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Thread: Yet Another Sieg X2 [D] CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP

  1. #25
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    Default Re: Yet Another Sieg X2 [D] CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HEL

    OK - so I landed a bunch more wires for the power and common / grounds for the sepper drivers off the 48v / 12.5 A Keling supplied Power Supply from my 3 axis "kit" ... and I'm kinda trippin ...

    Should get continuity across the X/Y/Z axis connections for Power and as well continuity on the Axis commons - anywhere there is a yellow arrow - I probe and can get continuity ... for example:

    Probe A - on 48v power supply Common/ground wired to X axis stepper with Probe B on Z axis stepper driver V+ pin

    Probe A - on 48v power supply V+ wired to Y axis stepper with Probe B on X axis stepper driver ground

    Probe A - [ on 48v power supply ] Common/ground wired to Z axis stepper driver with Probe B on X axis V= termination on either side of the terminal block

    ... and so on and so forth ... basically I get continuity at any probe point across ground across axis wiring .. I do not get continuity from 48v main power - main common or main ground to ANYTHING else in this connection group / loop

    Is this expected ?


    Picture ...

    Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-2017-12-19_1622-jpg

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  2. #26
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    Default Re: Im no sparky - so electrical guys/gals help a brother out - Which MOTOR for Upgra

    Progress Update: 12/28/2017 - Wiring... more and more Wiring of this blasted control box !!!

    I felt a pretty solid sense of accomplishment right around 12/22/17 as I had wrapped up what in my mind at the time was one of the biggest hurdles in both logistics [ getting in all the nick knack parts ] and actual figuring things out and then the DOING. I had gotten all the Remote Panel Controls [ except 1 properly illuminated rocker switch ] wired into the main box and at the remote panel. Old Saint Nick was due any day - the fam was busy busy as was I and now could put the soldering iron and magnifying glass down and enjoy Christmas ...

    Remote control panel is the following: Main Power ON momentary switch / Spindle - Key'd Lock Out on /off for when probing etc... / Coolant Rocker Switch On/Off / Accessories connections 5v/12v/GND / E-Stop Button

    Again - ALL of this stolen from my good man SAM CNC4XR7 - you should go check his channel and subscribe on youtube - really good video series on wiring THIS control box youtube search CNC4XR7 - look under his Precision Mathews Build Playlist on his channel - all killer no filler.

    Getting the C11GR DIN Rail mounted [ kinda hokey atm but plan on 3D printing some proper mount brackets for these one day. Vertical orientation of the BoB gave a ton more box space but made the wiring a bit trickier at times. Getting the 5v main power in to the C11GR BoB thru the dinkle terminal blocks and the 5v DIN rail power supply. 12v DIN Rail power supply on slow boat from china - literally - but its wired in to the C11GR except for the the 110v side and waiting for it to arrive here in this pic. Got the stepper driver PULSE and DIR connections wired in as well. Caught an error on my prior wiring too ... criss crossed a B+/B- red/white wire on Z axis stepper driver - can prolly notice it if looking closely.
    Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171220_224145-jpg


    Power Voltage to the Spindle Motor [ treadmill motor ] - these connectors are THE Shizzznitt [ imho ] CNLinko on Ebay $22 shipped - this is a 2 PIN. After fussing around with the typical sketchy chinese el cheapo aviation connectors for near everything else [ because it sure was a freakin PITA to locate quality aviation connectors in different PIN counts on ebay or amazon and iMHO Grainger and other electronics stores are just straight up dumb the way they try and sell ... online - unless youre a volume buyer.... BUT this baby was a treat to work with and solder up.


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    Feeling Pretty GOOD here ... at this point theres still 5 more conductors to wire into this panel - in all there are a total of 13 wires/conductors into this yellow Remote Control Panel
    Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171222_232939-jpg Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171223_125207-jpg Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171223_125455-jpg

    Essentially Id pretty well be DONE wiring and actually testing and powering on circuits by now except for the fact that the Coolant Power Control from the C11GR to the Solid State Relay wiring and using pins off the C11GRs 4th axis PIN outputs has been doing my head in - that and the Spindle Control wiring from the C11GR to the KBMM-125 has been aggravatingly poorly documented [ IMHO ] and after researching for 7+ days now - I find its also fraught with potential SMOKE Inducing pitfalls. Next post will cover all my trials and tribulations and discoveries of wiring spindle control for a KBMM-125 to this C11GR. Hindsight being 20/20 and funds being better - Id have opted for a quality VFD and Spindle motor for it.

