Weiss WMD30LV conversion project - Page 3


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Thread: Weiss WMD30LV conversion project

  1. #41
    Member LongRat's Avatar
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    That's a really good idea and I actually considered it. But I need the machine running soon, so I will hold off. But I am not ruling it out in the future. What do you think would be a good choice of rail for the X on this machine? Any good sources other than just checking Ebay for what comes up?



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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRat View Post
    That's a really good idea and I actually considered it. But I need the machine running soon, so I will hold off. But I am not ruling it out in the future. What do you think would be a good choice of rail for the X on this machine? Any good sources other than just checking Ebay for what comes up?
    I used 35mm Hiwin HGR rails on my DIY machine - it was about 300kg too, but those rails were severe overkill! I'm thinking about trying some 25mm rails next time. I got my rails and screws from Marchant Dice but it looks like there are a few other places in the UK that do similiar items these days - Zapp Automation looks interesting, though I haven't used them myself.

    Is the underside of the table milled flat along the edges above the dovetails? If not, I guess you'd need to find a bigger mill to mill the table, or come up with a clever way to have it mill itself! Or ofcourse, buy another table - didn't someone in the UK do that - I seem to remember reading about that on here?

    On an unrelated note - I don't suppose you know what size bolts hold the mill down to the table? I'd quite like to pick up some eye-bolts to make the lift eaiser once mine arrives...



  3. #43
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    35mm is much overkill on the z. 20mm is probably "adequate, but if you plan heavy lods, 25mm might be idea. the novakon nm200 has hywin 25mm rails on the Z, and they seem quite stable, i was milling 304 stainless on saturday with it and there was zero chatter.. eerily silent cutting actually. for reference, that machine is nearly 3 times the mass and twice the spindle torque of the weiss. its got dovetails on the table though, rails only on the Z.



  4. #44
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    Referring to the above picture, the horizontal sliding interface surface of the table is of course very flat. The corresponding surface on the saddle looks to be hand scraped. The underside flat surface of the dovetails is flat-looking but has been over painted. I can't make out any machining marks but I doubt it is ground either. Probably not flat enough to rely on, without taking the whole table off, inverting it and measuring the flatness. The sliding surface width is about 38mm though, so I guess you might be able to mount some rails on there.



  5. #45
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    I'd guess that if you were going for rails, you'd mount them to the sliding surface of the table, and then mount 4 carriages onto the saddle, so it sounds like everything is flat enough

    With my thinking hat on for once, I guess you could make a dovetailed fixture to mount onto the saddle to allow you to flip the table over and clamp it square to the X-axis for drilling. You could then slide it along by hand to drill your way along the X and then flip the table or crank the y-axis to drill for the second rail. You could even use the rails as the drilling template if you have a transfer punch.

    Not that I'll trying to sell you on linear rails...



  6. #46
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    I wonder how Opti manage to use 20mm screws in their conversion kit - perhaps they have pre-machined their tables to take them?

    http://www.optimum-machines.com/prod...-30/index.html

    One thing I do like is that they've bolted the Y-motor on the back of the column where it belongs



  7. #47
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    I hadn't spotted that they put the Y motor there. Pretty nice. They must have slightly different castings on the Opti machines than the one I have. The hole in the back of my column wouldn't fit a 20mm screw through it, and the back of the column doesn't look flat enough to get a nice mounting surface for a bearing block. It would certainly be neater, but it is a lot more hassle than having a front-mounted motor.
    I would be interested to see the differences between the machines, I get the feeling the Opti ones are just a little bit nicer in most areas. You do pay for it though.



  8. #48
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    I wonder if they really are different castings, or if they're just machined differently?

    That said, I did decide to take one of the X-axis handles off today - the Warco might have different castings to your blue one - my nut's got corners and I've got a couple of extra mm under the table!






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    2.5mm on the "as cast" surfaces is probably within the allowed variance on the castings.

    that said, there seems to be several casting suppliers for these machines, as well as different "versions" from weiss.



  10. #50
    Member arizonavideo's Avatar
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    It looks like the green cross slide is a bit thinner. If you look at the leadscrew nut pocket the metal on the top is vary thin. You can also see a ramp up to meet the table ways and the blue one is flat.

    I would say the green one is a few MM thiner around the nut.



  11. #51
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    Looks that way. My saddle is pretty much flat topped and level with the bottom of the table dovetails. Digits' is lower than the table dovetails by quite a bit. That will surely make the conversion a bit easier. Also the corners around the dovetails look sharper on the Warco machine, mine's more rough and rounded.



  12. #52
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    I took my whole table apart last night to photograph everything - I'd agree, there isn't much metal you could remove from the table to make room for bigger nuts.

    Oddly, even though my mill does have holes in the rear of the column and the base for the Y-axis screw to poke out the back, there's no hole in one of the ribs that reinforces the base, so you can't poke a screw all the way through.

    It did also occur to me, that it might not be too hard to just buy a chunk of iron and make a new saddle on the mill in its manual form...



