Looks like a very impressive build. Thanks for the info and image and pdf.
Do you often use the CW CCW function of the spindle? Would that be for tapping?
I am attaching a photo of the control cabinet on my latest retrofit of an Emco PC55 mill. As you can see, I retained the original power supply and am feeding 220v's to the VFD (KBVF 23D) and to the two original Emco fans. I could also feed 220v to the SOLA power supply but in this machine I am running 110v to the SOLA. I also have a 12vdc regulated wallwart mounted to the back wall and hard wired into the 110v.
This machine will be using a 4th axis, so there was a AMP round 4 pin connector mounted in the left side of the machine cabinet. I have not finished attaching the axis cables, that will be done today.
The Gecko G540 is mount on a DIN rail using a purchased mounting plate and two custom (homemade) standoffs. The standoffs will be replaced with finned heatsink extrusionj as soon as my new supply arrives.
On this machine the XYZ limit/home switches were all wired together in series and connected to input 1 on the G540. I added a pickup on the spindle pulley and am feeding input 2 (this machine can also run as a vertical lathe). Two additional inputs jacks are mounted in the machine cabinet near the 4th axis port for use in probing, tool setting and homing the 4th axis.
Looks like a very impressive build. Thanks for the info and image and pdf.
Do you often use the CW CCW function of the spindle? Would that be for tapping?
No I never and I mean NEVER tap in the mill. I am a real old school toolmaker and only tap by hand (tapping fixtures r ok).
I do have some left hand cutters and occasionally I do a small vertical lathe project where I may need CCW.
If you are using the g540, you will be limited to 2 outputs, unless you add modbus, etc. If you want the ability to have CCW spindle, but dont want to dedicate (waste) an output, you can add a switch to the side of the cabinet and wire it in so that you control what direction the spindle turns. I have done this before abd if you do, make sure you use a switch that is not easily "bumped" out of the desired position.
Hi RCREDD,
I'm curious as to how you will control the spindle speed, are you going to set the speed manually, or use a RS485 feed from your PC along with the parallel port?
I ask this as now I have pulled the PC Mill 50 apart a bit more I noticed I'm missing a card, and I think it is to do with the spindle motor. So I will have to address that as well!
Yours Simon M.
On all of the retrofits I have done, I have replace the original control cards and replaced them with the great Geckodrive G540 to drive the neww stepper motors and a VFD to control spindle speed. The G540 has a PWM built into it. There are 3 connections that go to the VFD, mach 3 takes control voltage from the vfd and divides it proportionally (follows a curve depending on spindle setup in MACH3) and returns it to the VFD, somewhat like having a pot connected to the vfd and manually controlling the VFD. By adding a pickup switch to the spindle drive components, you can have direct feedback to MACH3 and have accurate control of spindle speed.
I hope this helps. I wonder what happened to your spindle drive card.
Hi RCREDD,
I missed the Geckodrive has a PWM o/p. That helps a lot!
Thanks Simon M.
What about the PC Mill / Turn 50's, what sort of VFD's do they have?
Is it worth keeping?
It depends on the "build" of the given machine. I am working on a PC55 turn that originally had 3 phase stepper motors and a seperate Lenze VFD for the spindle. This is not what I normally find with Emco machines, normally they have a series of boards. One main brain, a stepper control and driver board and a spindle motor control board. I am not an EE, but I know enough electronics to wire a machine adjust voltages and currents etc. I usally just opt to swap out the controls and start fresh by matching up components and meeting a customers budgets.
A simple breakdown of what it costs to renew an Emco is simple. I always use a G540 which is under $260usd. Then 3 good steppers are about $100usd. The 48v power supply is about $100USD and the VFD is usally around $150usd. Now that is roughly $600usd for the major components. Add in the bits and pieces and you are under $700.
The nice part is that everything is brand new with no surprises in a month or two. The setup is straight forward and easy to debug if you should have a problem and everything is easy to obtain and replace.
Check what Emco wants for replacement/repair parts and you soon see the logic in a rebuild.
My missing PC Mill 50 spindle card has turned up! Didn't help me though as its got an emco PLD on board as well.
The more I pull apart these machines, the more I think that your solution is the best RCREDD. I have just pulled a heat sink off the driver chip of the YA4018000 stepper card and found out that it also looks like a proprietary chip, with no chance to find the pin outs.
As I read through the forums it also looks like spares are an issue generally, and then I have the software problem!
Down but not out
Simon M.
