Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

[SharpShooterSer]

The more I read about all this, and not having anyone to explain me the basics, I am about to toss everything. I did have good intentions and willingnes to learn, but all of this is either too hard for me to undersrand (and I believe I am clever enough to understand and learn a lot) or is it basicly poorly described. Online tutorials, video tutorials, everything is, in my point of view, "explained" in a way that someone without the quite good previous knowledge couldnt understand almost nothing.
Plus no one that I know personally that is operating machinery is using this software, and that makes thing even harder.
Thank you gents for your effort, but I have to pull the plug on this, or I will basicly go insane from frustration this is causing me.

[Fastest1]

Damn you are there. Why would you give up after the machine was working? Some people dont realize, this is a profession. Not for us but for those who do it well.

[SharpShooterSer]

Damn you are there. Why would you give up after the machine was working? Some people dont realize, this is a profession. Not for us but for those who do it well.

I know! I am almost there, but I am stuck. And I cant find a way to move forward. Every trade is learned by eyes (except welding) but I got no one to show me. And everything I try isnt working or it fails.
What good is it to me when I get the machine running, but I dint have a clue how to run jt the way I want it to? Knowledge base is large, but for those that know whats its saying. I dont (you saw my basic questions what to type and where in hal comfig files etc).
I ve learned manual machining from zero, and I am a economist, that used to work 10 years in the bank, and now I live from making parts on majual latge and mill. What I want to say I am capable of learning, but there jas to be some guiding and teaching process, that I lack in this.

[Fastest1]

Believe me I understand your frustration. I have felt the same way many times. In fact my latest pursuit of attempting to understand LinuxCNC makes me feel like I cant read. I have been a Mach user for years and am reasonably successful making what I need. They are not the same in any way I can tell. I was successful getting my lathe running though I couldnt tell if it was my Mach xml import that did it or something else. Then just like your case, I didnt understand how to modify the machine files (the entire vocabulary is different, though the process is most likely the same or similar), so it is on the back burner. Btw I built my first controller from a kit (Hobby CNC Pro) with no prior experience, converted a mill from a school auction, installed Mach had everything ready to go. Didnt know what a "Hotkey" was or how to assign it. I had no idea what GCode was. Now years later, I know a little more ;-)

Btw there are people near you who are doing this or want to. You just havent met them yet. Do they have a Makerspace in your area? Check into the college aged kids and ask about their open source community. There are people to help.

[Fastest1]

I know nothing about your area of the world however a quick search revealed there are such groups. RogLab: a makerspace can pop-up everywhere

I have found that these will be the people who sat in the front of the class in school ;-) and they are so willing to share information and knowledge.

[dertsap]

your not going to find a one stop shop for knowledge when it comes to cnc . guys/gals who take the cnc courses come out of school with only the basics . It takes time and patience . You'll need to learn about workshifts , tool shifts and g code .
g0 g01 are the two most commonly used codes . Get a grasp of these few things and it's a base to start cutting simple shafts etc . Don't expect to be starting off with more complex profiles .
No one is going to judge you for throwing in the hat , but you've come this far so why give up . Chip away at it and sooner or later you'll have a good idea of how to make things work .

[dertsap]

http://www.productivity.com/wp-conte...ing-Manual.pdf

[SharpShooterSer]

