Milling Feeds and Speeds Calculator


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    Default Milling Feeds and Speeds Calculator

    Hello,

    Anyone know of a good (easy to use) and free machining calculator that I can download please. As I have looked at a few and well I think they have all been written by people that know about machining and are full of terms like: Surface Speed and Chip Load etc. These I guess are fine for people that are experienced machinists and have material specification and HP tooth loadings at there finger tips but I do not.

    Hence I am looking for a “Feeds and Speeds Calculator” for dummies, where you simple select the material type, machine type (mini router, small X2, medium X5, or two meter high Bridgport monster).


    Alternatively as I am a software developer that wants to do some light machining on wood, plastics and soft metals. I will write a free to all software application if someone out there that knows about the science of machining want to partner up with me. Basically all the user should need to do is to select the following:

    Machine Type.
    Material Type.
    Finish Quality: (Rough and Finish cut) ...Step Over...
    Tool: Size, Type, Material and Cutting Tips etc.

    Click the “Compute” button and out pops some table or even graph of recommended spindle speeds. Then click the spindle speed that fits with in the parameters of your machine and “hey presto” out pops the figures you need… Simple…..

    So anyone seen anything like this? Or are you interested in helping me write it (No Software development experience required)

    Many thanks IMK

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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    Hello,

    Anyone know of a good (easy to use) and free machining calculator that I can download please. As I have looked at a few and well I think they have all been written by people that know about machining and are full of terms like: Surface Speed and Chip Load etc. These I guess are fine for people that are experienced machinists and have material specification and HP tooth loadings at there finger tips but I do not.

    Hence I am looking for a “Feeds and Speeds Calculator” for dummies, where you simple select the material type, machine type (mini router, small X2, medium X5, or two meter high Bridgport monster).


    Alternatively as I am a software developer that wants to do some light machining on wood, plastics and soft metals. I will write a free to all software application if someone out there that knows about the science of machining want to partner up with me. Basically all the user should need to do is to select the following:

    Machine Type.
    Material Type.
    Finish Quality: (Rough and Finish cut) ...Step Over...
    Tool: Size, Type, Material and Cutting Tips etc.

    Click the “Compute” button and out pops some table or even graph of recommended spindle speeds. Then click the spindle speed that fits with in the parameters of your machine and “hey presto” out pops the figures you need… Simple…..

    So anyone seen anything like this? Or are you interested in helping me write it (No Software development experience required)

    Many thanks IMK
    You could learn what the words mean, they aren't that difficult. Surface speed refers to just that, the speed at which the surface of the cutter moves. The circumference of the cutter (Pi x diameter) multiplied by the RPM. There are plenty of tables of recommended surface speeds for various materials. The above equation is sometimes condensed to 4 times the surface speed divided by the cutter diameter. Look up your material in the chart plug in surface speed and diameter and you get spindle RPM.
    Chip load is the amount removed in a single bite, and depends on RPM, feed rate and number of flutes. It's not that difficult to work out either.



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    escott76 many thanks for your reply.

    But that was just the sort of reply I expect and really wanted to avoid. As I am sure you know the web is full of mis-information and techno babble and endless charts on site that contradict each other and forums where question are asked and none answers are returned.

    For example on another forum someone has asked:

    Question
    I was wondering about what chip load is.

    Reply
    You can determine your chip load or figure your speeds and rpm to target the proper chip load with the following formulae.
    Chip load = Feed rate / (RPM * # of Cutting Edges)
    Feed rate = RPM * Cutting Edges * Chip load
    RPM = Feed rate / (# of cutting edges * Chip load)
    Mmmmm I now know how to calculate it but I really still don’t know what its significance is and its relevance.

    So if you know and truly understand these concepts and know where to find reliable information on the web how about we combine our skills to develop a layman’s guide to milling.

    Again many thanks for your help

    IMK



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    Hello,


    Hence I am looking for a “Feeds and Speeds Calculator” for dummies, where you simple select the material type, machine type (mini router, small X2, medium X5, or two meter high Bridgport monster).

    its not as easy as that ,

    each company has its own specs on how fast their endmills should be ran in a particular material , most companies will give a chart showing the sfm for each material , talk to your tool retailer , other than that you'll only get other peoples guesses and they may be an educated guess but then maybe not

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    If you send me an email address via P.M. I can send you one.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    its not as easy as that ,

    each company has its own specs on how fast their endmills should be ran in a particular material , most companies will give a chart showing the sfm for each material , talk to your tool retailer , other than that you'll only get other peoples guesses and they may be an educated guess but then maybe not
    Yes it is that easy!

