PM30-LV or Gizzly 0704? Want to put money down this week

[talonosi]

Let me start by giving some background, I've always been interested in machining and am purchasing my first mill and lathe this week. I will be using the machines manually for a year or two and then hope to convert to CNC. I initially plan on making small parts out of aluminum and steel (3"x3"x3").

I'm concerned with weight and I only have access to 110 volt power.

Well, I'm hoping to order a mill tomorrow and was set on the PM30-LV, that maxes out my budget but seems like a great mill with lots of travel and power.


Then I read the dreaded post on the batch of PM-25's that were all messed up from Quality Machine Tool, that was only 8 months ago. That really concerned me and I can't tell if it was an isolated event or something that is fairly common.

The advantage of Grizzly is that the 0704 is pretty common and the support seems good for it. Not sure about the delivery time on it. I believe it will be powerful enough for my current needs but I want to get the biggest bang for my buck.

So what do you suggest?


Thanks!
Clay

(I'd also like to thank the guys that answered a few of my question on my previous thread concerning mill choice)

[arizonavideo]

If money is not a problem then get the PM-30. It is a perfect size for a small shop and is a fine machine for most work and had long travels.

If you will really be only doing smaller parts the 704 is truly a great deal for what you get.

I have both and the 704 is just as well built but it is a small mill. If you need to save space and money just get it and you will be happy.

Or get both so you be covered..

[photomankc]

I'd be a little concerned on the Quality Machine Tools issues. My mill was pretty well sorted and I got good service from them back when I ordered it but it doesn't sound like that scaled very well once the demand poured on. That said, I kind of wish I had gone with the PM-30 vs the 25. Some more Y would be very welcome but it was a pretty steep increase in price and I'd have had to go it alone on the conversion.

Anyway, my vote would be for the 30 if you can at all swing it in money and space. Otherwise the 0704 is a plenty capable mill as well.

[talonosi]

I'm ready to get the PM30, but I can't get ahold of them to purchase it....... Doesn't build much confidence to say the least.

[talonosi]

Finally got through! A PM30-LV and a PM 1127VF-LB will be on the way as soon as the shipment comes in (late april or early may)

[Alistair Spence]

talonosi,

I just went through the PM30 Vs G0704 thing myself. The PM30 was at the upper end of my budget/machine weight constraints but still within my means and I think that just comparing machine to machine the PM30 would be a great way to go.

What swayed me to ordering the G0704 were my concerns that while the people at Quality Machine Tools are doing the best that they can, my feeling, based on postings here, and at the the Bluemachinng group over on Yahoo, is that at times they're stretched a little thin at times.
The Bluemachining group talks mostly about the PM lathes but the issues those guys have experienced gave me the impression that the QMT is overwhelmed at times, trying to solve a variety of issues.

On the flip side, I had a good email exchange with Matt at QMT. He answered my questions in a very timely fashion and with honesty (for example he recommended a controller board upgrade and told me a good place to buy one). My concern with QMT wasn't personal, just a feeling that they were dealing with supply side issues beyond their control.

Do I think that Grizzly is beyond reproach? Of course not. The G0704 issues have been well documented. In my experience though I've gotten good customer service from them in the past and the fact that they're (somewhat) local to me swayed me a bit too.

To sum up, I think if you buy a machine from either PM or Grizzly and everything goes smoothly (ie. the quality control departments at either company have done their job properly) then both of those machines are a good buy and you just need to decide which one meets your needs best.

As an aside, I ordered my G0704 one week ago and was told that it was back ordered until early/mid April. Fair enough, I busied myself figuring out tooling purchases and workshop re-arrangement while I wait for the mill to arrive.
To my surprise, I got a call on Tuesday from a local freight company asking me when they could deliver a package to me that they just received from Grizzly Industrial. I guess I'll get to find out if made the right choice, machine wise, a lot sooner than I thought.

Cheers,

Alistair.

[talonosi]

talonosi,

I just went through the PM30 Vs G0704 thing myself. The PM30 was at the upper end of my budget/machine weight constraints but still within my means and I think that just comparing machine to machine the PM30 would be a great way to go.

What swayed me to ordering the G0704 were my concerns that while the people at Quality Machine Tools are doing the best that they can, my feeling, based on postings here, and at the the Bluemachinng group over on Yahoo, is that at times they're stretched a little thin at times.
The Bluemachining group talks mostly about the PM lathes but the issues those guys have experienced gave me the impression that the QMT is overwhelmed at times, trying to solve a variety of issues.

On the flip side, I had a good email exchange with Matt at QMT. He answered my questions in a very timely fashion and with honesty (for example he recommended a controller board upgrade and told me a good place to buy one). My concern with QMT wasn't personal, just a feeling that they were dealing with supply side issues beyond their control.

Do I think that Grizzly is beyond reproach? Of course not. The G0704 issues have been well documented. In my experience though I've gotten good customer service from them in the past and the fact that they're (somewhat) local to me swayed me a bit too.

