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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    I think your interpretation re 'through plated' is correct.

    The problem with desoldering is that sometimes the pins can have an interference fit into the plated hole, and removing the pin can damage the plating. After all, the PCB material itself can NOT withstand the soldering temp for very long. Equally, the high temp can lift a copper track off the surface of the PCB - which can then break. The photo below shows what can happen - see pin 12.
    Attachment 369434

    Cheers
    Roger
    Having ruined a board or two in the past, this is my exact worry, lol. I've never been skilled or practiced in this area, however. At least there aren't delicate ICs involved here, just a pin header, yet folks seem able to replace those successfully. Ultimately, much of this hinges on the quality/character of the board vias, and I can't know ahead of time.

    TCB



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    I beseech thee, gods, return life to this lifeless thread! Electrify its electrons, that my project may progress once more!

    A new job in a new town got in the way. It happens. . Now that I'm settled in, I can focus on this project once more.

    I'm working with Galil now to determine what I need to do to get my controller & stepper board sorted, so I'm coming back to the CAM-to-controller interface side of things which was still up in the air.

    Galil's DMC language doesn't accept G Code, so this controller won't accept G-Code output from my CAM software (Fusion 360). Does anybody have any ideas for how to get past this rather obvious obstacle? I understand Mr. Dawson has done quite a bit of work creating a controller interface that works with the Galil products, but I know very little about what all it can do or how it works or whether he is still offering the software to testers. *Assuming* that aspect is resolved, I presume that a Fusion post-processor would still be needed to create the file feeding into that software. Has anyone else besides Camsoft been exploring 21X3 and newer Galil controllers over the last year? Mach4 finally has their plugin released, but I understand it's barely a beta version at this point (lacking basic features like rigid tapping) has little/no lathe functionality otherwise, and isn't tested or supported for the 2183 controller (which they say means my questions would go unanswered, and bugs unresolved). Whole lotta money for an unknown quantity (200$ + 100$ for Mach4 Hobby with the plugin)

    A Fusion compiler & post processor that directly output Galil DMC script would be an awesome, obvious solution. Honestly, it would be a fantastic boon to hobbyists & DIYers seeing how capable the software & legacy drives are, and how affordable both are.



  3. #83
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    I'm still alive and the offer is still good. My software will do just about anything you want it to do, including rigid tapping (at least I've done it on my lathe, not on the mill) My software works fine with the Fanuc, Haas, or Mach3 Fusion 360 posts (and actually most of the others also). For the lathe I use the Haas lathe posts.

    In any case you are always going to have to have a translator between the G code and the controller no matter what controller you are using. Motion controllers have no idea what any length unit is, they only understand encoder or step pulses.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Galil's DMC language doesn't accept G Code,
    Good lord. How very 1980s.
    At some stage one has to advance past the end of the 20th C and into the 21st.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Well, they're still making & selling the damn things, so it stands to reason *somebody* is able to make use of them At least the Galil software is C-based now, so macros & stuff are being developed. IIRC, these are circa 2000 boards, just designed to work with Camsoft Exclusively (that or some poor bastard is manually programming the things, I guess)

    I think I understand what you're saying, Jim; the controller doesn't "do" geometry. If you don't mind my asking (and if the question isn't stupidly broad) how does your software 'work'? From what I've read of the Mach3 translator, it took Gcode, parsed it into vector paths, parsed those into Galil commands via linear interpolation, and that mess got fed to the Galil controller. It sounds like the Mach4 plugin is doing something similar, only at a higher order of interpolation and making use of newer-controllers' ability to read ahead using on board memory while accepting input data at a high bandwidth (i.e. complicated spline-based toolpaths generated by 'adaptive' CAM software functions). Does your work do interpolation, or does it translate the G commands to DMC directly some other way?

    You have no idea how relieved I am to hear that you've had success with your software & Fusion; the project just got far more viable in my eyes

    So if I understand this correctly, the 'data flow chart' works as follows;

    Fusion360 CAD -> Fusion360 CAM -> G Code Post Processor -> DMC_CNC (was that the name, Jim?) -> DMC-2183 Controller -> SDM-20640 Stepper Drive (axes) & Baldor Microflex Servo Drive (spindle)

    Like I said, it sure would be nice if Fusion could output the DMC language directly, since it would make these old controllers almost turn-key for the retrofitters & homebuilders out there. The market for that CAD/CAM software & the used (or new for that matter) controllers & drives seem like they would have a lot of overlap (i.e. cheap sum*****es willing to put in some elbow grease). I have no idea how practical or possible it is Fusion to accomplish that, however.

