need hobby mill parts and fixtures?

[ihavenofish]

so, i am trying to replace my 2 small cnc milling machines with one big one with more capability (power drawbar for one). ive found the machine, but theres one drawback... it costs money. always a catch isnt there?

so, rather than my usual playing with my cnc toys with no real concern of making money, i need a short term slightly different approch.

the machine im trying to get is a very large european beast. 28x16x14 travel, horizontal spindle. 5500lbs of iron. its ideal use as it is now is milling down big blocks of iron or steel up to 500kg, like perhaps small milling machine parts.

so to cut to the chase, heres the idea: i can mill mid sized iron or steel block parts for hobby mills. i will take orders tentatively and when i see things are moving in a positive way, ill take payment and were off and running. if you need something quicker than the few weeks it will take to get the machine installed, then this obviously wont be the service for you. once ive paid the machine off, i most liekly will not be offering this service anymore.

so, on to the details:
im not in this for killer profit, i just want to pay for my machine. so i will be charging a set small amount over materials and tools. it will be 2x the material cost, plus actual tooling cost.

so, for example, if you want a 6x18x1.5" t slot table in g2 continuous cast iron (like widgetmaster used to make), you take the part bounding box, add 0.25" to each dimension and multiply the cubic inches by $1.40. so $279, plus tools (in this case a share of a t slot cutter and face mill, and end mill, maybe $40). shipping is of course added on top. prices are in either candian or US dollars - both will be treated equally for now.

for ideas, i can do tables, columns, saddles - with dovetails or box ways or linear rail mounts. spindle heads, blocks, swivel tables and axis, motor mounts and all sorts of things that are normally too big or heavy to do on smaller hobby mills. theres also jig plates and fixtures, vise jaws and tombstones. ill also be able to do spindle shafts in 32hrc 4140HTSR steel (its a universal machine that can double as a pretty slick lathe with 12" or so of lenght).

so, if this sounds interesting to you, pm or email or just respond here.

ill throw up some example parts shortly, like tables, jigs, g0704 retrofit parts etc, things out of my "open source mill" thread..

[CaptainVee]

It seems to me this solves no ones (perceived) problem but your own. There is no uniqueness in what you offer and the way you offer it is more or less pointless to "the customer"

[ihavenofish]

and what is the problem you percieve needs solving uniquely?

[CaptainVee]

None, the problem that needs solving is the one that will make someone pay you.
The way you have set up the proposal does not solve a real problem.

If you were the only person in the world with a mill that might different but what you offer can be solved by so many people in so many ways, your offer is more or less irrelevant.

If you can offer something that is relevant, people will probably consider your proposal.

[bjones]

The problem I see is your lack of cash to buy the mill you want.
Can't get a loan?
So how many $10 "customer" investors do you need to buy the mill? 500,1000?
So I give you $10 as a deposit on a job I want done.
That gets me on the list. How many months/years go by before you get all the parts done for the "customers" ahead of me to make my part.
Doesn't sound like a wise choice when there are LOTS of places that can do the same immediately.
How about you take out a loan or sell off your equipment if you want an upgrade instead of this cockamamie proposal.

[ihavenofish]

so basically you are suggesting that because there are other machine shops in the world, noone should offer any services to cnczone hobby builders? 99% of this forum is redundant then to you.

so, heres the "problem": you need a heavy part and cant make it on your own.
heres the "unique" solution: you get somone from the forum to make it for you for a very low and easy to calculate price.

now before you say that 1000 people will do it for the same price so im irrelevant... no, they wont, and most shops wont mill gray iron at all.

so, whats wrong with trying to make a small amount of money while offering a good service again?

the only thing unusual about my plot is the fact that i am taking orders before i have the machine using a small deposit to weed out the time wasters. even that is not really unusual.

[ihavenofish]

The problem I see is your lack of cash to buy the mill you want.
Can't get a loan?
So how many $10 "customer" investors do you need to buy the mill? 500,1000?
So I give you $10 as a deposit on a job I want done.
That gets me on the list. How many months/years go by before you get all the parts done for the "customers" ahead of me to make my part.
Doesn't sound like a wise choice when there are LOTS of places that can do the same immediately.
How about you take out a loan or sell off your equipment if you want an upgrade instead of this cockamamie proposal.

hah, ok, perhaps you misread. im not taking $10 til i get enough to buy the mill. im taking orders til i get enough to buy the mill. the $10 is irrelevant. its merely there to prevent people from placing orders they never intend to follow through with. i could take a 50% deposit or even full payment up front - which is the norm - but because the machine isnt secured, i dont see that as the way to go.

as for how long it takes... i said that straight out. after 6 weeks if it doesnt work, people get their $10 back. 45 days seems like a optimum middle ground. if you have something urgent... um, yeah, this isnt the service for you, but you probably figured that out. the machine isnt all that expensive, so it may only take a week or 2 (ive got a few orders already fo jigs actually).

once the machines in place, things shouldnt take too long, i doubt ill be getting 1000 orders, or even 100, and the jobs as geared to hobby mill construction are simple to program and execute. if you want airbus landing gear... yeah, again, not the service for you.

as for loans and credit, why would i put a personal use machine on a loan, thats retarded. thats how you make economies colapse

anyhow, thanks for keeping this thread at the top, haha. hopefully you understand the idea a bit better now.

