NM-135 (KX3) spindle trouble

[slatronic]

Here are the 3 XML files I have used. The original I have messed with but I'm pretty sure it's back to default settings. The second and thrid are straight from my email so I haven't messed with those. I tried them to make sure things still were happening the same way. It is The second works perfect except CCW. Also there is no relay activity with second. The box is checked in mach3 spindle setup to disable relay compared to original and third. In the third they tried to use output 1 but the spindle works the same way. It just activates the coolant pump relay with spindle. Not ideal.

David, I tried your XML this morning. Same old same old. start/stop.

I am not happy with Novakon right now. Not only did I not get the exact specs of the machine I wanted but there's this issue. I was told the size issue would not be resolved until the end of March. I think I know why now. They have a new machine coming out then. I should have gotten my money back when I had the chance. I guess it's my problem now. The big issue we bought this to make money with not just as a hobby. It's just sitting there doing nothing for now. Having to baby sit the machine to make sure spindle activates isn't going to cut. One of the reasons I got the OK to go CNC was that it would be self sufficient once we have solid working programs. This way I could run parts and still work on other things while CNC was machining away. Also, Khai was great for purchasing the machine but the tech support is a little lacking. I have asked for wiring diagram a few times now and still nothing. I also havent heard anything back on issue in over a week. Sorry for the rant, I'm just frustrated cause I heard so many good things.

I can't say thanks enough to everybody here. I hope this thread in some way helps others. Hopefully I can post a solution here soon and I can forget this whole thing. you guys rock.

[Crevice Reamer]

I can sure understand your frustration. You need to get this machine operational.

You HAVE it operational with one xml--It just runs in reverse. That means the machine itself is sound.

Why not just reverse the motor direction with that xml? You could either activate the relay, or use Neil's suggestion to swap the direction wires. Either should enable chip-making for now.

CR.

[slatronic]

I got a chance to work on CNC for about an hour today at work. I loaded the second XML that worked except for CCW. I tried to run the relay as NO. I took the wire from the NC terminal and moved it to the NO terminal. Guess what. It went CW. BUT, it did the start/stop thing. I didn't change any settings. All I did was move wire. Did I need to change a setting? After that I moved wire back to the NC terminal and it worked perfect except CCW. I tried to start it at least 30 times and it fired up fine everytime. Just CCW. Normally it will do the start/stop within 5 tries. So its perfect CCW but not CW. I'm gonna go through everything this weekend. Record all settings and do a complete wiring diagram of whats there.

A couple quick questions. What if I just change the 3 motor wires around? U,V,W. Will that hurt things? Will it help things? Is this motor 3 phase? DONT want to let the smoke out. Hard to put back in. If my memory serves me right, if you flip any two leads of a 3 phase motor it will change direction.

I heard back from Novakon today as well. They said they are working on resolving my issue. They are also working on making up a wiring diagram for me.

THX

[neilw20]

I just compared second_good_CCW.xml with third_sameasfirst.xml.

The third_sameasfirst.xml has a different output for M3 relay. 1 instead of 2.
That'swhy it turns on the pump instead of changing direction.

Use second_good_CCW.xml and ONLY untick the motor relays box at top left of spindle setup window. Don't change ANYTHING else. It should work as CW, just like the wire swap I suggested.

SInce you your last post, I 100% surely will say that it will go/stop...go/stop .
The PWM decoding on that undocumented card has a problem.

OR

Use third_sameasfirst.xml and replace 1 with 2 for output for M3.
Don't change ANYTHING else. It should work as CW, just like the wire swap I suggested, and the pump should still work correctly.]

I just saw your post for the reversed connection.
There is a hardware problem with where ever that wire ends up.

DEMAND a CIRCUIT. Then post it.

While this problem exists you will never be able to reverse spindle.
To prove this, with the file that runs CCW ok, if you select reverse using M4 S1200 it will do the go/stoop thing. That proves it is a wiring/logic/hardware problem.

MAKE NOVAKRON FIX IT! and demand circuits. NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! is it?

[slatronic]

I started up the second_good_CCW.xml this morning. I tried running some M3 and M4 codes. This is without changing anything yet in settings. It spins CCW using both M3 and M4 codes. I then tried to uncheck the relay box to activate relay. It then spins fine with M4 codes (CCW) but start/stop with M3 codes (CW). I rechecked box and M3 and M4 codes both spin CCW fine. So, I think its official and there's something wrong with hardware/wiring/logic. It's runs perfect CCW.

I hope Novakon gets this figured out soon. I've been told I'm top priority. Still waiting on wiring schematic. How long should that take? I would hope that even if they didn't have one, that they could at least draw one up quickly. Heck, the guy that wires them should be able to do it from memory. Especially since the CD-100 controller is of their own design.

THX

[neilw20]

Wiring from memory? That is a worry.
High IQ's cause serious problems and flawed decision making because they are so cock sure that even the mistakes are perfect.
Measure twice, cut once.
I've been fixing hi IQ problems for over 40 years.

[ihavenofish]

Heck, the guy that wires them should be able to do it from memory. Especially since the CD-100 controller is of their own design.

THX

the guy that wires them is in a factory somewhere in china.

novakon will do their best to get you fixed up, but some things will take time unfortunately.

just keep poking at them till you get what you need.


as for whether this is hardware or not... i dont know. this is some pretty bizarre behavior im reading here.

[neilw20]

With PWM decoding and direction signals for spindle control, extra care needs to be taken to ensure that the spindle can't start inadvertently which is rather dangerous.
This can involve detecting that the direction has changed so as to ramp down correctly before reversing.
Some of this reversing logic is screwed up, hence the stop/start operation because normal start conditions have not been satisfied, and it stops again.

