Sherline controllerand EMC2 for Monster Mill?

[JonRichard]

I have a new A2Z Monster Mill with the 4 TPI kirk leadscrews and am in need of steppers, a controller, and software. I'm considering buying everything from Sherline to convert to CNC.

This was not my original intent, when I first bought the machine I intented to get a g-540, Mach3, and 166oz steppers. however I'm so backed up with projects that I'm now looking to get this up and running so I can get started.

I'm sorry for being yet another newbie looking to be spoonfed but I am spread so thin and there is so much information that I fear I'll grow old trying to make a decision and feel a powerful urge to just make a move.

EMC2 has started looking good to me, Sherline is a great company and I would expect excellent support, couple that with a "turn key" package it seems I could do worse than the Linux based package that Sherline offers but I would very much welcome opinions.

[davidmb]

Hi Jon,

I have just recently finished upgrading from EMC2.2 to EMC2.3, fairly painless process, have also added a full range of home switches to my setup ( 750mm x 500 mm router for pattern making ), I am willing to give help if you get stuck with EMC. I killed my first set of stepper drivers ( terminal big bang ) through my own stupidity, currently running on a £35 3 channel driver from china, 3Nm steppers on x & y and a 1.14Nm on z. Controlling PC is an AMD1.2Ghz Athlon with cheap MSI motherboard 512Mb ram and an old ATI graphics card. ( mostly junk kit that wouldn't run the kid's pc games. IO is via 2 Sweex pci parallel cards. The new wizards that come with EMC are a breeze to use and once configured the whole lot can be made so that it starts automatically even from a compact flash memory device that will replace a hard drive, there is even a touch screen version available now.

[cyclestart]

my 2 cents fwiw:

I've never seen an A2Z Monster Mill before, I like it
http://www.a2zcnc.com/a2zcncmonstermill.htm
Sherline's 24V system should be plenty power-wise. No idea whether it's as smooth and durable as a Gecko set-up, not many Sherline owners posting on these forums. A G540@48V would be cool in a Tim the Tool Man kind of way.

Emc2 is great software. No doubt Sherline assembles computers that work well with the software. That's assuming you were looking at a system complete with computer.

[Fastest1]

I too have a Sherline that has every part replaced but the spindle by A2ZCNC parts. Extended x,y and monster z. I personally run a Hobby Cnc controller that was built from a kit. It works great. The G540 (I have 1 of those too) is very easy to connect and get operating. I have never run EMC though I have read good things about it. I run Mach 3 and when told what to do correctly, it performs well. What are you cutting? or what do you intend on cutting?

[TarHeelTom]

I'm running a stock Sherline mill and lathe. The mill has the cnc kit installed, the lathe has the cnc kit sitting there, but not yet installed.

I've had some minor problems with the Sherline drivers quiting on me. Sent them back to Sherline, they could find nothing wrong. Physically relocating the drivers seems to have solved the program.

The stock Sherline setup runs quite well for me. Only problem I've had so far is backlash. Had about 0.250" backlash in the X Axis for a while. That's now down to about 0.003"

EMC2 is an extremely capable controller. Most aren't aware, but it handles up to 9 axis straight out of the box. No one is yet using all 9 axis. The EMC developers assure me that when someone starts actually using all 9 axis, they will add the capability for a couple more.

EMC2 also has capabilities that most of us will never use. Aside from the obvious X Y Z A B C operations, it can do strange things. For instance: One machinist has a mill with a crooked travel in X. It runs straight as an arrow for about 2/3 the travel, then starts to curve. EMC has the capability to load in a table showing the error at various locations and compensate for the error.

EMC also has several different display options built in. It comes set up on the Sherline with a different display than most use, as the Sherline (usually) doesn't have limit switches, etc. There is a two more screens more commonly used on bigger machines, plus "Touchy". Touchy is a very nice display which allows you to use a touch screen display in lieu of a mouse and keyboard.

The downside to EMC2 is that it's not a commercial product, so you can't just call the factory and ask them to fix it. There is, however, the EMC forum.

Tom Wade

[sansbury]

How much more "finished" is the Sherline kit vs. the G540? With the Gecko, about the only thing you have to do is connect power and solder plugs onto the motors. I'm sure the Sherline setup is solid, but the Gecko drives are far and away the best I've ever used. If you wanted to save money, I will send a +1 to the HobbyCNC board as well. It's an easy build and hard to beat for running small machines on the cheap.

As for software, I've been using both Mach and EMC the past couple years, and I think EMC is going to start pulling away over the next couple years. The basic foundation of the system (Linux Realtime) is much better, and the amount of functionality is far beyond Mach.

