emco pc mill 50 & similar

[UUU]

I've been asked in a PM to show some pictures of my retrofit. It seems like a good time, but my wife has lent the camera to someone, so these are taken with a phone - I'll try and get some better ones later.

Pitcture 1 shows the front, all standard looking here, as you can't see the new steppers under the covers. Original spindle motor. Aluminium swarf in evidence, although I've found cast iron, brass and steel perfectly OK to cut.

Picture 2 shows round the back - I need to tidy up the loose cables, but it's all working. You'll see I have re-used the emco circuit board holders, but none of the original electronics remains. The left hand one just tidies up the VFD for the spindle. This is a Mitsubishi S500 that I got second-hand on ebay. The middle one holds four Gecko drives, mounted on an aluminium plate, with outputs wired to the original sockets, so the steppers can be pugged in. The right-hand holder supports the breakout board, a PMDX with a sub-board to control the spindle VFD. Again this is wired to the sockets on the emco plate, to permit easy unplugging. The breakout board supports two parallel ports, I don't need any extra outputs, but I'm using the inputs for an MPG and switches to control which axis is jogged, and the jog speed. I suspect If I did this again, I'd use an all in one Gecko G540. Not that I'm unhappy with what I've got, it would just make it easier, that's all. What you can't see to the left of the shot is the power supply section - this is all original and supplies the 240V for the VFD and the breakout board, together with 24V for the Geckos. I know they can take more volts, but I'm quite happy with the speed I'm getting from this set up - it's only a small machine.

Picture 3 shows the new Y-axis stepper. You can see how it's mounted onto the original motor support plate. This was very easy: it's rotated anti-clockwise slighly from the original motor position, and new mounting holes drilled and tapped. You can see one of the original holes in the plate to the left of the lowest mounting screw on the motor. As noted earlier in this thread, in the UK I could get motors with a 6mm shaft, so the toothed pulley was an easy swap from the old motors. Each pulley was shortened slightly (at the boss end) and cross-drilled through pulley and shaft, and secured with the original roll-pins. All the motors were fitted in this way. Cables are new, shielded. You can see that the motor had shafts both sides - I've sawn off the spare. Right at the top of the photo, you may be able to see the axis limit switch, this is as original. All three axes limits are now wired in series and are also acting as home switches. The encoder switches have been removed.

I'm running Mach3 on an old PC. I'm 100% happy with this and it has the advantage of being the same program as a friend uses, so we can help each other out. And I'm more familiar with Windows than Linux. If I did it again, I'd have a serious look at EMC2.

[RandEE]

I have a similar story to many on this thread. I recently purchased a PC Mill 50. I thought I could figure out a way to get it going without the board. I have helped people get started on mach3 so I hoped I could do that. After carefully reading this entire thread I am a lot more pessimistic about it.

First, the easy way out, does anyone have a EMCO rs485 board for cheap?

Secondly... Isn't there anyway we can emulate the output of the EMCO board?Would be awesome if we could develop some sort of solution to this problem. It's just a serial connection, doesn't that mean we can send the same characters and get the same result.

Also, Isn't there a controller board that would work with mach3 for example and still use the same motors?

Lastly, those who have retrofitted their PC 50 Mills, what did it cost to do it?

I've got it now, and I have to figure out what to do!

Thanks for any input!
RandEE

[Randy Forbes]

Getting RandEE's post notice, and taking a quick glance through the thread reminds me that ALL my pictures have been moved onto a new server/web address. I just don't have enough time in my life to edit some 20,000 posts over various message boards, but here's the link to the Emco folder:
Emco_PC_Turn/Mill_50s

[RandEE]

Thanks for the pics! Very nice looking shop and system you have.

Now you are still using the EMCO RS485 board and original hardware right?

Do you like your mill?

I know Randy got a great deal on his machines, but another question I might for everyone is what is a PC MILL 50 worth? Without the EMCO board? or completely retrofitted, with a new mach3 compatible controller and new servo motors?

Just curious if I would get my investment back or what...

Thanks!!!
RandEE

[Randy Forbes]

Thanks for the pics! Very nice looking shop and system you have.

Now you are still using the EMCO RS485 board and original hardware right?

Do you like your mill?

I know Randy got a great deal on his machines, but another question I might for everyone is what is a PC MILL 50 worth? Without the EMCO board? or completely retrofitted, with a new mach3 compatible controller and new servo motors?

Just curious if I would get my investment back or what...

Thanks!!!
RandEE

Thanks, yes 100% as delivered and equipped upon initial sale.

I do like the mill, and I'm sure I'd like the lathe too, but so far, I've never run it. I've only used the mill for that single project (shown in the gallery album); I've just never taken the time to learn the programming (I had help from the University Professor that used them previously to teach students).

I'd be interested to know the "street value" of the machines I have too. With a move to Florida looming on the horizon, I'm struggling with the decision to keep them, or sell...