    More to follow shortly....

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Yet Another Sieg X2 [D] CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HEL

    Progress Update 12/28/2017 : Part Deux - C11GR Coolant Power Relay / KBMM-125 Spindle Control Wiring


    Ok well - Where to begin to describe 7+ days if hair pulling and screaming at your computers display of yet another post and thread with 100 replies and never a solution posted to the initial problem after it drifted off into 85 other possible directions of what if's and maybe's ... Arggghhhhhhhh ... only to be lead to a link from 2007 that is now a 404 or a website for sale !!!! I may consider inventing bullet proof monitors because if I didnt have to pull a weapon out of a safe ... there'd likely be holes in this damn laptop [ j/k ]

    Coolant Power Control with Mach3 thru the C11GR BoB - that is the wiring goal here. Seemingly simple enough. Couple PINs off the ol BoB'a'roo and feed an appropriate Solid State Relay - connect some wires - 110V and some properly routed 5v to trigger the relays coil/circuit whatever and ... as they say ... "BoB'z yer Unkle " .... Welp kidz - not quite sooooo fast - unless youre a whiz bang electrical engineer [ KINDA]

    You can have a look see over here on this thread/post - start at the most recent and work your way back to where I make my first post in it . . .

    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Great replies and great gents there trying to do their level best helping a poor sap non electrical guy like me out ... Turns out ... I needed to sort out my Spindle Control setup FIRST before doing the coolant on/off relay stuff so I could determine what PIN's I had remaining on the C11GR to work with for coolant power relay control. At the onset I had no idea that the C11GRs PINs 1,14,16,17 were essentially assigned by Jumpers to the 3 onboard RELAYS. Also, what I found challenging was needing to use/rob/cannibalize the 4th axis [ PINs 8, COM, 9 ] to handle this coolant relay either way I wired my Spindle "stuff" up to the KBMM-125.

    So then, I had to switch gears ... Spindle control first - then come back to coolant - arrrggghhhhh....

    If you have or had a KBMM-125 and this BoB C11GR may god have mercy on yer soul if you have this all figured out - and if you can shed light on how to make it work right and reverse - id love to chat with you. Ive had to give up on the concept of reversing the motor [ oh well ... Note to self - Spindle Servo and Control ftw next time around ] That all being said note to persons who may be researching motors and drive/control boards for them, If I had this to do over - treadmill and drive board - Id elect a KB electronics PWM style board vs. my KBMM-125 SCR bridge type, and as stated in my prior post ... If Id had a budget of another $500 or so more at the onset . with what I know now - Id have gone with a VFD and other type of motor to match. But this lil X2 gunna rip some arse when she all done as is so all good.

    So ... after going back n forth and piddling around with what ifs - I found this thread post on Mach3 forums from DJBird3 and friends about this same issue and to note - they also feel the docs and manuals for these products both - LACKING ... seriously wtf man ?

    So here's steps and directions :-) on what Im in the middle of doing ... pretty sure its the solution. Posting it here too to make it easier for the next gent.

    https://www.machsupport.com/forum/in...;topic=21943.0

    Title: Re: Has anyone actually got a C11 to control a KB speed control via Mach?
    Post by: Vogavt on July 13, 2012, 02:58:05 PM
    After several emails back and forth with Arturo, I finally have success!

    I now have the c11 board working with the KBLC-19M and have full control of spindle speed.

    Here's what worked for me (Your Mileage May Vary):

    I needed to verify the maximum voltage across Pin 1 and Pin 2 of the KB board. As stated before, I had the KB board wired to a potentiometer. Started out with the KBLC-19M not connected to the c11.

    1. With NOTHING but power to the KB board AND manipulating the pot AND checking the voltage across P1 & P2 of the KB board, I read a maximum of 8Vdc. I had the maximum voltage coming out to the c11 board at 10Vdc which may have caused an over-voltage issue and toasted my chip set on the c11.

    2. On the c11 board I then set the pot on the analog out to minimum voltage by rotating the pot adjustment screw fully counter-clockwise.

