Build Thread I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion - Page 2


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 13 to 24 of 27

Thread: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

  1. #13
    Registered ninefinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    445
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Did you have mach3 and the DRO before the conversion? If so what kind of delta were you seeing before? I was just playing with mine and setting up some tools, I get almost 0.004 sticktion / backlash without the motor running, with the motor the vibrations seem to help it settle down better but that still means I have 0.004" of play in Z (probably more under cutting forces).



  2. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    149
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    I did have mach3 and a DRO before that's why I could tell about the .0006 difference. Before although it worked it was not solid. The Z axis would actually bend front to back when drilling if I had the RPMs too slow and the feed too fast fast. Even though I had the dove tails as tight as I could manage without wrenching on them. Actually I should of broke drills but it bent back a bit instead giving a little flex. I was not far off the rpm and feed or I would have broken them off for sure anyway. I could stand at the side and watch the flex in the dove tails as it drilled. That's why I am trying the Hiwin rails and square blocks. So far awesome, no flex and a solid Z axis. The motor sounds better and the axis runs nice up and down. I'm jazzed. The X and Y do have some stiction but they are next. It's over a grand to fix it right but it's the perfect size and I really like the machine even more now than before. As far as the Delta question you'd have to explain what your looking for a bit better.
    I really think if all the bench top mill builders would go with Hiwin rails I think everyone would pay the difference. I don't see the big deal in doing it. Instead of wasting time cutting dove tails just cast a flat surface and machine it perfect for the rails to bolt to. It seems the Chinese could do that change over a weekend to there casting molds or make new ones. Then again I don't understand why anyone would buy a G0704 to build a CNC out of when a RF45 or I.H. Charter is available. I understand people love them and that's great, at least there in the game. It's kinda like motorcycles, It's not what you ride, it's that you ride. I do have a G0704 myself. I still can't get over how tiny it is compared to the Charter Oaks.



  3. #15
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5261
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Nice conversion. Some vids would be great....



  4. #16
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5261
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadstercycle View Post
    I did have mach3 and a DRO before that's why I could tell about the .0006 difference. Before although it worked it was not solid. The Z axis would actually bend front to back when drilling if I had the RPMs too slow and the feed too fast fast. Even though I had the dove tails as tight as I could manage without wrenching on them. Actually I should of broke drills but it bent back a bit instead giving a little flex. I was not far off the rpm and feed or I would have broken them off for sure anyway. I could stand at the side and watch the flex in the dove tails as it drilled. That's why I am trying the Hiwin rails and square blocks. So far awesome, no flex and a solid Z axis. The motor sounds better and the axis runs nice up and down. I'm jazzed. The X and Y do have some stiction but they are next. It's over a grand to fix it right but it's the perfect size and I really like the machine even more now than before. As far as the Delta question you'd have to explain what your looking for a bit better.
    I really think if all the bench top mill builders would go with Hiwin rails I think everyone would pay the difference. I don't see the big deal in doing it. Instead of wasting time cutting dove tails just cast a flat surface and machine it perfect for the rails to bolt to. It seems the Chinese could do that change over a weekend to there casting molds or make new ones. Then again I don't understand why anyone would buy a G0704 to build a CNC out of when a RF45 or I.H. Charter is available. I understand people love them and that's great, at least there in the game. It's kinda like motorcycles, It's not what you ride, it's that you ride. I do have a G0704 myself. I still can't get over how tiny it is compared to the Charter Oaks.
    Well there are size constraints. Not everyone has a space or a means to move an RF45 style mill. And obviously the primary intentions of the mill were not CNC conversion though it is popular now. And there are some mills available for a while now with linear rails and ballscrews. It also may not be the best solution for manual use.



  5. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    149
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    Well there are size constraints. Not everyone has a space or a means to move an RF45 style mill. And obviously the primary intentions of the mill were not CNC conversion though it is popular now. And there are some mills available for a while now with linear rails and ballscrews. It also may not be the best solution for manual use.
    It would be nice to have a post with all the linear rail bench top units available for people I for one may get another one for the shop and CNC it.



  6. #18
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5261
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadstercycle View Post
    It would be nice to have a post with all the linear rail bench top units available for people I for one may get another one for the shop and CNC it.
    Usually the mills with linear rails and ballscrews are already CNCd. Some examples would be SYIL, Wabeco, SkyFire if you can buy from the US distributor... There was a Canadian company, but I don't know if they're still around - MTW...