[RCREDD]

I am certainly not an electronix guy (can't even spell it ;>), but it may be possible to bypass the original card. I also have a Lightmachines Spectralight mill. They also have a dedicated card in the PC, but there is a gentleman who tracked down the pinouts from that card and posted the results. Now anyone with a Spectralight can make a new cable (or adapter) and run the machines straight from the PC, with a control program like Mach. I also have a Roland CAMM-3 PNC3000, and with a custom adapter chip I am now able to control that machine with Mach3 also.

As for the PC 50 or 55, my retrofit was less than $500. I also added a 4th axis for under $250.

The machine is used in my business and has paid for itself over many times.

[RandEE]

I am certainly not an electronix guy (can't even spell it ;>), but it may be possible to bypass the original card. I also have a Lightmachines Spectralight mill. They also have a dedicated card in the PC, but there is a gentleman who tracked down the pinouts from that card and posted the results. Now anyone with a Spectralight can make a new cable (or adapter) and run the machines straight from the PC, with a control program like Mach. I also have a Roland CAMM-3 PNC3000, and with a custom adapter chip I am now able to control that machine with Mach3 also.

As for the PC 50 or 55, my retrofit was less than $500. I also added a 4th axis for under $250.

The machine is used in my business and has paid for itself over many times.

RCREDD,

So for $750 you've retrofitted with a 4th axis? Do you have any videos/pictures.

What is your business, just curious!

Pinouts: I have done just that, I helped a friend with a router that had a proprietary parallel card. To make it work with mach3 I just needer to change the pinouts that was very easy, but with a serial card that makes things a lot more complex.

The controller in the mill is acting like a PLC you are feeding it lines of code instead of just pulsing motors. I think, I don't know much about this. Someone who knows this stuff would have to help, I'd love to experiment with my machine. I am thinking if we could find out what is actually being sent to the machine then we could simulate that with just a normal serial card.

Again, I don't know but I would love to find out and I know there are some experts on this forum.

I bought this thing thinking I would just need a $20 RS485 card nothing special. I figured wrong and my hobby is now in a deep depression. I emailed EMCO so far nothing. If anyone has a board for sale, let me know and I'd like to buy it. Or maybe just borrow it to figure out what signals it is sending. I am sure there is a list of commands in some drawer over at EMCO that would let this thing be used by any board. Too hard to crack the code I imagine.

Retrofiters: It looks like most the retrofits on this thread went ahead and changed out the servo motors. Is there any controller that would be compatible with the existing motors?

It seems like the F1 club did some special things to circumvent their proprietary setup, didn't they? My serial number starts with F1 I'll bet it's very close, or maybe not, who knows...

This is a great thread and a great forum, I hope it gets more active with similar equipment users!

RandEE

[RCREDD]

Yes Sir, it was right around $750 to retrofit to a Gecko Drive G540, Sola 48V 12A power supply, Penta KBVF VFD for the spindle, 4 new steppers(X, Y, Z and A), 4” rotary turntable, 4” 4 jaw chuck and a collet holder with a #2MT shank. Mach3 I already had, and there were a few bucks for connectors, etc. I also had a small halogen track light lying around that I added in. I bought just about everything off of E-Bay over a few months, and then spent about 12 hours doing the swap. As a bonus I sold most of the old Emco parts which really offset the cost of the retro fit and brought it down close to nothing.
I have a picture of the 4th axis (vice is on the table also because I am in the middle of a job) and there is a short video I am attching with this. The video is also on YouTube, search RCEngineering.
As for my business, it is called RCREDD (Home Page) and I work in the medical device industry mostly. I work with Doctors and medical device companies, helping them develop and bring to market new devices.
I specialize in cardiovascular, biopsy, spinal/epidural and other custom devices. I prototype 95% of what I design in-house and on occasion I even do short production runs for use in testing.
I also design and build special machinery and tooling used in the production of medical devices and other products and I work as a liaison between a lot of large medical device companies and small to medium sized manufacturing companies, patent firms, FDA regulation specialists and marketing firms.
I have a special interest in laser machining, EDM, molding, multi axis (6) grinding and metal forming.
As for equipment, I have the Emco PC55, Roland CAMM-3 PNC3000, Light Machines Spectralight Mill, Prazi Master Turn (SD300/MD65) with CNC control, 6 Axis CNC grinder, small custom plastic injection press, small custom plastic extrusion machine for making catheters, Ameritherm catheter tipping machine, Crystal Mark micro blast work station, band-saws, drill presses, an old 3 ton punch press, ultrasonic cleaners and a number of other small specialty tools.

[RandEE]

Below is the quote I recieved from EMCO about the ISA RS485 proprietary board. They were very nice and prompt. $1,136.60 is way out of my price range so I guess I will be retrofitting. I saw there was someone who sold their board for $125 on this thread and I wouldn't mind paying $200 or so for the board, but if it can be rebuilt and be used with Mach3 for less than the price of an ISA board, forget it. I was hoping that someone could or has reverse engineered the board to find out what characters are being sent, but so far no luck

Thanks RCREDD for all the info.