  13. #53
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    Good point, but to be honest I'd rather go with your previous suggestion and just put some linear rails on the X, lifting the table a lot in the process. Better end result and probably less work.
    I checked my machine again last night, and I was wrong - you could get a 20mm screw through the back of the column. I didn't check the alignment of the hole with the current screw though, or if there were any ribs in the way.

    I haven't taken the whole table off yet. How much did yours weigh, and how did you do it exactly? I don't want to damage anything when the last bit of engagement drops out.
    Oh - let's see those photos too!



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRat View Post
    Good point, but to be honest I'd rather go with your previous suggestion and just put some linear rails on the X, lifting the table a lot in the process. Better end result and probably less work.
    I checked my machine again last night, and I was wrong - you could get a 20mm screw through the back of the column. I didn't check the alignment of the hole with the current screw though, or if there were any ribs in the way.

    I haven't taken the whole table off yet. How much did yours weigh, and how did you do it exactly? I don't want to damage anything when the last bit of engagement drops out.
    Oh - let's see those photos too!
    I don't know if it's the right way to do it, but I unscrewed both X-handles and removed the bearing blocks. There were only 3 sets of thrust bearings, so don't spend half an hour searching for the 4th when trying to reassemble like I did!

    I then used an electric screwdriver to unscrew the X-screw all the way - as I figured that if I droped the table on to it, it'd deform or shear right off. Then I just slid the entire table off - and I could just about lift it - I reckon it's heavier than my 40kg vice

    When reassembling, I removed the jib-strip and slid the table back on before slipping the jib back in. Watch out for the brass pusher rods between the table locks and the jib - they'll probably fall out if you turn the table over.

    To remove the saddle, you'll need to unscrew at least the Y-nut. Probably safer to remove both at once - but don't let the Y-one fall off into the base casting or you'll have to dig it out again!

    I'll happily post pics over the weekend - though they're nothing special.



  15. #55
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    Here are a few of my pics:

    Table off:




    You can just see the hole in the column and base blocked off by the rib at the back - I think the rib's what stops you cranking the table into the column.

    Saddle...

    Y-nut is bolted on through the slot in that dove-tail...


    Table - really need a wide-angle lens for this!





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    Hi LongRat - any news on your conversion yet?

    The wet, windy 'perfect-milling' weather led me astray and I've kinda spent my ballscrew fund on a DRO



  17. #57
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    Today my screws and bearing blocks all arrived. I'll document it tomorrow, with pics. Needless to say I am very happy with the parts received. I guess I won't know how good they really are until they are installed and working, but visual impressions are very good. The dimensions are spot on as the drawings I sent him, and the quality of the machining is excellent.
    I haven't been able to do anything much without these bits, now I should be able to make decent progress and hopefully have the machine running in a few weeks.



  18. #58
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    Ok, so here is the shipment of linear motion stuff I got from Linearmotionbearings. Remember more than half of this stuff is to build a CNC router, nothing to do with the Weiss mill project. The fact that all this stuff cost me only £650 including $200 USD in shipping cost is pretty amazing.

    1) Ballscrews - 16mm on X, 20mm on Y, 25mm on Z. I went with the 5mm pitch screws all round. All of the nuts have PTFE wipers at both ends and are ground on every face. They feel smooth and tight, and seem pretty nice. A note - if you go with the 10mm pitch as I did for the router, the nut is a lot longer. All of the end machining on the screws is very clean and the threads are all perfect.

    2) Bearing blocks. There's a pair of angular contact bearings in each drive-end block, these are Chinese bearings but seem nice enough by appearance. The blocks are variable quality, some have heavy tooling marks and some have more of a ground finish. There is some machining debris inside these blocks, and the bearings are open on the inside. It is ESSENTIAL to strip these blocks before use, clean all the crap out, then re-lube and rebuild. Not unlike the mill itself! Still, as long as you know this, well worth the price I would say.
    The free-end blocks are similar, but the bearings are NOT. One radial bearing in each, but these are genuine NSK. Really didn't expect that and it is a pleasant surprise.

    3) Couplings. Aluminium, helical type. Only $5 each, but pretty small and feel flexy. I can't see them handling the torques required for this build, maybe on a 12mm screw but anything bigger and these couplers might become the rigidity bottleneck. I'm not sure if I will use them.

    4) Linear rails. Only going to use them for the secondary Z axis, the rest are for the router. The runners have wiper seals at both ends and everything feels tight and smooth. These are crazy cheap, but seem good to me!





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    I'm glad the ballscrews seem good - if the bearing blocks are a bit iffy, do you think it might just be worth ordering the screws and then making up some bearing blocks myself?



  20. #60
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    No, the blocks are very cheap and the bearings themselves seem to be nice. For the price, it would be a great deal for the bearings alone - without the blocks. I don't have a problem with the blocks at all, just that you must strip them out and reassemble them before use. I actually found a big chunk of bamboo in one of the bearings! Also, mine were assembled the wrong way round too.



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Weiss WMD30LV conversion project

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