spindle reaches 200 plus degrees

[sphinxxtreme]

Hello this is my first post so bear with me. I have been building my machine for production use for over a year now and am close to completion. I researched for a long time on whether to get a water cooled or air cooled and it seemed most preferred air cooled. And as I am on the verge of going broke over this venture I chose the "ebay special". So I grabbed the 2.2kw air cooled spindle from solar,jean. I however did spend $$$$ and grabbed the hitachi wj200-022sf.

SOOOO I have everything setup just as every post here has suggested. The spindle however starts to heat up fast and within 5-10 min reaches almost 200 - 210 degrees. Now Im new but Im betting thats very bad. Of course solar.jean seems to belive thats normal. ???????HUH!!?? Its normal to toast your hand changing tools mid project? So this is the first time I am reaching out to any one for help. I will do my best to give a complete lists of connections and settings:


2.2kw air cooled spindle
Hitachi wj200-022sf settings per posts here:

A001=00
A002=02
A004=4OOHZ
A003=400HZ BASE
A061=400HZ
A062=0
A082=240
A151=10% ???????? As somone else pointed out the wj200 this setting is in % so I left it at 10 default
A152=10% same as A151
A153= 10% same as last 2
A154= Didnt touch again posted setting doesnt match the wj200
A151=0
B012=8.5 AMPS PER STAMP ON SPINDLE
H003= 2.2
H004= 2 POLES
spindle PINS 1=V 2=U 3=W 4=grounded to case earth. I ADDED GROUND TO PIN 4 IN SPINDLE. PINS 1 AND 2 WERE SWAPPED BECAUSE SPINDLE WAS RUNNING IN REVERSE.
Ohm reading pins1-2 (3.3ohms) pins 2-3 (3.3ohms) pins 1-3 (3.3ohms)

Also continuity tested all pins to case and nothing except pin 4 which is normal given its the ground.

Power to inverter comes direct from main using 10-3 wire with 20amp breaker
Power hooked to inverter L1 and N, ground hooked to inverter casing as per hitachi manual instructions. And YES it is a ground leg Im using not the neutral leg.

SOOOOO, Ive read just about every post I could find on this site as well as others and these are the only setting I could find.

Now Im guessing theres something wrong with the spindle but how do I verify this so I can tell solar.jean to take a hike and get me a brand new one?
Ugra,keling? chinese spindles? or the ton of other american companies that sell spindles for thousands? They are ALL the lottery right?
Any suggestions or input on maybe different settings for the Hitachi? Or the spindle is bad?
Thanks

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[Jim Dawson]

I think you want to set the Base Frequency A003 to 60 Hz to start with. This reduces the torque a bit (and thus the current draw) at higher speeds. Then if the spindle bogs down when cutting, increase A003 a bit more. See page 3-15 of the VFD manual. Also check the motor nameplate voltage, if it's 220 V then set A082 = 220

[ger21]

If it's spinning, there's nothing wrong with the spindle, unless you're running it slow, where the fan won't cool it properly, or it has really tight bearings.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A properly setup spindle will run at max RPM and never get hot enough to be even uncomfortable to touch. You clearly have a serious bearing problem with yours. I can run my machines all day long at 6-8K RPM and the spindles might get up to about 110-120F.

Regards,
Ray L.

[sphinxxtreme]

Thanks for the replies,

Jim Dawson, Theres been multiple posts where people have had their base freq set to 50 or even 60hz but it seems to always turn out where (on these chinese spindles) its supposed to be set to the same frq as its max which is 400hz per member mactec54 and member Raider

ger21, spinning it is and at full 24000rpm during the test, however I dont think they were designed to cook bacon on.

SCzEngrgGroup, I followed several posts by mactec54 and Raider and set my parameters as they posted. Im with you that theres something wrong but from which side? Because theres hardly any info on Hitachi parameter settings I have to put my faith in mactec54 and Raider and assume its the spindle. I was just throwing it out there just incase someone else might have more info on proper Hitachi settings so I could say with absolute confidence that it was the spindle. One curious thing is that its hotter at the lower half which common sense says bad bearing.