    We just need to find what easy is? and bring into the public domain a nice easy to use software package that is a good dummies guide.

    For example; yesterday I designed a 45mm dia. smiley face that is 3mm deep. I milled it out off hard plastic with a carbide 3mm bull mill with S & F that I have used before for other jobs on plastics. Then this morning I tried to mill it out of aluminium with S & F that I calculated from a site that published a list of material chips loads. And well somewhere during that third pass (0.5mm step) of the roughing cut the tool broke! Not a big expense but a delay in the job as I have to wait a few days now for a new tool and then what? Take a guess and half the F & S until the job no longer breaks tool. No, there has to be a better way of doing this! Somewhere out there is the machining knowledge base (man or woman) I am looking for to help put together the software tool that I seek.

    Again many thanks for your input.
    IMK



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    Yes it is that easy!

    We just need to find what easy is?
    IMK

    your going to need to do this for a while before you can understand

    have you looked at various manufacturers and compared sfm on the variety of materials with the variety of tools available
    have you taken into consideration the different coatings , helix's , grain and other tooling geometry's , all these things play a role in how these companies determine how fast the tools should run , this is why each manufacturer supplies a chart , manufacturer quality plays a big role in the determined speeds and feeds
    you may run a tool for weeks on a job then take a tool from another company and destroy it in minutes , its that simple
    you can create a calculator based on the lowest manufacturers values then at least you can create something that's on the safer side of dangerous , but then you'll destroy better tooling because they are not running at their proper speeds
    generally if you keep within the manufacturers specs then your tool will be safe under normal machining , but if you run above or below those specs your running the risk of disaster

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    your going to need to do this for a while before you can understand

    have you looked at various manufacturers and compared sfm on the variety of materials with the variety of tools available
    have you taken into consideration the different coatings , helix's , grain and other tooling geometry's , all these things play a role in how these companies determine how fast the tools should run , this is why each manufacturer supplies a chart , manufacturer quality plays a big role in the determined speeds and feeds
    you may run a tool for weeks on a job then take a tool from another company and destroy it in minutes , its that simple
    you can create a calculator based on the lowest manufacturers values then at least you can create something that's on the safer side of dangerous , but then you'll destroy better tooling because they are not running at their proper speeds
    generally if you keep within the manufacturers specs then your tool will be safe under normal machining , but if you run above or below those specs your running the risk of disaster

    So here we are at the sort of impasse that I expect from the question I have asked.

    So let me ask you one more simple question please. You have an important job that needs to be done TODAY, and sitting in your tool draw is the only tools size shape for the job. Unfortunately for all of life reasons you can not get access to the tools precise specifications. So do you:

    (A) look at the specifications of three similar tools and take the ((a+b+c)/3) mean and get of with the job.

    Or.

    (B) Be pedantic and give up the job because you don’t have the precise specification.

    If you are an (A) person then I believe that you are the help that I need to push my project forward. If you are a (B) person then thank you very much for your input and I shall search on for Mr or Mrs (A)

    IMK



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    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    If you send me an email address via P.M. I can send you one.
    Al.

    Hello Al,

    And many thanks re my question and I have PM you as requested.

    IMK



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    Hi, being new to machining myself I cant help. BUT I can say that I would love to have the kind of tool you seem to want to develop.

    I have searched everywhere for some tool that just asks the type of material and the size and type of endmill and then tells you the dept of cut and feeds etc. you can use with that tool and that material.



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    Quote Originally Posted by daanmuller View Post
    Hi, being new to machining myself I cant help. BUT I can say that I would love to have the kind of tool you seem to want to develop.

    I have searched everywhere for some tool that just asks the type of material and the size and type of endmill and then tells you the dept of cut and feeds etc. you can use with that tool and that material.
    Hello daanmuller and many thanks for the reply.

    Yes it would be nice but I think there are (and as within all schools of engineering) there are those that wish to keep it a dark science so they can sound impressive when it comes to lowering themselves to talk to the great unwashed.

    As for me well my school is electronics and I don’t think I have such a vice as I always try to be constructive. Lets face it how many people understand the working of a TV, but the engineer did a great job of making it accessible to all.

    Anyway let us see what AL sends through as has some software he said he would send me. (See further down the posting) Ask him and he maybe really has something.

    Good luck in your quest.