To sum up, I think if you buy a machine from either PM or Grizzly and everything goes smoothly (ie. the quality control departments at either company have done their job properly) then both of those machines are a good buy and you just need to decide which one meets your needs best.

As an aside, I ordered my G0704 one week ago and was told that it was back ordered until early/mid April. Fair enough, I busied myself figuring out tooling purchases and workshop re-arrangement while I wait for the mill to arrive.
To my surprise, I got a call on Tuesday from a local freight company asking me when they could deliver a package to me that they just received from Grizzly Industrial. I guess I'll get to find out if made the right choice, machine wise, a lot sooner than I thought.

Cheers,

Alistair.

you got lucky on the 0704 availability, I just called them and they said the shipment wont come in till may. Thats the same projected time for the PM-30. If the 0704 had been available sooner it probably would have swayed me (plus I could have had an extra $800 for tooling). I'm a little nervous about the lather I ordered from QMT. I worry I don't have enough experience to really identify if there is a critical issue with it when I get it. It just seemed like a lot of bang for the buck and it was hard to pass it up. Hopefully I don't get burned.

Provided the PM30 doesn't have any problems, I think I'll be happy for the greater power and capacity. however thats really just for future proofing, The 0704 would have done everything I see myself doing in the near future.

congrats your 0704!

-Clay

[Alistair Spence]

you got lucky on the 0704 availability, I just called them and they said the shipment wont come in till may. Thats the same projected time for the PM-30. If the 0704 had been available sooner it probably would have swayed me (plus I could have had an extra $800 for tooling). I'm a little nervous about the lather I ordered from QMT. I worry I don't have enough experience to really identify if there is a critical issue with it when I get it. It just seemed like a lot of bang for the buck and it was hard to pass it up. Hopefully I don't get burned.

Provided the PM30 doesn't have any problems, I think I'll be happy for the greater power and capacity. however thats really just for future proofing, The 0704 would have done everything I see myself doing in the near future.

congrats your 0704!

-Clay

You're right. The PM lathes seem like a good value. Check out the Bluemachining group on Yahoo so that you can get any help or advice you might need with yours (if you haven't already done so). A lot of experienced PM lathe users there.

I'm sure the PM30 will serve you very well. All the accounts I've read from owners have been positive. It seems to address a gap in the market, both size and cost wise that I'm surprised that Grizzly hasn't tried to fill themselves.
Right now there's a gap of $1100 between Grizzly's SX3 and their next (non circular column) mill. A PM30 type machine priced around $2000 would split that gap quite nicely.

Best of luck with your new lathe and mill.

Alistair.

[Silverbullet555]

Clay,

if you want a G0704 call back and ask them to check other warehouses. They don't do that automatically it seems. That is how I got mine on the west coast when they told me they were out of stock. It did cost me an extra $30 in shipping, but it was ok as it was the machine I really wanted.

[Alistair Spence]

Clay,

if you want a G0704 call back and ask them to check other warehouses. They don't do that automatically it seems. That is how I got mine on the west coast when they told me they were out of stock. It did cost me an extra $30 in shipping, but it was ok as it was the machine I really wanted.

When they told me last week that the wait for mine would be 2 months I asked them about shipping from another warehouse, but they said they were out of stock system wide.
Then, today a truck pulled up outside my house and dropped off my mill, 7 weeks ahead of schedule. Not sure how that happened but there it is. I called Grizzly to ask for an explanation but the person I spoke to was unable to give me one.

Alistair.

[hoss2006]

That's been happening since grizzly started selling the g0704 2 years ago.
Seems their shipping dept still can't keep track of which warehouse has mills for sale
or mills earmarked for someone. They just keep saying 6 weeks when someone asks
then surprise them with an "early" gift. Happened to me and I got one of the first ones.
Hoss

[arizonavideo]

The problem with the 30 not being more popular is just how it fits in the marketplace.
When people start looking at the larger mills the rule of "get as big as you can fit and afford" kicks in and they get a RF-45 or the like.

The cost of the 30 is also close to the 45 so most people just get the larger mill.

The 30 has a higher speed spindle and is just easier to use and setup. Until I went to the belt drive on the IH mill most of the smaller jobs I would do on the 30.

The 30 is not CNC yet but it is still fun to use and it is always ready to do a job and the fit and finish is just great. I always feel like I'm using a quality piece of equipment when I mill with it.

I like the power of my 3HP IH mill but I just don't expect the little 30 to do things at the same rate.( I was ruffing some AL plates the other day at .25" DOC at 45IPM and 2" wide. I stalled the VFD on the second pass but the first was OK.) I do think a 2HP VFD belt drive setup would be a good upgrade for the 30 if it was CNC'ed and doing long runs. The stock motor could use a little more power.

Enjoy you new Mill and post a few pictures.

PS, The general word about QMT has been good. They have been good at shipping and delivering products on time, only a few problems with a bad lot of mills.