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I have a chance to buy a Harbor Freight Mill/Drill part number 44991 that has never been used other than checking it out and cleaning it up somewhat. I was debating if I should wait and spend over twice as much for an LMS mill with larger table, better motor and no gears to break and less noisy. cause the X2 I understand benefits from the belt drive kit which is over $100. And I do not know where or how much it would be to upgrade to a brushless motor one day like LMS has in the SX2. If if it is even needed really.
Or wait till I have room and can afford an X3, SX3 etc... I assume by the time I get a larger mill (IF) I wanted to sell this one I would loose much on it. Of course if I convert CNC like I want by the time I get a larger mill then this one would go nowhere anyway.
Currently I have a 7x12 Grizzly as well and it is new. want to do a cnc conversion to it as well and also a bed extension when I have room for it. Right no cause of my welder and tools etc. a 7x12 was all I had room for. The mill might be on a movable stand if I buy it.
Thanks.
If I had it to do over again, I would not have bought my x2. It's a cute little mill, but it is just too limited in it's work envelope IMO. By the time you spend money 'improving' it with things like a belt drive, epoxy fill, ect, you would have been better off just buying a 45 clone, or maybe this newer mill that everyone is raving about these days.
Just my opinion...
Here's my $.02 on it. That is an OK price for it, provided that you don't sink a ton of money into it. I'm not sure it's worth the $600 HF wants for it now. I have a larger BF-25 mill and I use it for most stuff but sometimes I need to slap a couple of quick holes in something or just trim off a bit of this or that where firing up the CNC is almost not worth it. I use the little X2 to take care of those jobs. I also used it for minor mods to the other mill that would have been unpleasant to hack at with hand tools but man was it a chore to clamp the work.
It does decent to square up stock for the other machine, or drill out the starting point, ect. However I got mine in trade for other goods with the belt drive already attached which really upgrades it's usefulness.
If this is to be your main milling machine then I would pass. As mentioned the work envelope is very constrained and tool clearance is as well as soon as you start getting past 1/4" drills. By the time you tool up and convert to CNC you're going to invest thousands into stuff outside the mill and I'm not sure $700 less spent on the mill is going to feel like a bargain when you a struggling to get clearance, work envelope, and clamping space.
The X2 can do lots of good stuff so It's not useless or anything, but it's seems like an exercise in ingenuity and perseverance in many cases. I started with that X2 and I can not imagine going back, even the damn lead-screw pitch as a manual machine was something to be worked around rather than being useful.
There are times I wish I had an RF-45 simply because it would be that much easier to get the job done but I think the BF-30, G0704, BF-20, and X3.... in that order, stand in a real nice band of cost/size/performance. Still small enough to not be a major challenge to work with and an order of magnitude easier to get your work done on.
CNC: Making incorrect parts and breaking stuff, faster and with greater precision.
Thanks. I appreciate the input. I was stuck in "should I snap up this deal while I can since they cost 599 normally" and "am I settling with this machine because of a good deal and going to spend too much upgrading".
The want of a mill now had me thinking about it, but I was afraid I would be too limited with it and soend too much upgrading it.
If you need one "now", that is probably as good as price as you will fine, but there are certain things you will need to do like stiffen up the column and I would recommend the belt drive. Later on, a treadmill motor conversion will be better than the stock motor. When I got done with mine, about all I have left of the stock mill is the bed, the column, the headstock, and the gibs. Everything else went during various upgrades (treadmill motor, CNC, KBCC motor controller)
If you can save up a little more, I would go with the X3 or something bigger.
I know I wished I had done that, but at the time, the X2 looked like it would be perfect for what I was doing. It was....but now I want to machine bigger items.
Mike
Your problem is determining what the value of this machine is, relative to your needs. Only you know what you intend to do with it. In any event if $350 is the asking value offer $250. At some point the tool becomes a reasonable value. You see personally I wouldn't pay $350 for it as it is too small for my projected usage. But get well below $300 and it becomes easy to find uses for the machine. At that price it could earn its keep as a drill press.
As to machine mods, well people might object to what I'm about to say but there is nothing on the market under $2500 that doesn't have short comings. It's the nature of the beast, you are buying machines built for certain price and weight points. Don't fool yourself about weight either, many of these machines are designed to be usable in very small or limited shops where weight is an issue. This results in compromises right out of the box. Your problem is selecting those improvements that are worthwhile. Also note that those improvements are not needed immediately, these tools often server their owners un modified for years.