    IMK



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    Hello,

    Anyone know of a good (easy to use) and free machining calculator that I can download please. As I have looked at a few and well I think they have all been written by people that know about machining and are full of terms like: Surface Speed and Chip Load etc. These I guess are fine for people that are experienced machinists and have material specification and HP tooth loadings at there finger tips but I do not.

    Hence I am looking for a “Feeds and Speeds Calculator” for dummies, where you simple select the material type, machine type (mini router, small X2, medium X5, or two meter high Bridgport monster).


    Alternatively as I am a software developer that wants to do some light machining on wood, plastics and soft metals. I will write a free to all software application if someone out there that knows about the science of machining want to partner up with me. Basically all the user should need to do is to select the following:

    Machine Type.
    Material Type.
    Finish Quality: (Rough and Finish cut) ...Step Over...
    Tool: Size, Type, Material and Cutting Tips etc.

    Click the “Compute” button and out pops some table or even graph of recommended spindle speeds. Then click the spindle speed that fits with in the parameters of your machine and “hey presto” out pops the figures you need… Simple…..

    So anyone seen anything like this? Or are you interested in helping me write it (No Software development experience required)

    Many thanks IMK
    The Speed and Feed Wizard in Mach 3 is about as easy as a newbie can get it.
    They input their machines Max rpm so the calculations are based on their machine.
    The only "techno babble" they need to know is Chip Load Per Tooth.
    The thickness of a chip that is removed by one cutting edge of the tool.
    This is provided by the manufacturer of the endmill they wish to use such as this typical chart provides.
    "Machine Type" will only vary the DOC (Depth Of Cut) which most calculators don't provide because of the vast sizes and rigidity of the equipment out there.
    If someone can't be bothered to learn even the basics of machining then maybe this isn't the hobby for them.
    Hoss

    Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here. - Roy Batty -- [URL]http://www.g0704.com[/URL]


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    Have a look at the trial version of Mepro here:

    http://mrainey.freeservers.com

    There really are many many variables, all interrelated and not necessarily linear.

    Even with many of the factors input it still only puts you in the ballpark and then you have to adjust to suit the unknowns, which means you need to understand whats going on anyway.

    The less number of variables you input the further you are from the truth. To few variables and it will lie to you nine times out of ten.

    I think if a "wam bam thank you mam" calculator were of practical use it would already be out there.

    Good luck any way
    Phil



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    You can try this website.
    Lots of info and easy to use.

    custompart.net


    Timothy



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    So let me ask you one more simple question please. You have an important job that needs to be done TODAY, and sitting in your tool draw is the only tools size shape for the job. Unfortunately for all of life reasons you can not get access to the tools precise specifications. So do you:

    (A) look at the specifications of three similar tools and take the ((a+b+c)/3) mean and get of with the job.

    Or.

    (B) Be pedantic and give up the job because you don’t have the precise specification.

    If you are an (A) person then I believe that you are the help that I need to push my project forward. If you are a (B) person then thank you very much for your input and I shall search on for Mr or Mrs (A)

    IMK

    anyone working in the field will have experienced this at some point or other and would make an educated guess based on experience .

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    So let me ask you one more simple question please. You have an important job that needs to be done TODAY, and sitting in your tool draw is the only tools size shape for the job. Unfortunately for all of life reasons you can not get access to the tools precise specifications. So do you:

    (A) look at the specifications of three similar tools and take the ((a+b+c)/3) mean and get of with the job.

    Or.

    (B) Be pedantic and give up the job because you don’t have the precise specification.

    If you are an (A) person then I believe that you are the help that I need to push my project forward. If you are a (B) person then thank you very much for your input and I shall search on for Mr or Mrs (A)

    IMK
    Like Dertsap said, we all run into this and usually you will start out slow and increase the feeds and speeds in 10% increments while listening and watching the cut.

    It boils down to experience.

    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by daanmuller View Post
    Hi, being new to machining myself I cant help. BUT I can say that I would love to have the kind of tool you seem to want to develop.

    I have searched everywhere for some tool that just asks the type of material and the size and type of endmill and then tells you the dept of cut and feeds etc. you can use with that tool and that material.
    Hello daanmuller and many thanks for your reply.
    Well I have a look at the downloaded software and the how to web site and well I think again these tools are designed by and for people that know what they are doing when it come to machining and have little to none educational value in them.

    When it comes to cnc machining from what I have seen there are two or three software layers or levels. CAD/CAM plus Machine Control, or CAD plus CAM plus Machine Control.

