Looking for my first mill

[talonosi]

I'm looking to get into my first mill. I used to be a machine operator at a small machine shop so I'm mildly familiar with machining, but still pretty much a newb.

I'm looking for my first mill, I plan on running it manually at first with a possible cnc conversion a few years down the road.

I have some limitations because of my shop that I'll need to take into account.

My shop is on the second story of a commercial building. This limits me in weight because I can't be hauling a 1000 pound machine up the stairs (and i'm not sure the floor would support such weight).

I've been leaning toward the ZX 45. It seem like its just about the biggest machine that I could manage to move with a few able bodied friends and some diss assembly.

What do you think about that machine? Is it a good options? would you suggest another RF 45 clone that is on the market?

Thanks a bunch for your help!

Clay

[talonosi]

I should have mentioned, I'm limited to only 110 volts in my space.

[talonosi]

The other mills I've been looking at are the Lathemaster LMT25L, and the Precision mathews PM-25v and PM-30v

[awetmore]

You might also consider the 6x26 knee mills (like the Grizzly G3102). These break down into sections that are about #300 or lighter, so you can get them into confined spaces.

I have a G3102 and it is a great manual mill for me. There aren't many around that are CNC'd though, if that is your longer term plan then you might be happier with something else. I like having the knee, the mass of the larger mill, and the overall quality. My only complaint is that the Y travel is shorter than I'd prefer.

I bought my G3102 used. You can find new ones from other resellers with the same design for less money than Grizzly is asking.

[hoss2006]

My shop is on the second story of a commercial building. This limits me in weight because I can't be hauling a 1000 pound machine up the stairs (and i'm not sure the floor would support such weight).

Clay

An RF45 on a stand with a vise and other accessories is going to weigh close to 1000 lbs.
The machine itself is around 750.
If the second story has a concrete floor you really shouldn't have to worry,
maybe check with the owner who might know the capacity.
People have put rf45's in their homes in a spare room.
I personally wouldn't, I would want the mill to be as stable as possible.
The g0704/bf20/pm25mv's would be no worry, I have one in a spare room,
they only go about 300 lbs.
If your sure the floor can take it, go for it, you can break the rf45 into manageable chunks to carry up.
Hoss

[talonosi]

An RF45 on a stand with a vise and other accessories is going to weigh close to 1000 lbs.
The machine itself is around 750.
If the second story has a concrete floor you really shouldn't have to worry,
maybe check with the owner who might know the capacity.
People have put rf45's in their homes in a spare room.
I personally wouldn't, I would want the mill to be as stable as possible.
The g0704/bf20/pm25mv's would be no worry, I have one in a spare room,
they only go about 300 lbs.
If your sure the floor can take it, go for it, you can break the rf45 into manageable chunks to carry up.
Hoss

I know you are a fan of the g0704, I have been looking at the PM30-LV. What do you think about the PM30?

I am leaning away from the RF 45 because of the weight.

Thanks for the suggestion on the small knee mills, they look really good, weight is my only concern.

[hoss2006]

I would have likely bought a pm30lv instead of my zx45 if they were available at the time for
the same reason, less weight to have to move but still big and heavy duty.
Hoss

[wizard]

I know you are a fan of the g0704, I have been looking at the PM30-LV. What do you think about the PM30?

It isn't so much what we think as what you will be doing with them. Seriously if your goal is to start a business these mills could be just right or a total waste of money. The mills need to fit the application.

For the class of mill they are, they are very good machines and good platforms for CNC conversion. Does that mean they are right for you - don't know. As you may have seen in the forums several people run ongoing businesses with these mills, CNC'ed or not.

I am leaning away from the RF 45 because of the weight.

The load bearing capacities of floors in commercial buildings can vary a bit depending upon original intentions for the building and then follow on modifications. In some cases an old building may have been retrofitted a number of times often with floors engineered for specific usages. For example a really old ice house locally had a second floor installed for blow molding machines, the floor was engineered for that purpose.

So don't dismiss the idea of an RF 45 clone simply due weight concerns about the floor. Getting the mill up there is another issue but remember these mills do disassemble and you only have to move it in once. An RF 45 may or may not be required depending upon your goals.

Thanks for the suggestion on the small knee mills, they look really good, weight is my only concern.

Yes, but maybe less than optimal for a future CNC conversion. I'm not sure if you have looked at Grizzlys web site but they have listed as "New" a couple of new mills in the class that has been discussed in this thread. Be careful though some of these are easier to break down into small parts than others. I actually like the knee type mills for manual work.

You always have the option of hiring riggers to move s machine for you. Slightly expensive yes but we'll worth it in the long run as a broken foot or damaged back can really delay putting a machine to use. When you are talking +500 pounds it is something to consider.

There is a flip side here too. I've run into a couple of guys that started out with CNC converted mills and then switched to Haas or whatever as soon as they could. Nothing lasts forever, and you really don't know what future demand will be so remain flexible.

[talonosi]

I've settled on the PM30-LV and am just pricing out the most basic tooling I need. I'm having a hard time knowing exactly what to get. What comes with the mill (I sent of an email to Matt but thought maybe you guys would know)?

Will the mill come with a draw bar for R8 collets or will I need to purchase one?
Collets or end mill holders?

Where to you suggest I buy the tooling? LMS? Grizzly?

Thanks!

[talonosi]

I think I need the following, but am open to suggestions and any guidance you can offer. At this point I'm going manual only.

-Vise
-Collets or End Mill Holder
-Parallels
-End mill set
-Drill Chuck
-Clamping Kit

Thanks!

[wizard]

I've settled on the PM30-LV and am just pricing out the most basic tooling I need. I'm having a hard time knowing exactly what to get. What comes with the mill (I sent of an email to Matt but thought maybe you guys would know)?

Your best bet for that question is the vendor.

Will the mill come with a draw bar for R8 collets or will I need to purchase one?
Collets or end mill holders?

You will likely need to buy a number of collets over the years. However to get started I'd focus on a few high quality units.

Where to you suggest I buy the tooling? LMS? Grizzly?

Thanks!

You can buy anywhere you want. Enco/MSC, Travers, McMaster-Carr, Grizzly, LMS and a number of others all are good to do business with. I prefer the businesses with the nicer online shopping sites.

If you are in a larger city don't foret about the local tool distributor shops. I'm talking the shops that cater to business or professional users.

[wizard]

I think I need the following, but am open to suggestions and any guidance you can offer. At this point I'm going manual only.

-Vise
-Collets or End Mill Holder
-Parallels
-End mill set
-Drill Chuck
-Clamping Kit

Thanks!

Those are the basic items and frankly the ones that are needed to make the machine useful. I would not skimp on the vice, drill chuck or collets. Especially drill chucks which vary widely in quality.

I'm not sure about your current tool inventory. However you will need a few hand tools, here is a short list:

1. Hammers; soft, ball peen and brass.
2. Micrometers, 0-1" at the least.
3. A combination square or double square.
4. A set of wrenches, metric and standard Allens, a few box/open end and others as needed.
5. Edge finders
6. Center drills
7. A 0-6" caliper
8. Files of every type.
9. Swarf and lubrication brushes
10. Drill bits, the recommendation here is to buy a fairly decent set and then upgrade the high quality for the ones used frequently.
11. Lubrication for the ways
12. Cutting fluids and lubes for the the material being machined.
13. Fly cutter or cutters
14. A shell mill.
15. Ball end mills, chamfering mills and other special purpose tools suited to your needs.
16. Deburing tools.
17. A dial indicator, stand, and bracketing

These are off the top of my head. You will have to adjust the list to fit your needs.