Changing the forward/reverse line should work correctly.
There is a design flaw in the hardware.
(IMHO) Mach3 can't cause this problem, and if it was a watchdog issue then you would have to hit RESET.
It has even been stated somewhere in some previous post (I think I read) that the reverse feature was not implemented/cut the wire or some such rubbish.

[slatronic]

Here's a bit of an update on the spindle motor issue. After spending a week or so talking with Novakon they feel its either the motor or motor control board. They sent me a wiring schematic and everything went to where it was supposed to. The motor and board should be here on Wednesday. Hopefully have it working by the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

[slatronic]

I think it's fixed. I replaced the motor and everything seems to be working great. It spins up both ways and no start/stop issues. Thanks to everybody that helped with the troubleshooting. Novakon settled the issue quickly once the motor was singled out. Now it's time to make some chips.

[David Da Costa]

I am happy it got fixed.

About to start cutting with mine also now that the enclosure is complete.

I got the flood cooling working yesterday.

David

[slatronic]

My NovaKON has never worked. Did you ever finish the wiring diagram of yours. I am working with Artura at CNC4PC.com who makes the Gecho controller that is also sending the analog signal to the spindle. I am only getting .022v or .055v instead of the 0 - 10 volts. My spindle is dead.

If you have a diagram... please post it. If you're positive it is good state so... if not sure state that too. At this point any diagram is better than spending hours on the phone with Rodney or Khai.

Thanks...

Here is a diagram I received from Rodney of their wiring. Kinda hard to follow but should help. I cant find the one I made. All I did was make a schematic of the C11G board and started tracing wires. Takes some time but needs to be done if you want to track things down.

[slatronic]

I found this in a PDF at http://cdn4.grizzly.com/manuals/g0619_m.pdf

They use it as a speed controller for a non-cnc mill. The photo of the XMT looks like the one I have in my machine. Page 33 the wiring diagram.

Is the board in the NM-135 driving a 230V motor because that what the wiring diagram shows for this machine.

I'm pretty sure that's not the same motor board. I think the motor on the Nm-135 is 300v.

[neilw20]

Those pictures are for a Brushless DC motor and controller.
The motor is 3 phase with a permanent magnet rotor and hall sensors giving feedback to controller for shaft position.
This type of motor is often used as a servo motor, with suitable control electronics, or a just as a variable speed overload proof motor.

The connections:
1. Top right with link. Emergency switch safety circuit. Turns on power relay near this connector.
2. connections (6) below that:
L,N live and neutral 220vAC
FG Frame Ground
U,V,W three phases to motor.
3. Single blue Not sure.
4. White connector on daughter board. Fwd,rev, stop go, speed control etc.
5. Green connector. Hall sensor wires A,B,C, +5v and 0v.

Things to note:
The order of the phases U,V and W must sequence the same as A,B,C. Reversing one of three phases to reverse the motor WILL NOT WORK. If U & V are swapped, the matching pair, probably A and B have to be swapped, but it maybe B,C or A,C. It depends on both the motor and the (quite possibly) random sequence the PCB designer used.

There seems to be an endless variety of this controller board.
This is yet another version I have seen - ALL DIFFERENT. At least 6 so far now.

I have something similar in my SX3.

It is important that ANY of the wiring is not shorted to ground accidentally as this will almost certainly cause destruction of something - even the motor. I have repaired one too.
Even the emergency stop wires can kill it.
The external circuit design principals are quite stupid, if not non existent.
Be careful of capacitors charged to 300vDC, especially if ES link is open. Ouch! for days, and if handled badly can blow things up too.

I have never seen a control circuit that works really nicely, though one may exist. I might make one one day, but only for the board that has the motorola chip set. Not this one.

My board has done 2000+ hours, but only after careful inspection for loose wiring, connectors, and NEVER using the emergency stop onm a regular basis.
Using ES all the time will eventually destroy the relay. There is often a large DC component in the current through the contacts.

[trauba]

Here's a bit of an update on the spindle motor issue. After spending a week or so talking with Novakon they feel its either the motor or motor control board. They sent me a wiring schematic and everything went to where it was supposed to. The motor and board should be here on Wednesday. Hopefully have it working by the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.

Could you post the wiring schematic please? Thanks.

[trauba]

Could you post the wiring schematic please? Thanks.

Whoops. I found your schematic a few posts down. Pls ignore

[buddy7]

hi, trying to find a schematic for a XMT_driver_1000, trying to troubleshoot controls, the control panel is not responding.

any help would be appreciated.

thANKS

[neilw20]

This circuit is close to the XMT_DRIVER_1000 I believe. Not my circuit, but I added the translations.
I do have a blown up one of these boards, and a new one. (not for sale)
This is my best guess. I don't have schematic of the breakout board used with the XMT series, but attached BOB will be close.

[buddy7]

This circuit is close to the XMT_DRIVER_1000 I believe. Not my circuit, but I added the translations.I do have a blown up one of these boards, and a new one. (not for sale)This is my best guess. I don't have schematic of the breakout board used with the XMT series, but attached BOB will be close.

Hi thanks, this helps. I do have the high voltage DC bus power and did check the regulators to the control chips. seems like this is ok. This drive is for Grissly Mill. the display works but the speed inputs (+, -) don't work and then I get an error. THe motor checks to be ok. My guess at this point is possibly the main control chip on daughter board. Does anyone know what has been a common problem with these drives? I'm considering just updating to a new drive