    And well I spent months looking at CAD/CAM and CAD plus CAM solutions and well there are some crap products out there that I have spend a days on trying to understand and well just simply given up as they where so poorly thought through. Or products in the same vain that are design by professionals for professionals, very expensive and just full of parameters like “Approach angle“ etc These I am sure are perfect for those who have made machining there life’s work and studied hard at college for years but no dam use to me at any price.

    So after months of review and evaluation I have come down to Alibre Xpress for my CAD. Really nice, very helpful forum and the best part is it is free.

    For machine control I think Mach3 is very much up to the mark and sometimes over it for my simple needs. Good support and documentation fairly easy to setup and does what is says on the box.

    For the CAM well I have to say it is a toss up between Cut3D and MeshCam as both lead you the steps necessary to turn your “Part” or “Picture” into machine control code. As both seem to assume the user knows little or nothing about machining up a part and both take you through the process in simple screen by screen steps. Although I feel they both lack the sophistication to produce stealth fighter turbine blades. That said I think these two packages are the way ahead in the CAM business and it would be nice to see some big buck investment behind the people that are architecting them as they have the “make it assessable” to all users mindset. Unlike there expensive counterparts that seem to think that the more knobs there are to twiddle equates to the more I can charge for it! However what they haven’t figured is that there produces become unusable without a one or two week class and therefore there market has suddenly become very narrow.

    So there needs to be a forth software layer! Tooling and machining calculator.

    Which really brings me back to why I started this thread in the first place and that is to find/make some software that makes tool selection and usage accessible to all. Like Cut3D and MeshCam make CAM accessible to all.

    So sitting in my bath this morning I was thinking about what I have learnt about tooling in my recent months of looking at tool parameters and speed & feeds etc. All of which seem to hidden behind different ways of measuring them like feet per hour and millimetre per second etc. So what I think the tool manufactures or some ISO committee needs to do is to boil there specifications down to two parameters:

    (a) Tool Material Suitability and (b) Tool Material Cut Ability.

    (a) Is Green for Go, shading through Amber for can if you really need to, then Red for disappointment, expense, and possible to trip to hospital.


    (b) Is zero to one decimal scale based on today’s technology best available tool for the job, thus in the future better tools become one plus some decimal. This zero through one scaling will I guess be meters per second relative. So it is aligned with the rest of modern science and not on some antiquated measuring system. This should then be directly translatable into Feed Rate, Plunge Rate and spindle RPM.



    Finally:

    Start up ToolCalc.
    Select your material.
    Select from you tool db the best Green/Amber tool you have.
    Set your systems (mills) maximum spindle RPM and Feed Rate.
    And Hay Presto a nice little graph pops up with RPM, Feed and Plunge curves.
    Then simply click the parameter curve point that best fits what you need, in term of time and job finish/quality etc.

    So does ToolCalc already exist? If so please tell me where I can get it, if not and you have the machining/tooling knowledge spec it out and I will write it.

    Many thanks for all your input.

    IMK


    PS For those of you that are wondering what has sparked off this thread well it comes do to me (as amateur machinist) being asked by my partner to make a couple of Play Doh moulds for her class.

    So I created up my first, a nice smiley face and milled it out of plastic and it worked so well that I decided to make another out of Aluminium. So I went to a popular software package and computed the Aluminium Feed rate, recomputed the tooling path/G code and loaded it into my mills control software. I set the job off and well somewhere during the third pass of the 0.5mm step down per passed my nice new 3mm bull nose carbide tool broke. Why I simple don’t know. Was the Feed rate or the Plunge rate or the RPM somewhere in the Amber to Red region of the graph?

    Take a look and let me know please.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Milling Feeds and Speeds Calculator-face-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    Hello,

    Anyone know of a good (easy to use) and free machining calculator that I can download please. As I have looked at a few and well I think they have all been written by people that know about machining and are full of terms like: Surface Speed and Chip Load etc. These I guess are fine for people that are experienced machinists and have material specification and HP tooth loadings at there finger tips but I do not.

    Hence I am looking for a “Feeds and Speeds Calculator” for dummies, where you simple select the material type, machine type (mini router, small X2, medium X5, or two meter high Bridgport monster).


    Alternatively as I am a software developer that wants to do some light machining on wood, plastics and soft metals. I will write a free to all software application if someone out there that knows about the science of machining want to partner up with me. Basically all the user should need to do is to select the following:

    Machine Type.
    Material Type.
    Finish Quality: (Rough and Finish cut) ...Step Over...
    Tool: Size, Type, Material and Cutting Tips etc.

