6 flute rougher 3/4", fantastic. My average depth of cut was .1", I could have gone deeper if I was in a hurry. I was able to hold .001" with no difficulty.
Also, I am unable to stop the spindle by hand when it is in Low range, plenty of power.
One more good thing I like is the headroom, theres so much of it. Here are some links to a few pictures I took to show somebody how large it is. (low quality images, I took them with a camera phone).
http://home.comcast.net/~phantomcow3/X3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~phantomcow3/X3_2.jpg
Also, the best place to buy the X3 is from GRizzly. YOu will have it just a few days later.
The x3 will slot steel with a 1/2" endmill without any problem if your willing to just work the pace the machine is comfortable with. I was taking some nice test cuts with a cheap 9/16" endmill in stainless. But not at a depth the bigger mills could.
I cut a 3/4" wide slot about 1.5" deep( in several passes) with a 3/4" endmill in aluminum very easily with a VERY nice looking finish.
Anyhow if it's only once in a while for the rough stuff the x3 will be fine.
Heck I even CNC cut shaped spokes on a 4" OD flywheel/.55" thick disk of stainless on the x2 with a solid carbide 1/4" endmill using straight in plunges.
About hour and a half or so of machining at cuts of only .020" deep per pass at 4IPM.
But it did it and rather nicely I might add.
I regularly use a 3" flycutter even with the x2 but with very light cuts, so the x3 should have no issues at all. Boring a 3" diameter hole though is pretty large. Never tried anything like that so I can't say.
I do mainly smallish hobby size projects so the x3 has all the brute I need.
It's a nice mill , a nice step up in size over a x2 and looks to be a good foundation for cnc and modifying.
Steve
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