Travel limitation on Syil X3 conversion

[Greolt]

I have moved this post of mine from another thread as I really hope others are interested in this question

Originally Posted by ob_seven ........Y is a bit more critical, as the travel is much less. From spec it is 160 mm on a regular X3 manual mill. If it is still 160 mm on the cnced mill, I purchase the mechanical kit from syil really quickly. Otherwise, I will have to ask them if it is possible to get a slightly longer Y ball screw.

This is my concern. I have a super X3 and the stock travel on my "Y" is actually 145mm. Spec says 160mm
Syil are quoting 120mm because of the double nuts. They said it could be 160mm if you remove one nut???
Looking at all the photos I can find of their setup and looking at my machine it would seem that making the "Y"screw 40mm
longer would not be that much of a big deal.

Greolt

[Greolt]

OK well I thought that with all the posts re Syil X3 CNC conversion others would be interested in this issue.

Syil will make the Y axis ballscrew 40mm longer as I requested. So i will get the full 160mm Y axis travel.

They didn't seem to think this a problem at all. $20 extra cost.

Perhaps when fitting the screws I will suddenly see why they made them shorter

Greolt

[Ron111]

Greolt,
I too am interested with converting possible an X3, and having the extra Travel is necessary. What all will syil have to do instread of just cutting the screw longer?

(Without using a second ball nut, will you now have maybe .003 to .004 backlash)

No, I think this is a good post that may benefit alot of folks, if they can pick up the extra travel for $20 from syil. If you can tell me any thing else which syil has to do in order to increase this travel, I would appreciate it.

Ron

[Greolt]

Ron

As I said my X3 has 145mm travel measured on the "Y". Spec says 160mm and Syil say 120mm after conversion.

Looking at my X3 the screw has a washer on the free end with a circlip retainig it.
This acts as the stop or limit of travel when moving the table away from the column.
It bumps up against the brass nut which is mounted hard to the base casting.

Syil use double nuts for preload and on the Y they are much longer and protude mostly on the column side of the mount.
See picture of the X axis screw for an idea of what I mean. (it's obviously longer)



I don't have a picture of Y axis screw mounted but see pic of all three screws.



Where the support bearing is shown on the screw in the first pic is where the washer / stop is.
So it seems logical to me that increasing the length of the screw by 40mm will give me the full travel.
Syil even sugested that I remove one nut to give me the full travel?????

It is possible I may have to drill new holes for the mount to move it 10mm or there abouts to centre the travel but I don't think so.
No big deal if I have to anyhow.

Syil did not hesitate with my request but I will not find out untill it arrives whether they had it shorter for a good reason.
Language makes comunication a bit patchy

I don't anticipate any problem and am looking forward to receiving the conversion kit so I can get on with it

[BIBACO]

OK guys, I think I can give some explaination on this item...

actually, the shorter travel distance mainly caused by double nuts. Ron111 is right, if one of the nuts removed, the travel distance will be longer, and the backlash will rise some. But the reapeat accuracy is still acceptable.

why the Y ball screw is short ?
---Maybe I should take a photo earlier to show why..... if the ball screw longger, the end will stick out of the cover of the casting (the black part in GreoIt's pic.) some chip will attached to the ball screw when cutting.. then the chip will move inside the nut, this is not good.

---another reason, longger travel distance out of the base will reduce the contact distance of the lead rail of Y axis. this will do some harm to the rigidity when cutting. but, of course, this is no problem for most applications on aluminium etc. but just not good for steel cut.

to me, I just give the most secure length for standard... so, that's the reasons why.

Thanks to all of you.

Bibaco

[ob_seven]

Bibaco, I hope you can help us a bit here :

---another reason, longger travel distance out of the base will reduce the contact distance of the lead rail of Y axis. this will do some harm to the rigidity when cutting. but, of course, this is no problem for most applications on aluminium etc. but just not good for steel cut.

