looking for any reasons not to buy an rf45

[lost_cause]

ok, i've been looking and changing my mind for the last couple months on what i want. problem is i don't know exactly what i need, so i don't know what i want. i'm not proficient with any precision equipment, but i know that there are tons of things i can make to compliment anything i fabricate.

i've looked at rf31's, then bf20's and most recently rf45's were suggested. from what i can see, these are probably the most bang for the buck - inexpensive, fairly solid, decent size & power, and still small enough to cnc for a moderately reasonable cost. my plans would be to cut my teeth, so to speak, with this manually for some time, to get a better understanding and feel for machine tool operation, and maybe eventually cnc it.

is there any reason why this would be a bad choice? i've tried to read as much as i can, and i can't find anything that will do what these will for $1500 or less. any input?

[Teyber12]

I have a cnc x3 and if i could do it again id go with a rf45 for sure or scoure for a big used mill on craigslist

[photomankc]

The main reasons I didn't go ahead and go for it were:

- Space / Location - Getting it moved, even in parts is a major undertaking and would require lifting equipment I didn't have and it would have to get down to a basemwnt. Space was also a concern as I am really maxed out on room at present with a single workbech, a BF20 and a 10x22 lathe. There is no more room to be had.

- Conversion expense - As you said, everything about it is supersized and cost goes up. Already I'm looking at a good bit more than I originally planned for the X2 in the new plans for conversion of the BF20 type mill.

- Last and least was spindle speed. The low RPM seemed like a limitation to working with AL and I like using AL where I can. Upgrading the drive to something else adds even more expense. People seem to be doing just fine with it though so maybe that's less of a limit than I thought.


The first issue is the big one for me. I have few helpers and little good equipment for moving big heavy loads. I'd also have to tear down storage for other household stuff to make enough room to give it a proper footprint, stand and enclosure. Were that not the case I think the second/third reasons could have been overlooked.

[arizonavideo]

The only real drawback is the low spindle speed and the loud gearhead.

You can move the machine with two people if you take it apart.

You should still look at the Weiss 30 if you don't need the larger faster cutting of the 2HP motor on the RF-45. It will make a good CNC and if you box it the box will be much smaller than the 45.

If you often deal with steel parts that are large like 100LB or more then get the RF-45 but if your idea of a part is smaller take a look at the Weiss 30 size machines.

Good Luck with you pick.

I couldn't decide so I bought both... So far I use the little one more often.

[hoss2006]

You can move an RF45 by yourself, I moved mine in all by me lonesome.
Just need a little help from a pickup, crane and chain hoist.
http://www.hossmachine.info/RF-45_Clone.html
The G0704 was much easier by myself, just did a little wiggling and shoving
and used a dolly.
http://www.hossmachine.info/G0704.html#pics
Hoss

[Flenser]

If I were going to buy a single general purpose desktop mill today, it would be the G0704 rather than the RF45, especially if I was just starting out as I was when I got my 45.

I am assuming the ways on the G0704 are essentially the same as my G0705. They are much tighter than my 45 and require a lot less attention. When using the 45 manually I made a lot of part damaging, tool breaking mistakes that were caused mostly by incorrect gib adjustment. With the G0705 I routinely climb mill without thinking too much about the consequences. On the 45 I would avoid it if I could, or tighten everything down and gather my courage before starting if I couldn't.

I'm pretty happy with the G0705 mostly because it's bigger, but the G0704 will be a lot easier to CNC and will probably have multiple kits available OTS by the time you are ready.

Jeff

[photomankc]

Ok, I'm I weakling!

[pete from TN]

I have owned my Lathemaster machine now for nearly nine years... I used to own a shoptask 3 in 1 machine, I have also owned an Rf31, and a Knee mill.... All of these other machines are now gone, the Lathemaster is still here. There are good reasons for this. I chose to keep the 45 and convert it to cnc because it is a sturdy, heavy duty machine that just plain cuts..... It is not perfect, but it is the least problematic and most useful of all of the machines I have owned. The knee mill was nice too but the 45 with it's dovetail column and the ability to raise and lower the head is just too nice a feature. It also helps that is has some relatively decent travels. Once you go CNC the machine comes alive and is then capable of some really seriously cool stuff. Parts that used to take me hours of multiple setups and hand cranking are now effortless. The 45 is the best compromise available between the fullsize knee mills which are nice but very heavy and take up a lot more space and the smaller benchtop machines. It is my experience that this machine is capable of the vast majority of what I could do on my knee mill and is pound for pound the best value in a small mill... The next step up is the IH and clones and they are very nice but the cost difference puts you too close to a fullsize knee mill especially if you consider a used machine.