[ger21]

If you spin it by hand, does it spin freely, or does it stop quickly?

[sphinxxtreme]

spins freely. zero tension

[SCzEngrgGroup]

SCzEngrgGroup, I followed several posts by mactec54 and Raider and set my parameters as they posted. Im with you that theres something wrong but from which side? Because theres hardly any info on Hitachi parameter settings I have to put my faith in mactec54 and Raider and assume its the spindle. I was just throwing it out there just incase someone else might have more info on proper Hitachi settings so I could say with absolute confidence that it was the spindle. One curious thing is that its hotter at the lower half which common sense says bad bearing.

Heat can come from two places:

1) Mechanical - this would be caused by excessive bearing preload or something else that causes friction, which in turn causes heat. If the spindle turns freely by hand, this is likely not the cause.

2) Electrical - Incorrect VFD parameters can absolutely cause the motor to run hot. I am assuming we're talking about one of the high-speed spindles that is direct-driven by a motor connected directly to the spindle itself, which allows heat generated in the motor to be transferred directly to the spindle. Is that what we're talking about here? VFD parameters can only be set properly by KNOWING the motor specifications. Without that, you can only guess, and there are many factors that cannot be easily determined.

What motor specifications do you have? Was the VFD provided by whoever sold you the motor/spindle? Have you asked them for setting, or, better still, specifications? Sadly, these things are often sold by people who are simply resellers, and know absolutely nothing about the product itself. Have you asked the seller for help? If they can't help you, you may be kinda hosed....

Does the temperature eventually stabilize, or does it keep increasing the longer its run?

Does still it heat up if run at lower RPM?

Is the 200F you've seen when running with no load? Is it worse when loaded?

Regards,
Ray L.

[sphinxxtreme]

SCzEngrgGroup, spindle - chinese 2.2kw 0-24000rpm 400hz 220V 8.5a (nameplate) ebay Top Quality FOUR BEARINGS 2.2KW AIR COOLED SPINDLE MOTOR ER20 for CNC | eBay

Thats as much as I can give you for the spindle

VFD purchased seperatly from Driveswarehouse - Hitachi wj200-022sf variable frequency 3hp 200-240vac single phase input ebay HITACHI WJ200-022SF,VARIABLE FREQUENCY DRIVE, 3 HP, 230 VAC, SINGLE PHASE INPUT | eBay

Driveswarehouse was zero help they never return any emails.

Temp rises to around 150F roughly in 10 min and continues up to 200F give or take a few degrees and stays. Ran spindle for 30 min test. No point in running it longer. And Yes test was done Without a load. Havent tried with a load.

this is the post I read about settings

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/spindl...ml#post1223584

[SCzEngrgGroup]

So what speed were you running it at, and what frequency does that correspond to?

What input voltage/phase are you using?

Regards,
Ray L.

[mactec54]

I think you want to set the Base Frequency A003 to 60 Hz to start with. This reduces the torque a bit (and thus the current draw) at higher speeds. Then if the spindle bogs down when cutting, increase A003 a bit more. See page 3-15 of the VFD manual. Also check the motor nameplate voltage, if it's 220 V then set A082 = 220

You are not dealing with a regular AC motor that runs at 60Hz, if you want to damage the motor then set it at 60Hz and watch out for the smoke, the correct setting is 400Hz for these spindles

[mactec54]

Hello this is my first post so bear with me. I have been building my machine for production use for over a year now and am close to completion. I researched for a long time on whether to get a water cooled or air cooled and it seemed most preferred air cooled. And as I am on the verge of going broke over this venture I chose the "ebay special". So I grabbed the 2.2kw air cooled spindle from solar,jean. I however did spend $$$$ and grabbed the hitachi wj200-022sf.