    Is your software something that is worth experimenting with before I have the controller (or motors) up and running? I've got a pretty firm view of my electrical block diagram at this time, so perhaps I could set up the machine as a simulation for the time being? Feed it G-code from Fusion and see what pops out?



  6. #86
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by barnbwt View Post
    I think I understand what you're saying, Jim; the controller doesn't "do" geometry. If you don't mind my asking (and if the question isn't stupidly broad) how does your software 'work'? From what I've read of the Mach3 translator, it took Gcode, parsed it into vector paths, parsed those into Galil commands via linear interpolation, and that mess got fed to the Galil controller. It sounds like the Mach4 plugin is doing something similar, only at a higher order of interpolation and making use of newer-controllers' ability to read ahead using on board memory while accepting input data at a high bandwidth (i.e. complicated spline-based toolpaths generated by 'adaptive' CAM software functions). Does your work do interpolation, or does it translate the G commands to DMC directly some other way?
    That is a hard question to answer. The Galil will do geometry by linear and circular interpolation, but all of the units are in encoder pulses. So if you tell the controller to move the X axis 10000 pulses and move the Y axis 10000 pulses the tool path will be 45° to the axes. (making a lot of assumptions here for simplicity) I find that in most cases it's better to convert arcs & splines to very short line segments and use linear interpolation with a deep look ahead.

    You have no idea how relieved I am to hear that you've had success with your software & Fusion; the project just got far more viable in my eyes
    I was happy to get it running. It took a lot longer than I had originally planned, but I've made thousands of parts now so well proven.

    So if I understand this correctly, the 'data flow chart' works as follows;

    Fusion360 CAD -> Fusion360 CAM -> G Code Post Processor -> DMC_CNC (was that the name, Jim?) -> DMC-2183 Controller -> SDM-20640 Stepper Drive (axes) & Baldor Microflex Servo Drive (spindle)
    That is pretty much it. The name is DC_CNC

    Like I said, it sure would be nice if Fusion could output the DMC language directly, since it would make these old controllers almost turn-key for the retrofitters & homebuilders out there. The market for that CAD/CAM software & the used (or new for that matter) controllers & drives seem like they would have a lot of overlap (i.e. cheap sum*****es willing to put in some elbow grease). I have no idea how practical or possible it is Fusion to accomplish that, however.
    I'm just not sure that's possible. Maybe it is, but it doesn't seem very practical because of all of the other functions required of the user interface.

    Is your software something that is worth experimenting with before I have the controller (or motors) up and running? I've got a pretty firm view of my electrical block diagram at this time, so perhaps I could set up the machine as a simulation for the time being? Feed it G-code from Fusion and see what pops out?
    Sure, you can play with it. It is possible to set the Galil to stepper mode and operate it just like it's running on the machine, the software doesn't know that it's not running a machine. I did a lot of debugging that way for the lathe, much more comfortable sitting at my desk rather than standing in front of the lathe.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Sorry for bringing up an old thread but info about ABB\Baldor servo drives is very few.

    I have an ABB MicroFlex E150 servo drive and a servo which I want to use as spindle motor. I did all the setup and the motor works well in Mint software. I did the step-dir setup per the manual say. I also did the required setting for my cnc4pc M16D board for step-dir spindle control. I use Mach4 by the way. Everything looks more than OK but that damn servo wont react any of the Mach4 M3, M4 and S commands.

    Is there a way to use the MicroFlex drive with standard step-dir signal, without using a NextMove thing?

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    Sorry for bringing up an old thread but info about ABB\Baldor servo drives is very few.

    I have an ABB MicroFlex E150 servo drive and a servo which I want to use as spindle motor. I did all the setup and the motor works well in Mint software. I did the step-dir setup per the manual say. I also did the required setting for my cnc4pc M16D board for step-dir spindle control. I use Mach4 by the way. Everything looks more than OK but that damn servo wont react any of the Mach4 M3, M4 and S commands.

    Is there a way to use the MicroFlex drive with standard step-dir signal, without using a NextMove thing?
    If using as a spindle, why not try the analogue output / inputs?
    I'd go through it all again. May have missed something in the peramiters of servo or mach.

    I've only just started messing with a servo drive myself for the first time.
    I've got mine on analogue signal. I was getting S fine but wasn't gettting M3/M4.
    I missed that I had to change a peramiter on the digital input to specify it's for CW/CCW useage.



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Hey,

    I need step-dir because I want to use rigid tapping. It shouldn't be that hard because according to the manual it is so simple.