Well, the X3 mill was designed to have 160mm travel, so, although you are right saying the contact distance will be reduced, it still will be accordingly to the mill spec...
I also believe that chips falling on the Y screw is bad. What about a light protection, ie like a bent sheet of metal, covering the screw? ( and the double nut). So, it should be fine to get 160mm Y travel with the long screw, and we will not get metal chips in the screws.

Do you use wipers/seals on the nuts ends?

About X axis, looking at the picture, I would get the nut holder modified, in order to locate the double ball nut right in the middle. This means some kind of huge shim, about 1 inch thick ( i cannot measure anything, but looking at the picture of the X ballnut, that would be about right), to be placed between the ballnut flange, and the actual nut holder. Alternatively, a modified nut holder could be designed.
I think this will help to restore also a bit more of the X travel. I think Syil quoted 350mm of travel with the conversion kit, and the mill spec is 400. It is even a bit more actually on the manual X3. What do you think about this Bibaco?

Does this makes sense? I hope it is clear enough, as french native speakers do not always get thei ideas through in english...

Would be fantastic if Syil would confirm they can do those mods. I am still intresed in the kit, as I believe it is the best one I have seen so far, and I looked at quite some already.

The only problem I have so far is the shipping cost! Still discussing with Syil about that. Can the ones who got parts from them tell me which shipping method they used, and what they cost? I only plan to get the mechanical kit, as I do have the mill, and other electronic bits, so it is only a few KGs, not 300...

Regards to all.

[Greolt]

Thanks for that Bibaco.

That all makes sense but I am not talking about extending the standard travel, only of retaining the Seig specs.
So getting too far off the dovetails should not be that much of an issue.

As far as the screw sticking it's nose out from under the casting it should be easy to make a cover for it to protect it from chips etc.

I would rather keep the 40mm of travel. When you need it you really want it.

[ob_seven]

Greolt,

My X3 specs are X travel 400mm, y travel 160mm. As long as these are met, it is fine. For sure, extending beyond this does not make sense, as the table "dovetail" ( I think this is the right word in english) are not made for this, and are too short for any further extension.

I am suggesting mods also on X, to get 400mm travel, as per mill specs.

OB7

[Greolt]

Ob seven

You beat me to it

I think you will find Syil have done quite a bit of development work on this
conversion and have good reasons to do the mounts the way they have.

Of course I have not seen what you are talking about and maybe it could be done differently.
But Syil engineers have most likely designed what they see as the best option.

Now you might wonder having said that why then have I asked for 40mm longer screw
It only cost another $20 and it won't be a big deal if I am wrong.
A much smaller issue than redesigning mouting points from photos

[BIBACO]

Hello OB7, I try to explain more about the travel distance....

I've found that the contact distance will be changed after CNC conversion.

the "retractive" travel distance ( I mean, move close to the column) will be reduced after conversion. so, if we want to keep the total travel distance to 160mm, that means, the stick out travel distance must be prolonged. right? this will cause less contact distance than the orinal machine. So, I didn't keep the total travel distance to 160mm.
For the chip items, you are right, a simple cover will settle this problem. the ball screws have seals on the nuts, but I don't think they will protect the ball screws completely.

for the X axis travel distance, I don't think the table should be used as a 400mm travel.it should be just 350mm to ensure each end of the X table not move into the Y table. because if we do that, the contact distance will reduce too. so, considering the rigidity, precision and stablity, the travel distance should be about 350mm. Don't run your machine to ultimate conditions...... that is my rule....hehe

I don't know weather I've express correctly, the same thing in English will hapen to a Chinese as to a French....

[Greolt]

Bibaco, thanks for your post and explanation.

Looking forward to getting the conversion kit

[Ron111]

Greolt,
How soon do you expect your conversion to come in. I am really interested in following your approach, as I think many others are also. So put some fresh batteries in your digital camera. Those ballscrews are rolled right, in the picture posted, they look as if they could be rolled or ground.

Ron