SOOOO I have everything setup just as every post here has suggested. The spindle however starts to heat up fast and within 5-10 min reaches almost 200 - 210 degrees. Now Im new but Im betting thats very bad. Of course solar.jean seems to belive thats normal. ???????HUH!!?? Its normal to toast your hand changing tools mid project? So this is the first time I am reaching out to any one for help. I will do my best to give a complete lists of connections and settings:


2.2kw air cooled spindle
Hitachi wj200-022sf settings per posts here:

A001=00
A002=02
A004=4OOHZ
A003=400HZ BASE
A061=400HZ
A062=0
A082=240
A151=10% ???????? As somone else pointed out the wj200 this setting is in % so I left it at 10 default
A152=10% same as A151
A153= 10% same as last 2
A154= Didnt touch again posted setting doesnt match the wj200
A151=0
B012=8.5 AMPS PER STAMP ON SPINDLE
H003= 2.2
H004= 2 POLES
spindle PINS 1=V 2=U 3=W 4=grounded to case earth. I ADDED GROUND TO PIN 4 IN SPINDLE. PINS 1 AND 2 WERE SWAPPED BECAUSE SPINDLE WAS RUNNING IN REVERSE.
Ohm reading pins1-2 (3.3ohms) pins 2-3 (3.3ohms) pins 1-3 (3.3ohms)

Also continuity tested all pins to case and nothing except pin 4 which is normal given its the ground.

Power to inverter comes direct from main using 10-3 wire with 20amp breaker
Power hooked to inverter L1 and N, ground hooked to inverter casing as per hitachi manual instructions. And YES it is a ground leg Im using not the neutral leg.

SOOOOO, Ive read just about every post I could find on this site as well as others and these are the only setting I could find.

Now Im guessing theres something wrong with the spindle but how do I verify this so I can tell solar.jean to take a hike and get me a brand new one?
Ugra,keling? chinese spindles? or the ton of other american companies that sell spindles for thousands? They are ALL the lottery right?
Any suggestions or input on maybe different settings for the Hitachi? Or the spindle is bad?
Thanks

The correct wiring is

U=Pin 1
V=Pin2
W=Pin3
Ground Pin 4

Your spindle must be wire this way

By the Pin check you did the spindle may be damaged, the readings are too high 1.6 is about the max normally, this also could be how you are using your meter, or doing the test as they are all the same it may be quite Ok

[mactec54]

sphinxxtreme

Try these Settings Plus the U V W wiring change
Mactec54

F001=400

A001= 00

A002 = 02

A004=400Hz

A003 = 400Hz is Spindle base frequency

A061 =400Hz

A062 = 120 This may need to be Higher for Air Cooled Spindles

A082 = 220v / 230v / 240v Motor Rated voltage

A151= Default

A152 = Default

A153 = Default

A154=100

A155=10

B012=9 2.2Kw 9 Amps

B013=00 Reduced Torque

B013=01 Default Setting Constant Torque may cause over heating

H003 = 2.2 KW this is your spindle kw rating

H004 = 2 poles

[sphinxxtreme]

sphinxxtreme

Try these Settings Plus the U V W wiring change
Mactec54

F001=400

A001= 00

A002 = 02

A004=400Hz

A003 = 400Hz is Spindle base frequency

A061 =400Hz

A062 = 120 This may need to be Higher for Air Cooled Spindles

A082 = 220v / 230v / 240v Motor Rated voltage

A151=0

A152 = 400Hz

A153 = 0

A154 =100

A155 = 00

B012=9 2.2Kw 9 Amps

B013=00 Reduced Torque

B013=01 Default Setting Constant Torque may cause over heating

H003 = 2.2 KW this is your spindle kw rating

H004 = 2 poles

Ok so contacted Hitachi support and seems to be solved.

I screwed up A082. Had it set for 240v instead of spindle plate of 220v.
Next he had me set B083 "carrier freq" to 5 from the default 2. All of the rest of the settings you posted he said was fine. The spindle was much quieter and max temp after running at 24000rpm for 30min was 116deg F. So I raised carrier up to 6 and spindle got even quieter and temp dropped to 110F max. This is without a load. I attempted 7 but temp stayed constant at 110 so dropped it back to 6.

Now I changed B013 from constant to reduced torque and it had no effect.

As far as pins 1u,2v,3w having it wired that way the spindle runs in reverse. Is there a setting somewhere in there that changes the direction back so I don't have to swap wires? This is why I swapped the pins 1 and 2 in the first place but if they absolutely have to be 1u,2v,3w then its gonna take a really long time to cut stuff.