    3. Again, WITHOUT the KB board connected to the c11, I powered up the c11.

    4. In Mach3, I requested the maximum RPM (M3 S6000 for me) to match with my maximum pulley speed setting (Pulley 1 is at maximum 6000 for me). Measuring the analog output on the c11, I was only able to get the voltage down to 9Vdc. I knew some adjustments were needed in Mach3.

    5. Turned the spindle off (M5)

    6. In Mach3, under Motor Tuning, I decreased my spindle velocity to 1200 units (it was at 1500 before).

    7. Turned the spindle back on & pushed its speed to maximum rpm via Mach3 as in Step 4.

    8. I remeasured the voltage out on the c11 and it was then reading 7Vdc.

    9. I adjusted the pot on the c11 to read 8Vdc.

    10. Turned the spindle off and turned all power off.

    11. Disconnected all three potentiometer wires from the KBLC.

    12. Connected the P1 from the KBLC to GND (Analog Out) on the c11.

    13. Connected the P2 from the KBLC to 10Vdc (Analog Out) on the c11.

    14. Said a prayer!

    15. Powered everything up - no sparks or flashes!

    16. In Mach3, requested various speeds with success.

    Hope this helps!


    And this

    Title: Re: Has anyone actually got a C11 to control a KB speed control via Mach?
    Post by: DICKEYBIRD on July 15, 2012, 05:07:01 PM
    Well I'm back where I started. I got the C11 0-10VDC-out terminal working again by jumping across the vaporized track. Got the KB working by replacing the fuse; the manual pot still works fine. So...the C11 is now workiing up & down via Mach commands and the KB is working normally.

    I followed Vogavt's instructions except my KBIC-120 only measured 3.55V across P1/P2 with the pot turned wide open. I commanded 2000 rpm in Mach, set the C11 pot to 3.55V, disconnected the manual pot, hooked up P1 to Gnd and P2 to the analog out on the C11 and did a M3S500 MDI command. No flashy arcs but the motor instantly jerked up to WFO and no amount of Mach fiddling makes a bit of difference.

    I guess I'm going to have to get one of the KBSI-5 Barrier Terminal Board Signal Isolators so I can hook up like the manual says to P2 & F-. Anybody know how to isolate the analog out signal from the C11 from the KB without the KB expensive isolator board? I need Mach speed control but don't want any more flashy bangs.


    So if you need a isolator board - theres some details for you ... you researching mofo you!!! :-)
    creating a new post as this is stuck in BOLD ...







  4. #28
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    Default Re: Yet Another Sieg X2 [D] CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HEL

    Progress Update 12/28/2017 : Part Deux Deux....

    So my current status is ... Ive taken the power leads from my contactor in the box - off the KBMM-125 - and hooked up a spare power cord to wall 110v power and run the ground to the heatsink. Put the supplied Potentiometer back on the KBMM-125 and am doing voltage testing across P3 and P1 as per the C11GR manual and the prior posts instructions.

    Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171228_060628-jpg Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-20171228_060717-jpg Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP-2017-12-28_0621-jpg

    I had previously in an earlier post here shown the pics and video of running the treadmill motor wit this same power arrangement and POT - I maxed out the MAX trimpot setting on the KBMM-125 and was getting well over 7,000 RPM out of the treadmill motor at the spindle. I never measured the voltage across P3/P1 when I did that - I wasnt that far along. I did not however; ever change the MAX trimpot settings - it was just a hair behind absolute Maximum. Well, when I just went to test ... the voltage was 14.9V. The C11GR manual indicates it wants 0 - 12V max. You are supposed to according to the C11GR manual match the voltage MAX on both boards. There is a trimpot adjustment on the C11GR too that you tune to match the voltage measured across the KBMM-125 P3 / P1 when powered on to maximum [ thought I got same voltage readings across P3 / P1 whether the manual potientmeter was at off or max rpm setting - this is the manual potentiometer supplied with the KBMM-125 not my mills manual POT ]

    I did read in a post somwhere along the way in all 500 Ive tried to glean a solution from - that Arturo worked with a gent with a similar setup but he used an 18v power supply INTO the C11 BoB in order to get 15v OUT to the KB drive board ... which exact version CNC4PC BoB it was and the exact KBMM drive board it was now escapes me ... correction. Found it ... same thread as below :-)

    BoB = C11 [ which im not sure ] with KBMM-125

    Title: Has anyone actually got a C11 to control a KB speed control via Mach?
    Post by: nucular on July 06, 2012, 12:24:34 PM

    I have my c11 and KBMM-125 using the spindle control just fine. I can pull it apart tonight to see how I wired it up. I do know that I am using a separate dc supply just for the spindle.