    Click the “Compute” button and out pops some table or even graph of recommended spindle speeds. Then click the spindle speed that fits with in the parameters of your machine and “hey presto” out pops the figures you need… Simple…..

    So anyone seen anything like this? Or are you interested in helping me write it (No Software development experience required)

    Many thanks IMK
    Unfortunately, what you want to do, can't really be done in any generic sense. The basic calculations are trivial, but they will get you nothing more than a starting point that may, or more likely may not, be reasonable. Every machine and every cutter is different. Until you get enough experience to be able to "read" how it's doing, and know how to adjust speed, feed, DOC, etc., no chart or calculator will give you more than a starting point. I can send you a spreadsheet that does that much, but the only way to know what really works is to spend a LOT of time trying different scenarios, and seeing what works best for you, on your machine, and your workstyle.
    I've spent a ridiculous amount of time understanding how to get the most out of my machine, and finally ended up using a spreadsheet and a custom program to generate all my tool parameters. But, what works for my machine, will almost certainly be completely wrong for yours. And the "fixes" are often counter-intuitive - setting RPM too high is just as bad, if not worse, than setting it too low. Setting chipload/feedrate too low is often worse than setting it too high. But, you won't know how to tell what to adjust and how, without learning it yourself. And until you do that, you'll ruin a lot of tools. There is no magic bullet for this one....

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post
    escott76 many thanks for your reply.

    But that was just the sort of reply I expect and really wanted to avoid. As I am sure you know the web is full of mis-information and techno babble and endless charts on site that contradict each other and forums where question are asked and none answers are returned.

    For example on another forum someone has asked:

    Question
    I was wondering about what chip load is.

    Reply
    You can determine your chip load or figure your speeds and rpm to target the proper chip load with the following formulae.
    Chip load = Feed rate / (RPM * # of Cutting Edges)
    Feed rate = RPM * Cutting Edges * Chip load
    RPM = Feed rate / (# of cutting edges * Chip load)
    Mmmmm I now know how to calculate it but I really still don’t know what its significance is and its relevance.

    So if you know and truly understand these concepts and know where to find reliable information on the web how about we combine our skills to develop a layman’s guide to milling.

    Again many thanks for your help

    IMK
    Sadly there are no shortcuts in life. Connecting a computer to a machine tool does not enable you to skip things like knowing what you are doing. No computer program is going to magically come up with the right settings.
    In the "old days" you apprenticed with someone who "knew what he was doing", some did and some didn't. And it was the only way.
    Now you have a tremendous amount of information in books, and yes on the internet. Every one of those sources has some good things to say and some bad. You always have to filter.
    What you want "a layman's guide to milling" doesn't exist, because in order to become proficient in it you actually have to invest a good deal of time learning. There are no shortcuts. Spend the time to learn what you need the right way, there are more sources than ever. There is a reason why good craftsmen used to be respected and well paid, it's a lot of work to become good at your craft. Speeds and feeds are just the tip of the iceberg.



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    Quote Originally Posted by IMK1230 View Post

    So I created up my first, a nice smiley face and milled it out of plastic and it worked so well that I decided to make another out of Aluminium. So I went to a popular software package and computed the Aluminium Feed rate, recomputed the tooling path/G code and loaded it into my mills control software. I set the job off and well somewhere during the third pass of the 0.5mm step down per passed my nice new 3mm bull nose carbide tool broke. Why I simple don’t know. Was the Feed rate or the Plunge rate or the RPM somewhere in the Amber to Red region of the graph?

    Take a look and let me know please.
    Yes it was definitely in the red zone.
    at only 1200 rpm (as it seems to say in the pic) you should have run a max feedrate of 61 mm/min not 335 mm/min.
    What is your machines max rpm?
    If you use .025 mm for a chip load for aluminum, (.001 in. for us yanks)
    335 mm/min requires 6600 rpm.
    Did you use any oil/coolant?
    Looking at the finish and the appearance of chip welding on the tip of the endmill, I'm guessing no.
    Either problem could cause the endmill to snap.
    You new guys are gonna HAVE to make an effort learn some things to be able to successfully run your own mill, it's not rocket science.
    Hoss

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Milling Feeds and Speeds Calculator-mach-speed-feed-jpg   Milling Feeds and Speeds Calculator-mach-speed-feed002-jpg  
    Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here. - Roy Batty -- [URL]http://www.g0704.com[/URL]


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