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  1. #49
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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Take the machine apart and get it up piece by piece with the help of REALLY strong men... that's all I can think of.

    I can buy DRO units from China because they're not big heavy stuff that costs a lot to ship. It makes almost no sense buying that direct unless you got enough volume to fill several containers. LTL shipment is very expensive, so expensive that it actually costs less to get an entire container than it is to get a quarter of it. So for one machine it's expensive but if you buy say 100-1000 machines then the cost per machine is very low. That's how people like Grizzly do it. It's not worth it for your average person unless they're ordering several machine shop worth of equipment. When I moved from Taiwan I wanted to move some equipment and I was quoted something like 10,000 dollars to move a few machine and stuff. I decided it made more sense to sell the stuff and buy it here in the states. As I didn't really have connections with anyone the equipment I could get in Taiwan is actually inferior to the stuff I can get here. You see in Taiwan you don't just call up Grizzly, Precision Matthews, Dro Pros, Woodcraft (for woodworking machines), MSC, etc. and order the machines you want. Nobody in Taiwan does machining or woodworking for a hobby so none of the equivalent retailers exist. You got Home Depot type stores that are actually glorified furniture store. It meant unless I really know the wholesalers, you can't get anything Grizzly or other "machine pimps" sell and are stuck with the few that sells very low quality machines.

    The weird thing about Taiwan though, is that it's actually easier to buy metalworking/machine shop machines than it is to buy woodworking machines. But gunsmithing is also a capital crime (with possible maximum penalty of death) in Taiwan so at the time I had little use for a mill/lathe...



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Hi....best of luck......my machine came fully assembled in it's enclosure in a large wooden packing case.....they fork lifted it onto my trailer at the shipping depot and I only had to do a lift with an engine crane with ropes to get it off the trailer and into the garage then onto a steel bench.

    If Trump has his way you won't be seeing many container loads of machinery coming your way while he presides, but I can't see any big business picking up the production in the short time he'll reign, so after that it'll be back to business as usual.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    I'm surprised people don't have shops in the basement. Disassembly becomes necessary if you have to move it up or down stairs. Engine hoist won't work on stairs.

    You're going to have to do alignment on machines anytime you move them so having to take them apart shouldn't be an issue.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    I have moved machines up and down stairs many times using a come-a-long, a 4x4 and a homemade plywood sled. The sled goes under the machine in question and slides up/down the stairs. The 4x4 goes across a doorway opening to attach the come-a-long to, and the come-a-long connects the 2 to raise or lower the machine up/down the stairs. I have moved machines weighing up to about 1000 pounds this way without problem. If the stairs are carpeted it works best as the sled could scratch the stair nose if the stairs are finished wood.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    What's wrong with disassembly? It makes things easier and not need elaborate sleds



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Hi....you guys are lucky as it seems basements are a common feature in US homes.......that's not a feature in OZ as we either build with a wood floor on stumps or on a concrete slab,

    Many times, if the house is on a slope, the garage is under the house so you get more use of the whole house footprint on the building block.......on flat land the water table would make a basement impractical.

    BTW........on the Taiwan topic.....a year or so back I bought one of those small dividing heads that go by the model no. BS-1 etc..........the dealers had 2 models, one by Toolmaster from China and the other by Vertek from Taiwan.

    The Toolmaster model was $100 cheaper than the Vertek so I bought the Toolmaster one.

    When I got it home I opened it up to see what made it cheaper.......well, long story short.....it was crap.......so I took it back and exchanged it for the Vertek model..... at no extra cost.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Actually, it depends on the part of the country.

    In the central part of the US basements are common because it's where you can put all sorts of utility things (washing machine, water heaters, etc.) but also provides a shelter against stuff like tornadoes. I have never seen them in Texas however and most of the utility stuff is in the garage. In my apartment the water heater is in a locked cabinet that only maintenance has access to (I think it's so someone doesn't mess with it and blow up the building).

