my list of parts for a Bolton ZX45 conversion

[russtuff]

I have been a long-time lurker, and will be pulling the trigger on a ZX45 sometime next week (i already have a non-CNC-G0602 and figure i should have a mill too . At the same time, I intend to buy all of the stuff to do the CNCing, and was hoping to get some feedback on my parts list. I have been scouring this forum for a couple of months and have a spreadsheet of other's builds and the parts they used. I am sure I am missing some stuff, but they are unknown unknowns.

Automation Technology 3Axis 1125oz Servo Kit
3 ballscrews 2005-750/940/1100mm endmachined + 6 nuts
UPDATE: Some Type of Enclosure (not a computer case)
Timing Pulleys from sdp-si.com (not sure of the size)
Belleville Washers (from McMaster (part number?) - 140lbXY 180lbZ, 5 each axis)
Timing Belts from sdp-si.com (not sure of size)
Limit Switches

If the AutomationTechnologiesInc kit is undesireable, I will go with these:

Automation Technology KL34-180-90 1125oz
Gecko G320X Drivers
Digikey encoders 102-1307-ND
CNC4PC C11T breakout board
70VDC 1000W Antek Power Supply

[jid2]

What are you planning on doing with the machine? What state of conversion are you planning?

I think the DMM setup is very well put together and comes complete for electronics. If I was starting id be looking there.

Also, I didnt realize how touchy Mach 3 is. Flashcut is close in cost once you really start adding things up. I might end up there anyway. Its worth review if you need a reliable machine.

Your list is the basic blocks, but there is alot outside of that, im still ordering crap all the time. Bearings, loads of hardware, wire, tubing, dont forget the oil system.

I tried a computer case, it was no joy. Go with a NEMA 1 enclosure or something similar, you want a big metal box, not something for modular computer or server parts. That was my experience.

[russtuff]

What are you planning on doing with the machine? What state of conversion are you planning?

I'm planning to launch a full sized production shop in the aerospace industry

OK, really I plan on learning, playing, having fun, etc. I plan on working in alum and mild steel, and am going for this mill because I figure I might as well get as big as I can afford the first time. I'm not all that interested in any of the smaller mills. I'm a John Grimsmo fan (go to youtube) and seeing what he gets done with an X2 is inspiring. I figure with a ZX45 I should be able to have a good time

Thanks for your input!

[LUCKY13]

Keling and Automation Tec is the same place they just put up a new web site and the old one is still running.


I second the box problem. A comp case would be a pain. You need to be able to work on, add circuits, tune the system without havin gto tear it up doing so. What got me by cheap but still provided good strenth and size was going to Sears and picking up one of there wall cabinets made for a shop ( Gladiator I believe it is). I got it on sale for 79.00 so not bad on price.


The system you listed is good, the 320x drivers are great, but, the DMM A/C servo kits are really a lot better in many ways. Nothing againist quality to the other systems its just a A/C system is smoother, quiter, no brushes to wear, less noise in the system to cause problems with missing steps and such.


If you do go with the DC servo kit I would suggest gettting your power supply dirrect from Antec. The one Keling/AUtomotive tec offers is nothing more than a 1000watt unit with a extra rectifier & cap module. Get the one from Antec and it will have two modules just like the one at Keling, plus it is 1500watts and there is a big difference. I bought the one from Keling and I have the 850 servos with 320 drives and the sysytem really needs the bigger supply. Yes it can run with the other, but it can run better with the true 1500watt unit, plus not work the PS as hard. In a nut sheal the system will be more stable and tune better. Like I said I bought the one they sale, then I took it apart to find the ANtect 1000watt unit transformer in it (they claim 1440 watts, which happens to be what the Geckos need for three of them, but there going by peak watts and you will get RMS watt rating with the Antec). It will be about 30.00 more, but its worth it for the bigger unit.



You have to remember yuo will not get the rated RPM out of the DC servos. This is normal and nothing to worry with, but it will effect your gear/belt drive ratio choices. I have never ran the 1125 size servo, the 850's have a ton of power if givin the right voltage/amps. AT this piont in my learning curve I would go with the 850's just for the sake of keeping some strain off the Gecko's compaird to the bigger motors. The truth is the 1125 may work better, I just dont know right now, but this is my thinking on it at this point.


The encoders you listed are very good, and I may be mistaking but I think the 320x has some things to make them run more stable, all though a resistor and/or cap may need to be added for stability. What ever it list to run with them it does work and these encoders run very smooth afterwards. On my system I have the older 320's and you have to add a capasitor to get stability with them, but they run great with the caps added.


Your budget will effect alot of what you could run. I agree with Jid2, if yuo can afford it the Flashcut is abit more on the industrial side of things compaired to Mach. DOnt get me wrong Mach is great and you cant beat the price or the customer service plus the user input. But you will also need it, it takes abit of fiddling to get Mach where you want it with a system and then it may have its limits compaired to something a bit more industrial. Remember for Mach you need the main program, then addons, and maybe even some other stuff you might wish to have. Then adding a SmoothStepper ( if yuo want to run any kinda rapids), a BOB you quickly get to where you have spent atleast half of what FlashCut will run, and in some case more than half. So its something to consider and weigh against your budget. I myself would go with Flashcut if I had the funds, all though I did go with Mach, but I also didn't understand the differences or know the pricing at the time I purchased.