  7. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    149
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    Usually the mills with linear rails and ballscrews are already CNCd. Some examples would be SYIL, Wabeco, SkyFire if you can buy from the US distributor... There was a Canadian company, but I don't know if they're still around - MTW...
    I'm talking about a RF45, I.H. Charter even the G0704 with that option. I've been looking at the Sky fire for months. A little difference from a $1500 to $2500 dollar machine to a $18,000 Skyfire or a $35,000 Haas mini mill.



  8. #20
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5261
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadstercycle View Post
    I'm talking about a RF45, I.H. Charter even the G0704 with that option. I've been looking at the Sky fire for months. A little difference from a $1500 to $2500 dollar machine to a $18,000 Skyfire or a $35,000 Haas mini mill.
    You can buy the SkyFire as a bare-bones machine... sans electronics. Any company that sells a mill with ballscrews and linear rails would be doing it with the intent of selling it as a CNC It would be pretty difucult to manual mill on a machine with 5mm ballscrews...



  9. #21
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1152
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Awesome conversion!!! Any updates since having the new linear ways installed? Or some machining video?

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk



  10. #22
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    149
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
    Awesome conversion!!! Any updates since having the new linear ways installed? Or some machining video?

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk
    No videos just great machining now. No head flexing when drilling or cutting and a solid Z. I actually just ordered a Skyfire VMC2 so I may be selling the Charter conversion. The charter oaks works great I am just wanting a VMC for some production runs I'm doing.



  11. #23
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I saw you mention of this talking about the sky you ordered. I'm interested in details about this build if there is a chance you would message me. We're you having rigidity issues? If so what did you find was the underlying reason for the instability?


    Quote Originally Posted by Roadstercycle View Post
    OK, this is a bit premature but since I want input before I start I thought I'd throw it out there and see what sticks. I just ordered a Grizzley G0704 to help with the conversion because it seems you need a mill to build a mill and since I just sold my RF 31 CNC conversion I put myself in a bind. The G0704 is going to so much nicer than that round column on the RF31. Anyway since I'll have it down for that I may do the belt drive too so I'll murder 2 birds with 1 machine. OK so back to the conversion. My thoughts are Hiwin 20 rails and 4 bearing blocks. I'll need to cut the tips of the dove tails to give some extra room for the rails and block. The rotating back plate needs to be machined to accept the blocks. This is where a little helpful brain storming from you guys may help. I was also thinking I may just get a 13" x 13" piece of 1.5" thick 6061 aluminum and machine and bolt my head to it and get rid of the dove tail rotating casting all together. Nail it as close as possible straight up and down and leave a little clearance in the mounting holes for bumping perfect when tramping it in. So my questions are: Do you guys think that the 1.5" aluminum plate will be strong enough to avoid flexing or should I go with a 1.5" thick steel plate? Or just machine the stock rotating plate for the bearing guides? I saw how one guy did it with looked like a G0704 but I've not seen an I.H. conversion yet. I would think someone would have done it already. So if anyone has any good ideas I'd love to hear them. Or if you know where a conversion thread is, let me know. I don't need to reinvent the wheel.

    Here's a couple pics of my mill and the dovetail area. I have to sneak the rail and bearing block into that area next to the dove tail. If I take about 3/8" off the dovetail tip it should work fine.

    The Mill is a I.H. Charter
    3 phase 3HP Baldor motor with VFD
    Quick tool changer with Tormach TSS. Would you believe I found that air cylinder on Ebay for $95. I couldn't hit the "Buy it Now" button fast enough. I priced a new one $650 plus shipping, Yikes.... I am still able to use the spindle handle for quick drilling and my tapamatic setup
    It has double ball screws and it still has manual use besides full CNC
    Rotary table 4th axis.




  12. #24
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadstercycle View Post
    I'm talking about a RF45, I.H. Charter even the G0704 with that option. I've been looking at the Sky fire for months. A little difference from a $1500 to $2500 dollar machine to a $18,000 Skyfire or a $35,000 Haas mini mill.
    You could build your own. The platforms are typically the same. It's the quality base you choose to start with. Ball screws are inexpensive and with your skills can easily be implemented and now a company is selling on eBay a prebuilt enclosure for $900-$1500 depending on options. It's a beautiful enclosure for most of us that's probably the place we're not equipped to fabricate in a home shop environment. Start with a nice Taiwanese platform like the Pm833 with a large travel table and you would have quite a machine after upgrading ballscrews, vfd 3hp, etc... Even choosing a $3,000 commercial control platform and touch screen would save you from the expense of a sky. Making it all look complete and integrated is ultimately up to the builders desire, taste, time allotted, and skill level, among equipment available to achieve those results. Ultimately I have such a project I have proceeded with that will likely take the better of a year to complete before I can even turn it on. I anticipate to have approx $10-12,000 invested.



Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion
I.H. Charter Z axis Hiwin rail conversion