Now you were correct about the ohms. The readings are off. My digital ohm meter was reading 2ohm with the leads touching each other so if you subtract the 2 from the now reading 3.8 and you fall in the range 1.8 across all pins so spindle still good.

As far the the setting A152 there seems to be some confusion. I have seen another poster who tried to correct everyone but the confusion is still there. That setting along with A151 and A153 are in percents ONLY. Range is 0-50%. You cant set frequency there. Now A154 can be set as freq and A155 is in seconds so those are good. Its just those 3 settings A151 THRU 153 that are off. So if you have a recommended setting for that it can only be 0-50%

So I guess all is good. Temp still hitting 110F which for and air cooling spindle I guess will have to do. I will only be cutting wood and foam nothing else so I would guess high rpm is where I will be most of the time anyway.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in, if theres still any other suggestions for lowering the temp even more I'm open for suggestions. Thank!

[ger21]

I will only be cutting wood and foam nothing else so I would guess high rpm is where I will be most of the time anyway.

Unless you are using bits smaller than 1/8", at high speeds, you should rarely need to spin faster than 14,000-18,000 rpm.

[mactec54]

Ok so contacted Hitachi support and seems to be solved.

I screwed up A082. Had it set for 240v instead of spindle plate of 220v.
Next he had me set B083 "carrier freq" to 5 from the default 2. All of the rest of the settings you posted he said was fine. The spindle was much quieter and max temp after running at 24000rpm for 30min was 116deg F. So I raised carrier up to 6 and spindle got even quieter and temp dropped to 110F max. This is without a load. I attempted 7 but temp stayed constant at 110 so dropped it back to 6.

Now I changed B013 from constant to reduced torque and it had no effect.

As far as pins 1u,2v,3w having it wired that way the spindle runs in reverse. Is there a setting somewhere in there that changes the direction back so I don't have to swap wires? This is why I swapped the pins 1 and 2 in the first place but if they absolutely have to be 1u,2v,3w then its gonna take a really long time to cut stuff.

Now you were correct about the ohms. The readings are off. My digital ohm meter was reading 2ohm with the leads touching each other so if you subtract the 2 from the now reading 3.8 and you fall in the range 1.8 across all pins so spindle still good.

As far the the setting A152 there seems to be some confusion. I have seen another poster who tried to correct everyone but the confusion is still there. That setting along with A151 and A153 are in percents ONLY. Range is 0-50%. You cant set frequency there. Now A154 can be set as freq and A155 is in seconds so those are good. Its just those 3 settings A151 THRU 153 that are off. So if you have a recommended setting for that it can only be 0-50%

So I guess all is good. Temp still hitting 110F which for and air cooling spindle I guess will have to do. I will only be cutting wood and foam nothing else so I would guess high rpm is where I will be most of the time anyway.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in, if theres still any other suggestions for lowering the temp even more I'm open for suggestions. Thank!

Pumping 240 into the spindle could make it get a little hotter, the carrier frequency is a good one to change if to low, the default I checked is to low for these spindles so 5 even up to 10 should be ok with this VFD, this will make the spindle run quieter and smoother, I have this listed for this VFD to change this up to 5-10 some others have used larger numbers it has a max of 15, but this can cause Heating as well so check the heat until you get used to it,

I did not find anywhere in this VFD manual where you can reverse the rotation, so you have no choice but to swap 2 of the spindle wires, you should check this with the manufacture as to what they recommend for the U V W, this may have no affect on your spindle at all, but some will not run if this is phased incorrect

110F to 120F is normal for these spindles, so looks like your are good to go

You have no need to use any of the A151 152 153 Parameters just leave them at default

[sphinxxtreme]

Unless you are using bits smaller than 1/8", at high speeds, you should rarely need to spin faster than 14,000-18,000 rpm.

Good to know. I will have some experimentation with it as I have been using a router for the first test phases of the machine. Atleast now I will know for sure what speed the spindle is turning instead of guessing.

[mactec54]

sphinxxtreme

With the Torque settings you would not notice any difference unless you have the spindle under load

A154 and A155 can be use to assist with Deceleration

A154=100
A155=10