[CaptainVee]

The only reason for people to be a customer anywhere is because a problem is being solved for them.

If you think that a low price is a valid part of the solution you are mistaken. I do not mean to be rude here, but your proposal is irrelevant to just about anyone. It may be interesting to some people that you can mill gray iron but that is probably only relevant if they already have it. And then you are somewhere where the customer is not. Low price is irrelevant.

But it seems that you are only interested in your own ideas. That is fine. But you'll be disappointed in the outcome.

Oh, that part about taking out a loan is a good one. If you explain your plan to a banker He'll not see the point and not give you any money.
Edit: After re-reading your reply I now realise that you have no basic understanding of economics or doing business.

But good luck nevertheless!

[ihavenofish]

But it seems that you are only interested in your own ideas. That is fine. But you'll be disappointed in the outcome.

Oh, that part about taking out a loan is a good one. If you explain your plan to a banker He'll not see the point and not give you any money.
Edit: After re-reading your reply I now realise that you have no basic understanding of economics or doing business.

But good luck nevertheless!

actually, lots of people are interested in my ideas. my mom, my cat...

suggesting a banker wouldnt give money cause he wouldnt see the point in the idea confirms to me that you dont actually know what the idea is. im not here to bicker, but the idea isnt that complex and doesnt require an economics degree to comprehend.

need a special part for a mill or a tool? ill make it for a set price, for a limited time, as all i want to do is pay for my machine.

theres nothing else to the idea. if you think there is, youve read far too much into it.

[TXFred]

From the standpoint of a customer, here's how I see it.

If I want a part machined, I will go to a machine shop that is already set up and producing. The part will be done as soon as they can get to it on there list of work orders.

If I were to go to you for the same part. I would have to wait while you order your machine, receive it, set it up, deal with any problems. And then I have to wait while it comes up next on your list of work orders.

It makes no sense at all to give you the job when you don't have the mill yet.

If you had the machine up and running and were offering to do work with a ten dollar deposit and payment due on completion, that would be a different story.

But bear in mind, you're going to have to pay shipping costs on heavy parts, handle all your communication by email, and come up with a system to deal with deadbeats. And you have to do all that while undercutting the Mom and Pop machine shop that is two miles away from my house. There's just no reason for me to hire somebody far away when a local guy can do the same job for the same price.

This leaves you working for slave wages in order to get customers. And then you're just unhappy, overworked, and still not paying off the milling machine.

The better way to make the mill pay for itself is to design a single product that you can mass produce and sell. You gain all the tax advantages of the business, and you only have to make one item instead of many various items.

If you want to support the hobby machinists, I suggest designing a bolt-on column brace or a limit switch kit for the X2 mill. Those would sell like hotcakes.

Frederic

[ihavenofish]

If you had the machine up and running and were offering to do work with a ten dollar deposit and payment due on completion, that would be a different story.

that would be a very different story, and one that would be bad business.

payment is not due on completion, its due up front once the machine is installed. dont get hung up on the $10 thing, its just my way of pre-screening dead beats and time wasters.

i could do a product thing, but it would be wishful thinking more than anything else. a brace for an x2 might sell like hotcakes, but in the english that means 4 a month at $25 profit each. pointless to me.

i could make lots of products and put them up, hoping to sell a few of each, but why not just make it open and custom at that point. it will cost the same anyway.

[cyclestart]

im not taking $10 til i get enough to buy the mill. im taking orders til i get enough to buy the mill. the $10 is irrelevant. its merely there to prevent people from placing orders they never intend to follow through with.

So basically you're doing a bit of market research. It's possible $10 may also be irrelevant to the type of person that reneges on a deal worth $100's, something to think about.

as for loans and credit, why would i put a personal use machine on a loan, thats retarded. thats how you make economies colapse

If paid work can cover the payments the idea of financing isn't outrageous. For an individual who isn't writing down tools on taxes cash is king (seems to me anyway).

Edit/ Oh, you're asking payment before cutting. Wise move.