AGain alot depends on your budget, and even how much you are willing to work with things to get them the way you want, and the level of performance you want. My system has a lot fo what I just said may not be as good as other choices. Its starting to prove to be stable and it will give good performance. But I have seen where I could have had a bit better if the right parts where picked. Do I really need it to be that much better? I cant really say just yet, but I feel sure I can make use of it being better. SO the question is, what do you need your machine to do?



Jess

[russtuff]

I second the box problem.

Done. I will find something else.

The system you listed is good, the 320x drivers are great, but, the DMM A/C servo kits are really a lot better in many ways.

I am looking at their price list for kits, but really have no clue what I am looking for. Any idea what size kit would get the job done? It would need to be similarly priced to my list to meet budget.
http://www.dmm-tech.com/Files/DMMTec...ue_Rev.1.1.pdf

If you do go with the DC servo kit I would suggest gettting your power supply dirrect from Antec.

It is already sounding like I will not go with the Automation Tech kit, so I will likely use the 1000w PS I have linked. I'm not sure which 1500w one would be an appropriate upgrade.

I agree with Jid2, if yuo can afford it the Flashcut is abit more on the industrial side of things compaired to Mach.

They don't list pricing on their site, so I'm assuming I can't afford it. I have been planning on running Mach3 because it's inexpensive.

Thank you for your help!

[LUCKY13]

The pricing is $1295.00 (FLashcut), and thats the same mistake I made, assuming I couldnt afford it because they didnt list it. Now thats for the controller and software (which would replace Mach3, plus addons and extra's you would buy, BOB, SMooth Stepper). You can end up with 6 to 8 hundred in those parts it would replace ( my BOB cost $250.00 and a good BOB is worth it).


Here is the 1500 watt unit, but that should be the last thing you buy ( after settling on a kit/parts). Infact some of the DMM kits dont need a power supply, and if they do you need to know what voltage to get.
Antek - PS-15N77


Your statement about meating budget kinda tells the story already. The main think when compairing is working out completely what is needed for each setup ( for instance with some DMM kits you dont need a power supply), so its the total cost which will matter. And dont get in a hurry, talking about all the different ways of doing this will help get you more of a understanding of what is needed, why its needed, and what level product you need, can get by with , or just simply afford.


Yuo also need to remember that building the machine will only be a fraction of the cost needed. Work holding ( vises and fixtures), CAD/CAM software, tooling, measurement equipment, and the many other things you will run into will cost much more than you expect.


AFter all a machine that yuo can afford to get together and finish will make way more parts than one you could not afford to finish/get all you need.


Machine size, yea its all ways best to get the biggest you can afford. But a smaller machine is much cheaper to get to the point of producing parts. FOr instance the G704 is a very good machine to build, all though not as big as a RF-45 it is a good design and will do much better than expected for half the price ( in both machine and change over cost). Plus there are change over parts available for it that wil just bolt on, or you can buy plans from Hoss and still do a quick,easy, affordable change over.


IMHO anyone trying to do this on a budget, plus just starting out and have no other shop equipment to help, no tools built up, no bandsaw (need to cut that metal to fit the machine), measuring equipment and the many other things that will come to need, will be way better off to build a GO704 as to build a RF-45 ( the hardest, most costly benchtop machine to build). Plus then the vise you need gets cheaper, and on and on and so.


I will look into DMM pricing and see what the complete setup will cost. But you cant over look the big picture here, it will get you in a spot that you cant be productive with your machine if you dont watch it (cant afford what you need to make parts).

With a budget things like a better power supply, BOB, or anything else that addes to the cost will kill you trying to reach the end. The good thing is no matter what level you get in at it can always turn into money when you start making parts. Even if its just a hobby something will turn into to something that other will want. Then you can always expand and go to a second machine, or add a lathe ( a lathe is much more productive than one expects when new at this). Its almost a given, or you keep handing out money to play with your hobby. Which is not bad if done in small steps, but the it "takes more than one would expect to make parts" statement is really a hugh understatement when it comes to the cost of extra's beyound the machine that are needed.


Jess

[russtuff]

Thanks again. I am not working with $0 budget, but I do have one. I have considered about $1k in some initial tooling but don't really want to get into it in this thread. I also have G0602, 7x12 bandsaw, drill press, weld, plasma, etc, etc.

EDIT: It looks like the DMM 3-axis 900W AC Servo Kit kit is nearly the same price as the parts I have priced out, and if I am reading it right it is similar torque, power, etc.

[russtuff]

I think I am going to change to the PDMX126 instead of the C11T (prices are similar and people seem to like it more) and I can also save a few bucks on the G320X's by buying from the same place.

This puts me at:

Automation Technology KL34-180-90 1125oz (850's seem to be the norm, but ATI is out of stock)
PMDX-126 Breakout Board
Gecko G320X Drivers
Digikey encoders 102-1307-ND
70VDC 1000W Antek Power Supply (or maybe 1500w?)
Also I guess a smooth stepper???

Thanks again guys.

[kregan]

I can say without a doubt the DMM servo are fantastic!

I have used the 400 watt kit and the 900 watt kit on 2 different builds and they have never failed me, are dead simple to set up, quite compared to steppers, and very strong.

I have the 900 watt servo's on this machine:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...rehouse_-.html

Thanks again. I am not working with $0 budget, but I do have one. I have considered about $1k in some initial tooling but don't really want to get into it in this thread. I also have G0602, 7x12 bandsaw, drill press, weld, plasma, etc, etc.

EDIT: It looks like the DMM 3-axis 900W AC Servo Kit kit is nearly the same price as the parts I have priced out, and if I am reading it right it is similar torque, power, etc.