I do believe the software is available on the Yahoo Emco site, not positive, but do remember seeing something there. Personally I use Mach to control the my machines and I use Mastercam X4 to post the files.
A few things to remember about the original Emco's; they are considered underpowered in their original configuration, they are only 3 axis and the programming is also obsolete. Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to beat up on the Emco's or people who operate them in their original configuration. I originally converted my first Emco PC55 Mill only because I needed to have 4th axis capability. My main business is in the design and development of small disposable medical devices, and I need to build prototypes, tools and the such on small, high precision equipment. That is why I use the Emco's. I also have held a seat of Mastercam since ver. 5.5 and also due to the nature of my business I need an accurate, efficient and versatile software platform to feed programs to the machines. As for Mach, well I feel it is the best program of its kind for the machines I own and have built. I am very heavy into the design and build of custom CNC equipment that is not only used in the machining of materials, but that do other manufacturing tasks. If it has a stepper on it, Mach controls it, plain and simple. As a disclaimor, I have heard that EMC or whatever it is called is a great open source control program, and it may well be. But I have never used it, or had the need to try it. I am a Windows based person and my clients are also windows based people. I think most of them would look at me as not being very serious is I told them they had to run an open source set of software and put a little penguin in charge of their computers. I'm just not that much of a rebel.
Last edited by RCREDD; 02-22-2012 at 02:24 PM.
I think we had an unwanted visitor
Last edited by RCREDD; 02-22-2012 at 02:23 PM.
Yup
Hi RCREDD,
I've looked at Mastercam, and that looks a bit pricey for my requirements, but I've yet to decide.
This has caught my eye at the moment though, anyone used it?
Zapp Automation Ltd - Stepper motors & Stepper Motor Drivers - Servo motors and Servo Motor Drivers - Ballscrews & linear motion products. : CNCUSB Mk2/4 4 axis CNC Controller [CNCusbMk2/4] - £152.72,
There is a more basic hobby version
Zapp Automation Ltd - Stepper motors & Stepper Motor Drivers - Servo motors and Servo Motor Drivers - Ballscrews & linear motion products. : CNCUSB Hobby CNC Controller [CNCusb] - £115.00
Just like to see if any one has any comments?
Yours Simon M.
I have not used the Zapp products and I don't know anyone personally who has.
It looks like an interesting alternative to the rest of the systems on the market.
Again, I make my living with my machines and software. If I was a hobbiest, it would in now way be feasable for me to purchase Mastercam. But like I said I deal with many different software platforms and X4 opens every cad file extension I am get from my clients.
I may have to get my hands on a zapp setup (if reviews are good) and try it out.
Change can be good!
I've not used Zapp, so will leave to others to recommend.
USB seems the way forward - but I'm happy to follow the herd with Mach3 - there's a large body of users to help with any issues (including friends locally), and CAM programs (I'm experimenting with CamBam, so far so good) may be able to output in Mach-friendly g-code.
I have bought stepper motors from Arc Euro Trade, because they stocked ones with a 6mm shaft that took the pulleys for my PC Mill 50 without modification. These are good for UK purchasers, but high postage makes them costly for USA buyers. They can also supply Mach3 on CD, and Vcarve which I wish I could afford (as I've seen it in use and am impressed).
Although I've nothing to say against far eastern stepper drivers, I'm happy to endorse Gecko as a supplier of these. Postage to the UK adds to the price, but I'm very happy with mine.
Maybe I'll be the first to comment on the Zapp product??
The Geckodrive G250 has caught my eye from Charter-controls for the uk at a reasonable price but we will see.
UUU, which steppers did you use form Arc Euro Trade?
Yours Simon M.
The problem with the all in one axis boards is....
If one axis goes down ie chip blows? then you're snookered in operating your machine and the only solution is getting it repaired (might be costly?) and so a new board is required.
I used the 180N/cm ones - their cataogue number 160-010-00200
Stepper Motors - Arc Euro Trade
These fitted very easily, as the raised boss on the mounting face was a nice fit in the central hole on each EMCO mounting plate - the fixing holes didn't line up, but new ones were drilled through with a small rotational displacement. I didn't use the old roll-pin holes in the pulleys, I drilled new ones right through the pulley and shaft together at 90 degrees to the old ones, then just tapped the old roll-pins in. See post 141 for picture.
Last edited by UUU; 02-24-2012 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Add note re picture.
Thanks for the info UUU, I'll probably order some up.
Just one request can you repost the photos as they are a dead link!
Yours Simon M