The main shortcoming has been in the GUI and ease-of-use, where Mach shined from day one. But that's changing as the number of people doing stuff with EMC continues to grow. The Touchy UI is a move in the right direction, and I think the supporting stuff like wizards for configuration and g-code generation are showing a lot of progress. Unless I heard wrong, Mach is basically a one-programmer show, and I see it as having reached its final stage of evolution. If I knew Mach well and liked it, I wouldn't hesitate to put it on a new machine, but if I was starting from scratch, I think learning EMC is worth the investment.

[TarHeelTom]

How much more "finished" is the Sherline kit vs. the G540? With the Gecko, about the only thing you have to do is connect power and solder plugs onto the motors. I'm sure the Sherline setup is solid, but the Gecko drives are far and away the best I've ever used. If you wanted to save money, I will send a +1 to the HobbyCNC board as well. It's an easy build and hard to beat for running small machines on the cheap.

First off, I like Geckos, and in fact am installing them (203V) on my Bridgeport, and my Sherline may get a G540 in the future.

But the electronics portion of the Sherline is a finished product, not a kit. The motor mounts and motors have to be mounted to an existing mill or lathe, but the motors,motor driver and power supply are a finished product, ready to be plugged in. The G540 is ready to be mounted in a case and have a power supply added. Before I started doing cnc, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was needed. Couldn't find a place to ask questions. The questions I did answer never got answered. The Sherline answered a lot of questions very quickly. Would never have bought the Bridgeport if I hadn't already been through the Sherline experience. If i were starting a new machine today, from scratch, it would have Geckos.

As for software, I've been using both Mach and EMC the past couple years, and I think EMC is going to start pulling away over the next couple years. The basic foundation of the system (Linux Realtime) is much better, and the amount of functionality is far beyond Mach.

Haven't ever used Mach, but I agree with your accessment of EMC.

The main shortcoming has been in the GUI and ease-of-use, where Mach shined from day one. But that's changing as the number of people doing stuff with EMC continues to grow. The Touchy UI is a move in the right direction, and I think the supporting stuff like wizards for configuration and g-code generation are showing a lot of progress. Unless I heard wrong, Mach is basically a one-programmer show, and I see it as having reached its final stage of evolution. If I knew Mach well and liked it, I wouldn't hesitate to put it on a new machine, but if I was starting from scratch, I think learning EMC is worth the investment.

What you didn't say is that EMC is the product of at least 8 programmers (that I know of and have met) working together. It's not perfect yet (what software is?) but it's going strong and improving. I'm also under the impression that Mach is a one programmer show, but I wouldn't count him out. But having 8 or more guys to use as a sounding board really is a valuable asset. And, as EMC is open source, there exists the possibility of even more programmers getting into the act.

One of the EMC guys was telling us of a different (to the mill type guys) of a guy using EMC2 to control a water jet cutter. On the water jet the water spray fans out slightly. To get a straight cut, you have to tilt the nozzle slightly away from the work. This guy was using X Y Z to move the head around, and using A and B to tilt the head. Some interesting computations come into play as you finish a straight cut and want to go around a curve, changing the speed of X and Y as you go around the curve, and taking out the tilt in A and putting it into B.

Tom

[JonRichard]

Wow, I'm humbled by the number of responses i've received in such a short time, what a great bunch. Thank you all for taking the time and offering your help.

What are you cutting? or what do you intend on cutting?

I have very limited machining experience as all I do is aluminum, acetal (Delrin), and some stainless on a Sherline lathe with a milling attachment. My motivation for buying the mill is more about self education. I'm a welder by trade, but when I first produced something from raw material it opened up a whole new world for me.

I'll have to take another look at the hobby CNC site, but to be clear it's time I'm hoping to save more than money. This project has been sidelined for a year after having bought the mill

Tom Wade, thank you for clearifying. The allure of the Sherline package is the ability to go staight to work. I'm sold on EMC2.

I'm still tossed as the G-540 sounds so solid, if it takes not much more time and effort to go ground up for a controller build I may yet be persuaded to take the plunge.

Sounds like my shopping cart would consist of :
1 Gecko G-540
3 stepper motors w/ plug ends
1 computer with a Linux OS
1 power supply, (unless the computers power supply drives it all

If i'm on the right path this doesn't seem like such a chore, but as I've not done it before I could be completely wrong. I said the same thing to myself about restoring my 1962 Ford Falcon and what a mess that got me into.