    I ordered a Shars 8 inch 4 jaw chuck. I hope they are good but most of the Shars tool has been decent. I figure extreme precision is not necessary with 4 jaw chucks since you can dial out runout easily (this is also why people don't like 3 jaw chucks)



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Quote Originally Posted by taiwanluthiers View Post
    What's wrong with disassembly? It makes things easier and not need elaborate sleds
    It depends on the machine, stair geometry, and personal preference. There is nothing wrong with disassembly, but disassembly can range from simple to not so simple to a royal PITA.. A small bench mill is easy to disassemble, but a lathe not so much. What exactly is elaborate about a piece of plywood for a sled? Also, the method I mentioned is very simple. I would bet I could make my homemade skid (simply cut a piece of plywood to appropriate size) and have a machine in my basement before you could have the machine disassembled. I remembered since my last post that I put a 1300 pound gun/document safe in my basement last year using the method described, and there is nothing except the door that can be disassembled. From top of stairs to the basement took about 10 minutes. That one required a 4 wheel furniture dolly at the top and bottom of the stairs and no skid at all for sliding it down the stairs.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Lathes can be disassembled too, though it may take time.

    Fabricating sleds and inclines isn't always practical especially in an apartment... it would require construction space and other tools (such as a table saw) to erect a temporary structure and then time to dismantle that as well. Then figuring out where to put all that wood once they're not needed (or dispose of them and buy more should the machine need moving again).

    Also skids have an element of danger. If the rope breaks the 1000 pound machine will slide down and break whatever's at the bottom (as well as the machine). That's hard to explain to any landlord. Disassembling the machine on the other hand allows one or two people to carry each piece and it also allows you to inspect it for any defect or damage. All machines can be disassembled, unless there's some serious miracle at work that allows the machine to be made of one piece.

    Consulting the exploded diagram of the machine beforehand helps a lot... it allows you to see what the major pieces that can be safely and easily disassembled. For a lathe that's the cross slide, tailstock, motor, and possibly headstock. One guy said that once the headstock comes off they can never be put back together without messing up alignment but that makes no sense. Machine pieces can move and be knocked during moving, if it can't be realigned later on then the machine is worthless. I read from the exploded diagram of most lathes that the headstock sits on the V rail of the bed, so no way they can lose alignment since they are a part of the same plane.

    I wouldn't be taking the gearbox off of course, but Southbend does have instructions on disassembling a lathe for moving.

    http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_bl...for-Moving.pdf

    It's worth considering especially for any machine weighting more than 500 pounds. It would also be worth considering for say a full size Bridgeport that weights 4000lbs. It's easier to move several 400lb pieces than all of 4000lb at once!



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    I'm not arguing with you. If you prefer to disassemble then so be it. As I said,

    It depends on the machine, stair geometry, and personal preference. There is nothing wrong with disassembly, but disassembly can range from simple to not so simple to a royal PITA..
    I was simply posting another option for readers of this thread.

    If you want to discuss the element of danger, I would argue that being at the top of the stairs operating a come-a-long is a lot less dangerous that carrying pieces of a machine that could weigh 100's of pounds each by hand. One point is that I never said anything about ropes. a come-a-long is generally a cable or chain device, but even if using a rope, and the rope breaks, it falls down the stairs with nobody under it.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Wow, rented property.......and on the third floor........that is definitely a disassembly option.....one day you might want to move house so tearing it to bits and transporting it is not a big drama once you know how.

    I would also have to hope the floor can take the concentrated 500 lb loading....along with the fridge stove and washing machine(s) etc.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: benchtop precision

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    I'm not arguing with you. If you prefer to disassemble then so be it. As I said,



    I was simply posting another option for readers of this thread.

    If you want to discuss the element of danger, I would argue that being at the top of the stairs operating a come-a-long is a lot less dangerous that carrying pieces of a machine that could weigh 100's of pounds each by hand. One point is that I never said anything about ropes. a come-a-long is generally a cable or chain device, but even if using a rope, and the rope breaks, it falls down the stairs with nobody under it.
    Nahh.....a come-along doesn't have enough length to go up a 20 foot stair length....it'is a short lift device, either a chain or wire rope type.

    A 1 ton chain block would work better in that case, if it was an option, as they can work in both vertical and horizontal modes and have long lifting lengths.....BTDT.
    Ian.



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