I note at you are concerned about "loosing much" on this mill at some future point. My advice is don't sweat it. For $350 you should be able to get a dollars worth of use out of it each day you own it. So in a years time it is all gravy. Beyond that you should try for a better price anyways. Then you have to consider that the cost of this hardware will inflate drastically in the next few years, one only has to look at Grizzlys catalog to see this happening already. I'd go so far as to say if you are worried about future value you are in the wrong business.
Frankly I wouldn't buy this machine for a CNC project as there are far better small mills for that type of modification. A power feed might be worthwhile though.
So in the end the big issue is this, you need to think about your intended usage. If you can get the mill at a discount to that $350 and have interests that fit it's capability then go for it. It doesn't even have to end up being your primary mill, most shops are made up of several pieces of hardware some used far more than others.
Originally Posted by 20/20
I have a chance to buy a Harbor Freight Mill/Drill part number 44991 that has never been used other than checking it out and cleaning it up somewhat. I was debating if I should wait and spend over twice as much for an LMS mill with larger table, better motor and no gears to break and less noisy. cause the X2 I understand benefits from the belt drive kit which is over $100. And I do not know where or how much it would be to upgrade to a brushless motor one day like LMS has in the SX2. If if it is even needed really.
Or wait till I have room and can afford an X3, SX3 etc... I assume by the time I get a larger mill (IF) I wanted to sell this one I would loose much on it. Of course if I convert CNC like I want by the time I get a larger mill then this one would go nowhere anyway.
Currently I have a 7x12 Grizzly as well and it is new. want to do a cnc conversion to it as well and also a bed extension when I have room for it. Right no cause of my welder and tools etc. a 7x12 was all I had room for. The mill might be on a movable stand if I buy it.
Thanks.
There is a mind set on these forums where it is considered mandatory to upgrade a machine. It isn't mandatory at all!!! . Instead look at your current needs and then see if the mill fits.
Now I know this isn't easy to do, that is to try to fit a mill to you mental image of your needs. My point is this: at the right price this offer becomes decent no matter what your long term milling needs are. Oh never pay asking price.
Some other things to consider:
- Machine shops are made up of many machines with varying capabilities.
- If in the end you decide that a bigger mill is in order you can call this machine a drill press if that makes you happy. Get the price under $300 and it is actually competitive with many cheap drill presses.
- If you get into production of anything, sometimes the right fixture and a dedicated machine can do wonders even if your primary machine is CNC'ed. This is often referred to as secondary operations. Sometimes fixturing isn't even required. Either way it can make a big difference anytime more than one item is required and such operations require a tear down of a CNC setup or even a conventional setup.
- If you eventually want to CNC a mill, having a second mill to do machining with can be very handy in that conversion process.
- Someone already mentioned stock prep.
- Nothing is forever. Don't get wrapped up in what might be x number of years in the future.
Of Course it is! Joke!It isn't mandatory at all!!
I had an X1 and there was little that i could not do with it that i did not want to but at a very slow pace. I have now got a G0704 and it is great and sold the X1 for a break even price as i CNC'd it amd it had five years use.
To be honest the value of the machine is only going to go up as time goes by as prices of new machines continue to rise. Plus you have the value of using and making the stuff you want.
If i was to have my turn again i would still go for the X1L as it has more usable working volume than the X2 not that i don't like the X2.
The X1 has more usable work volume than the X2? In what aspect you referring to? I thought the X1 was smaller all around and would only be able to handle smaller material than the X2 can handle. The G0704 is more of what I want (or even slightly bigger), but do not have the room for it really and am not going to spend that much and buy some tooling as well.
And on price, that is 100% firm, not a penny lower or I would have bought it already. At $300 or less I would have it in the garage now probably. He wanted $400.
Thanks
The above is very important, these machines are not going to get cheaper, rather I suspect they will get much more expensive.
Why not just go for the G0704 on the first shot?
If i was to have my turn again i would still go for the X1L as it has more usable working volume than the X2 not that i don't like the X2.
My 2 cents.
I bought the x2 not having used a mill and it has been great to get my feet wet.
The work envelope is smallish but that all depends on what you need it for.
I thin kat $350, you could come close to breaking even most any time in the future.
On the other hand, if I would have bought a G0704 to start, I would be more happy now.
I still don't regret the $540 total it cost me with tax, shipping and the 20% coupon a couple years ago and I don't think I ever will regret it.
I think I would ask more specific questions of yourself (and the group) before you decide if it is worth the money to you.
What are you using it for?
Would it be a good second machine down the road?
the y axis has more travel and the width of the table makes things easier to mount.
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