The 45 machines can be setup just like a small VMC with a full coolant enclosure and cnc control, basically anything you can do to a x2/3 or whatever can be done with the 45. The best part is that once you do this work what you end up with is a machine that really can move some metal instead of a smaller machine that while capable cannot take the kinds of cuts that are commonplace with the 45 size machines.... I think that while the cost of conversion is slightly higher, the end results are well worth it. I basically sold my knee mill because since this machine has been converted it just basically sat there collecting dust. Right now I am considering getting another 45 machine to complement this one.

Again, this is not a perfect machine and I have had the noise issues with the gear head( I fixed that!!) and the stock bearing blocks had some play in them but again that is all removed during the conversion process. The basic machine is what you are really looking at, the weight, the size, the available travels, that massive head(which can be a little bit of an issue until you get it sorted out) and the dovetail column all add up to a small footprint mill that is capable of large footprint jobs. Just remember one thing, and it took me three different machines to get this thru my head, you can make small parts on a large machine .....but you cannot make large parts on a small machine.... that is the reality of it... you cannot get past this fact.... you will eventually find a job that you want or need to do and your machine will not be big enough, my advice is buy the biggest, heaviest, most high quality machine your money can buy the first time, then cry about the added cost once..... but live with a bigger better machine for a LONG TIME>>>>>


In my opinion, a machine like the 45, with a weight in the 1250-1400 pound range, with a table about the size of the bridgeport series one machines and a quality belt driven spindle for a reasonable price would be the best home shop machine bar none.... They apparently make machines similar to this but nothing exactly like this that I have seen yet. The next step up is the IH< above that is the larger bedmills as seen in the glacern videos, there would be a real place for a machine of this size in a lot of home shops as well as small businesses in industry. Then once it is cnc, you would really have a nice machine then.... I can dream can't I..... haha

[photomankc]

Man, you guys don't follow directions too well.... He said reasons NOT to buy one

Hell you almost have me talked into it now.

[mattbesquare]

The rf45 is my first machine, I have a few complaints but the machine is solid, and when it is set up it is smooth as silk. All of the complaints I had with my penn tools dm-45 would be a easy fixes.. it waa just hard figuring out if it was a nachine or user problem....

Basically for the cost of an ok bridgeport you gett a new rf.... it it is for a ground foor, one person can set it up with a cherry picker no problem.

And cncingf it isn't much more than a smaller machne...

[ninefinger]

I've suffered with a small machine for a long time - a 3-in-1 and the super size RF45 I have ( Industrial Hobbies clone from Machine Tools Warehouse) is everything I could want in terms a capability. As much travel as a proper knee mill but I was able to take to pieces and move it to my basement.

My opinion is that this is the best compromise between rigidity and weight. The main drawback to a RF45 type machine is the lack of ready to go choices for cnc conversion. Microkinetics makes one - but seems a bit too pricey for my liking. Industrial Hobbies offers a kit for their mill, but delivery has been an issue lately and it too is expensive and only for their mill.

If your going to run manual for a while then the RF45 family is a great choice - the lower spindle speed doesn't matter much when your the one cranking the handles.

Mike

[gd.marsh]

As long as you can live with a Chinese tool - There are none!

My first mill was an X2 which can be a capable little mill up to a point. But I quickly moved up in size to an RF31 clone that I've used for manual milling for about a year now. Although the round column mills have the size & power .. That round column is a real pain! The square column on the 45's gives you the best of both worlds. Size & Function.

I recently purchased a ZX45 just for the purpose of CNC conversion. In my opinion these square column mills are just about perfect for a home shop. I really wrestled with buying a used knee mill rather than another 'bench top' mill. The two things that kept me from a BP or similar type mill: Most of the ones I found (that were affordable) were old production machines that were SHOT! .. and I finally just decided I wanted a tool that I could move myself w/o too much hassle.