[TarHeelTom]

Wow, I'm humbled by the number of responses i've received in such a short time, what a great bunch. Thank you all for taking the time and offering your help.


I have very limited machining experience as all I do is aluminum, acetal (Delrin), and some stainless on a Sherline lathe with a milling attachment. My motivation for buying the mill is more about self education. I'm a welder by trade, but when I first produced something from raw material it opened up a whole new world for me.

I'll have to take another look at the hobby CNC site, but to be clear it's time I'm hoping to save more than money. This project has been sidelined for a year after having bought the mill

Tom Wade, thank you for clearifying. The allure of the Sherline package is the ability to go staight to work. I'm sold on EMC2.

I'm still tossed as the G-540 sounds so solid, if it takes not much more time and effort to go ground up for a controller build I may yet be persuaded to take the plunge.

Yes the G-540 will take a little more time. Say a couple of hours. Not a deal breaker.

Sounds like my shopping cart would consist of :
1 Gecko G-540
3 stepper motors w/ plug ends
1 computer with a Linux OS

No. An old computer with a parallel port. You're going to download Linux from the EMC website. It's a special version of Linux which works with EMC2. If you can stumble across an old POS (Point of Sale, ie, cash register) computer, they are already in a very small case with not a lot of extra garbage. Or buy computers for $25 at yard sales until you find the right one.

1 power supply, (unless the computers power supply drives it all

Yes you need a power supply, and it's quite separate from the computer power supply. Never the twain shall meet. Keling has some nice power supplies, as do others. http://www.kelinginc.net/SwitchingPowerSupply.html

You also need (possibly? probably?) to visit the BoB store. You need to meet BoB. He's the guy that takes all of those wires from your parallel port plug and distributes them to the right places. PMDX is one source, there are several others. The G540 may not need a bob, I've never used it. (Actually, in studying the G540, looks as if BoB is built in.)
http://www.pmdx.com/

If i'm on the right path this doesn't seem like such a chore, but as I've not done it before I could be completely wrong. I said the same thing to myself about restoring my 1962 Ford Falcon and what a mess that got me into.

This will have a lot in common with a Falcon project. Enjoy.

Tom

[JonRichard]

Ya know, I came here often awhile back, laid low and searched. I never posted as I didn't want to be that guy and here I am in the end asking my newbish question. Rather than receiving the typical " hey, use the search fuction moron!" reply I get all the information I need to get me going.

I'll be back with a follow up, and when I feel I've learned something to pass along I'll return the favor and contribute. I'm glad to be here.

Tom, your a star, however your comment about the commonality between my Falcon project and this kinda stung. Can't you just lie to me and say it'll be all sunshine and daisies. I guess you could count me amongst the "some folks never learn" crowd because you've talked me into it you silver tongued devil.

[Fastest1]

You will be up and running with the Sherline stuff the day you get it probably. The others will take a little longer. I built my Hobby board in 3-4 hours. I contemplated and read the instructions for much longer. I delayed due to fear the construction of the board. I had never soldered a board before. I had soldered wires together but that was it. If money is no object, buy the Sherline. There is no doubt Sherlines are well built and supported machines. The work done with them is incredible at times. That all being said you will be longing for strength and rigidity in no time. Save your monies for the big stuff. You could buy a used Bridgeport for what I have in this Sherline.

[TarHeelTom]

Ya know, I came here often awhile back, laid low and searched. I never posted as I didn't want to be that guy and here I am in the end asking my newbish question. Rather than receiving the typical " hey, use the search fuction moron!" reply I get all the information I need to get me going.

I'll be back with a follow up, and when I feel I've learned something to pass along I'll return the favor and contribute. I'm glad to be here.

Better you post an ongoing build thread, and show us all how you're coming, and what minor problems you're encountering.

I'm still working on my "easy" upgrade to the Bridgeport, having removed the BOSS 5 controller, and installed a PC. The PC part works, latest holdup is that the lubrication system on the Bridgeport isn't working. Be rather stupid to put it back in service with no lubrication system.

See more on the Bridgeport/Falcon at: http://tomwade.me/tw/machinist/nm/

Tom, your a star, however your comment about the commonality between my Falcon project and this kinda stung. Can't you just lie to me and say it'll be all sunshine and daisies. I guess you could count me amongst the "some folks never learn" crowd because you've talked me into it you silver tongued devil.

Most of what I'm telling you is stuff I've learned in the last 6 months or so. Never have learned how to be an effective liar. But go for it! You'll enjoy the ride.

Also, plan to get away next June to Ann Arbor, MI, for the next cnc seminar.

Tom