    Manual says set the ENCODERMODE(1) parameter to 4 and DIN1 and DIN2 becomes as step and dir inputs.

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    I guess this is why it doesn't work. The MicroFlex drive wants 24v step dir signals to activate the inputs.

    Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors-abb5-png

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors-abb5-png  
    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    I guess this is why it doesn't work. The MicroFlex drive wants 24v step dir signals to activate the inputs.

    Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors-abb5-png
    Surprising. The Lichuan I have can take S/D anywhere from 5v-24v.
    If 24v is the case with yours there could be a headache.
    So. I'm looking at this board atm https://www.cnc4pc.com/pokeys-motion-mother-board.html which comes up when I do a search for yours (is this the right one).?
    It's all about inputs in the manual.
    Which board do you have attached to it for the axis outputs?.
    I'm looking at the C77, C78 and C87 as a guide,
    So far everything looks to be coming up as 5v S/D signals for axes or open collector as a switch up to 24v and that's it.

    I recently got a UCBB from cncdrive and that can put out 5v-24v S/D signals.

    Atm all I can think of is finding a 5v in to 24v out optoisolation module (high speed) to put inbetween board and servo to boost the S/D voltage to the drive.

    Last edited by dazp1976; 07-02-2021 at 09:35 AM.


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Hi,
    The pokeys 57e and c78 is attached to M16d board.

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    .

    Atm all I can think of is finding a 5v in to 24v out optoisolation module (high speed) to put inbetween board and servo.
    I didn't know such modules exist. Do you have a link to any of these I can use?

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    I didn't know such modules exist. Do you have a link to any of these I can use?

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk

    A quick search came up with something like this:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914498721.html
    There is no guarantee this idea will work but I can't see why not.

    The reason I say look for high speed opto is they can go up to 200khz whereas a standard opto can only go to around 20khz.
    Wouldn't be much of a problem for a stepper drive but for a servo you want more pulse rates tbf.

    My board uses 74HC14D and 2047t1 isolators/drivers. Has 5v logic circuits and can use either +5v / +24v on the opto's to + on drivers with active low S/D.
    Another option is:
    Is there another available output where you can attach another output board similar to mine on your controller?.
    You could add something like a cncdrive UCSB to it (IDC26 connection). These can supposedly run axes at 5v while another runs on 24v at the same time etc.

    It's a little frustrating. The M16 manual describes the expansion port as pins 2-9 for outputs which would be ideal for a UCSB but then later shows LPT_3 expansion as all input pins!!!!????!!!???



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    A quick search came up with something like this:
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32914498721.html
    I think this one converts high volt signal to 5v.

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    stupid question - why does it need to be step/dir for rigid tapping?



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    No, that's a good question actually. I ask myself that too but I can't answer. I just want real positioning on the spindle.

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Quote Originally Posted by samco View Post
    stupid question - why does it need to be step/dir for rigid tapping?
    It does not need to be step/direction. But you do need encoder feedback to the controller for electronic gearing. You need to rigidly electronically couple the Z axis to the spindle rotation at the proper gear ratio for the threads being cut. Thus the Z axis position is being driven by the spindle position. The speed of the spindle only needs to be in the proper cutting speed range for the operation.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    Came across this (pg48).
    Shows that it is doable using analog speed control.
    https://machmotion.com/documentation...C%20Manual.pdf
    I think you need to have a good look around and a bit of research into it all.

    That LPT expansion slot on your M16 is still bugging me (the IDC26 port).
    If that has a standart LPT layout I'd bung a UCSB on there and drive it's opto's at 24v S/D straight into the servo. Job done.
    https://www.cnc4pc.com/ucsb-single-p...out-board.html
    Need to find out about that port because the manual has conflicting information on it.

    I'm actually not a fan of that M16.
    The cnc4pc stuff is nearly all 5v only on the outputs
    Might as well just use those $5-$10 Chinese parallel boards that you can get!!!



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    Default Re: Motion Controllers: Mixing Servos & Stepper Motors

    I'm not a fan either but that M16D with Pokeys 57 and C78 is a good combination and makes things easier, except the problem I have now.

    Arturo, owner of cnc4pc suggested me several solutions but this one stuck in my head. Is this doable? (I don't know how to do it tho)

    "Just make sure the +24vdc does not get to the C78. But you could feed +24vdc into a pin and just put a limiting resistor on the going to the C78."

    Suat
    Proud father, C# developer, Model heli pilot, newbie free time machinist for hobby


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