    Mr. NUCULAR goes on to say

    Well, I'm not electrician and it has been a while since I set this up but I will try to help.

    Here is the C11. The spindle control is on the bottom right. The black and yellow cables just run to a DB9 port on the box.

    (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...M/6723f6f5.jpg)

    The black and red wires from the C11 (for spindle power) run to a jack for this separate wall plug.

    (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...M/15993a74.jpg)

    You'll notice the power supply is actually 18V. I know that the KB manual states the supply should be 0 to 10 or something like that but my motor is 110V and when I first set this up, I could not get it to power the motor up to full speed. I spoke with Arturo from CNC4PC and he had me measure the voltage across the KB board with the PWM installed and it came out to more like 15V and in order to get 15V out of those leads, I had to use an 18V supply because there is a slight voltage drop.

    Here is a shot of the KB board. The control wires from the C11 are the green/black wires in the heat shrink. They are connected to the F- and P2 leads on the KB.

    (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...M/4c268ca9.jpg)

    Now, I don't have my motor wired directly to the KB. I have a g0704 and the original box had a FORWARD/REVERSE switch in place so I just left it (even though I don't use reverse). I believe if you wanted, you could just run the A+/A- directly to the motor. My A+ and A- go into the switch and from there it feeds back out to the motor (2 and 6 in this photo):

    (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...M/P1050631.jpg)

    After that it was just a matter of setting it up in ports and pins:

    (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/q...h3_spindle.jpg)

    This NUCULAR gents post is a bit confusing atm - as I dont understand his connections @ the F- pins on the kbmm-125 - but Im liking his 18v power to 15v power. May prompt a email to Arturo at CNC4PC

    back to the grind - thats the status of things .... Ohhhh AND THIS is on the way shortly custom treadmill motor mount - mounts to the LMS and another Pulley convers belt drive kit makers motor mount - stoked


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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Yet Another Sieg X2 [D] CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HEL

    Update 12/30/2017 : Big Boy Pantalone's ON - Controller Box Power ON - "It's Aliiiiive!"


    NO/None/Nada... wicked, not so magic smoke either !!!

    Hats off to all the kind gents who gave enlightenment, wisdom. confirmation, inspiration and had patience putting up with so many of my rookie DAQ's.

    SKMetal7
    CNC4XR7
    BIG BIG john-100 [ man ...what an ACE! ]
    Automation Technologies
    CNC4PC
    .. many others Im sure

    Humbled, Happy moment ... its all working and not smoking. Still a good ways to go yet but major milestone here...

    Spindle Key Lock out switch - works like a champ
    E-Stop - does its duty like a Boss
    C2 - 110v Contactor does too [ man that thing is kinda violent - lol
    Holding circuit / safety feature - rocks it - Sam - CNC4XR7 - you da man brother - great setup
    Remote Panel [ yellow rectangle box ] working good - needs a coolant on / off rocker switch / a 90* liqui-tight cable gland / and a DIN or other type plug to finish off a few loose wires... WOOT ... That thing is a Cable / Conducter-A-Palooooza


    Ive got a rather strong audible Clicking / Buzz coming off the C11GR BoB though - its Relay 3.... Which I may have a conflict due to the enabled SCHP - as it uses PIN 17 ... and Relay 3's jumper set to PIN 17 .... Relay 3 alternatively can be jumpered to PIN 1 [ PIN 17 or 1 are the only two options ] - but I have PIN 1 and a GND setup to control Coolant Power via SSR Relay.

    Something is funky though ... as - when I disconnect the KBMM-125s main AC Line IN to the KBMM-125 - the Buzzing Sound ceases. All this of course makes the assumption that this card is NOT supposed to be "buzzing" ..
    .

    She maybe AINT much but she mine :-)

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Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP
Yet Another Sieg X2 [D]  CNC Conversion and Upgrade Thread - Total Newb Needs HELP