I think I will follow your set up if you think it has worked for you. Can't afford that even, but I can do it piece by piece. Did the motors bolt the same as the existing motors? Can you tap holes with yours? can I after retrofit? I know you have the 55 and I have a 50, do you think your parts list would apply to me?

Another question, when you sold the spare parts on ebay do you remember what you got for them? Did you sell them piece by piece? Might use that as a template for selling mine. Thanks for the video as well, looks like a nice machine.
YouTube - ‪RCEngineering's Channel‬‏

Thanks again!
RandEE
______________________________

Hi Randy,

Per your telephone request, Y4A013000R is $1,133.60/ea and can only be purchased as a rebuilt unit. I do not have this is stock at Columbus, Ohio but would be able to order from Austria for delivery to me within a week after receipt of order. Please note this part is non returnable or refundable – sale is final.

Since you have never ordered from us before, I will need the following information if you plan to purchase:

Company Name or Individual Name
Billing address
Address where machine is located
Fabrication # for your PC Mill 50
Credit Card #

Please let me know if you have any questions or require additional information.

Thank you and best regards,
Pat

[RCREDD]

Wowsers, I sold mine tooooo cheap. It was me who sold the card, with the compuiter for $125. The Emco control was OK, but I needed to have a 4th axis. Mach3 is such a great program with wonderful support as is Gecko.

The retrofit is so easy to do (a caveman........) that i would advise anyone to do it. I am more than willing to document how and what to do if anyone is interested.

[the-jackal]

I would very much appreciate the details to retrofit the mill. Also I'm very new to working with cnc equipment so I may need a little extra help. Also I know my school is using mastercam with a lot of the other machine tools is it possible to retrofit it for mastercam instead of mach 3?

[RCREDD]

I use Mastercam X3 to write the G-code for my CNC machines. Mastercam is a CAD/CAM program where as Mach3 is a control program. What mach3 does is converts code into the electronice signal that the machine needs to move, operate the spindle and whatever else the machine needs to do.

I will give any help I can.

[the-jackal]

Oh I see, I misunderstood that. I saw you mentioned it took about 750 to retrofit your machine, but you got new steppers and the 4th axis. Are the new steppers necessary or do the gecko drives support the stock steppers?

[RCREDD]

The stepper motors on my machine were 5 phase motors. The Gecko G540 does not support 5 phase steepers. What machine do you have?

By the way the 750 included a 4th axis setup

[the-jackal]

We have the pc 50 mill. We have the RS485 board but no computer with the ISA drive so we have been looking into alternatives. 4th axis may be something we would be interested in I will have to talk to the professor about the budget though. I see the G540 does 4 axis but I'm assuming its fine just running 3?

[RandEE]

hi the-jackal,

RCREDD is helping me retrofit the PC Mill 50 I have. What are you looking at retrofitting? an EMCO as well?

It is my understanding that the GECKO controller will not drive my stepper motors, why? I don't know... but motor's aren't that expensive apparently so I am not too worried about that. The controller seems to be the most expensive piece.

for my retrofit I need:

new controller:
new motors x 3:
new VFD (Variable frequency drive) for the spindle:
new power supply:

That pretty much changes out all electronics, doesn't it? The only thing that will remain electronic is the spindle motor?

RCREDD did I miss anything?

[RandEE]

well, I would have paid 200$ for that board before I decided to retrofit, so Ill bet you could get some money for it... from someone on this forum. that would take you a long ways in getting it retrofitted!

that reminds me, I talked with EMCO about buying the extra parts after I gut my machine for retrofitting, they said they don't but they told me to talk to blue ridge? ever heard of that company?

thanks!

[RCREDD]

Emco made slight changes during production of the PC series of machines. I have talked with other people who also have a 55, but electronics were different. Maybe someone more familiar with the PC 50 can chime in about the steppers.

My steppers were whats known as 5 phase motors and they require a 5 phase driver. The Gecko G540 can not (to my knowledge) drive 5 phase stepper motors.

The advantages of doing a retrofit are many, including more modern electronics, more software availability, 4th axis (or more) capability, and cost.

If something fries in the standard machine it will cost you a nice sum to replace.

You can save some money by not using a Gecko, but I would not recommend doing so. The gecko is the best option in my opinion, American made and great support.

I have a offshore driver board in my shop I use just for tryouts of machines I build. Then the Gecko gets put in the final product.

I am currently working on putting together a step by step walk thru for the retrofit. I hope to post it next week.

[the-jackal]

That sounds great, thanks a lot RCREDD. This will help tremendously.

[RCREDD]

A few more pictures of the 4th axis. These show the collet holder instead of the 4 jaw chuck. The rotary table I used has a #2 MT which comes in very handy. I have not had a chance to make my tail stock yet or bend up the motor shroud to cover the stepper.

BTW, the stepper mount is made from 900 series nylon, as is the spider coupler I made to connect the stepper to the table worm shaft.