Thanks fellas for putting up with me.
Of course I am aware that I need to learn a lot about this and that it takes time. Heck, I bought the machines so I can learn and improve my knowledge. I understand the basics (G0 G1 G3 etc) and I did write several programs by hand and they were executed without problem in old welturn software. even in emc2. But these are so simple I can do it almost as fast on my manual lathe, or even faster, with the knowledge that I have now.
the cnc route was taken so I can do more complex things, without the need to go to some other shop and beg for small series of parts that I need (literally) . I was happy to get over welturn because of its g code limitations.
my lucky part is that I can get a g code generated elsewhere for the time being, but then its unlucky that they dont have anything that will correlate with emc2. literally no one in my vicinity smaller or greater, is using it. all of the shops use large industrial machines, that have fanuc, or siemens or whatever controllers, and theirs software is tuned for that. also the programmers, they know that, and nothing more, nor they intend to share or upgrade their knowledge. In only one shop I ve found here theres a Mach3 user.
As for schools, they are so outdated that the kids getting out of them are more clueless than I am. I tried that approach too, but they were looking at me like I am speaking Chinese.
So, yes, I can sit down and write the code by hand for everything I need, but thats not the point. To tweak a finished code, thats another matter and its expected.
Out of curiosity, I ve tried several example programs that are stored. Some work fine, but some, that has tool change in it, wont work - because I dont have a tool table set up. I wanted to do that, bought the tools that I will mainly need, tried to find info how to set a master tool and the following, but no luck? So I cant even do that, and its supposed to be simple.
I am wondering would it be easier with something other. And take in account that I am hesitating about purchasing software that no one can show me how to use, or that wont suite my needs - I am not stiff, but I have no dineros to throw around (average monthly pay here is $350), and there is some of that in a way thats influencing my judgement.

[SharpShooterSer]

Thats Slovenia - I chose that country because there is no Serbia in a list of countries They are a little far away from where I am at.

[SharpShooterSer]

It would require a bit of changing of the hal and ini. I could take a look at it.

sam

Jog speed is actually fine, shift key was faulty and didnt accept me touching it, so it only leaves the metric startup as dimensions.
Thanks

[Fastest1]

Ok Serbia then. Look for Hackerspace, Makerspace etc. These places are where people who understand it hang out. https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Hacklab_Belgrade

[SharpShooterSer]

No luck with finding someone willing to help with linuxcnc. Mainly because they are far away.
So I opted for another aproach - converting to modern electronics. Got the 2 Nm nema 23 motors (and fitted pulleys in reverse, shaft is too short), simple 5axis BOB and finally got the M542 drivers this morning (though there is no writing in them...).
Now to wire it up. From what I understand I can use one that is inside the housing, it has a 24v. Can it be used for BOB (with some hack?).
And for encoder connection, the current one can be used?

[SharpShooterSer]

No luck with finding someone willing to help with linuxcnc. Mainly because they are far away.
So I opted for another aproach - converting to modern electronics. Got the 2 Nm nema 23 motors (and fitted pulleys in reverse, shaft is too short), simple 5axis BOB and finally got the M542 drivers this morning (though there is no writing in them...).
Now to wire it up. From what I understand I can use one that is inside the housing, it has a 24v. Can it be used for BOB (with some hack?).
And for encoder connection, the current one can be used?

For Mach3 I have several options for help, thats why I will go that road. So far I ve figured out (I think) how to configure BOB, and hopefully I will have the rest of the wiring done by tomorrow. I would get some screenshots, but the workshop pc isnt hooked up to net (nor theres any in the shop lol).
What I havent read, or found, is do I have to configure motors for pulleys size, teeth number etc so it correlates properly to movement shown in Mach3?

[DICKEYBIRD]

Hiya S/S, save yourself some agony & use version .062 of Mach. v.066 Has problems. Also your encoder won't work in Mach unless you get a fancier ($$) external motion controller like CSMIO or similar. If your BOB is a parallel port type, Mach will only work with with a single pulse per rev indexer like https://cnc4pc.com/hardware/index-ho...ulse-card.html or an opto sensor with a a pull-up resistor. For threading with single pulse indexing you must have a very steady spindle speed at low revs. That means belt reduction drive & more horsepower than the EMCO has probably.

I, like you, have no way of learning Linux and found that threading inexpensively with Mach takes some work I'm afraid. Also true CSS won't work in Mach with P/P. G96 spindle speed variation with work diameter change works great but G95 (feed per rev) won't work with G96 at the same time. Doesn't bother me too much but some people freak out about it.

I really like Mach but if I was a younger man & doing this again I'd look very hard at climbing the Linux learning curve. Alas, it ain't gonna happen now!

[SharpShooterSer]

Well, I m not young nor old, something in between, but getting used to linux is kinda hard to happen. I have the will, but my brains aint working as they used to...

BOB is a simple 5 axis one, like this USB 5 Axis CNC Breakout Board Interface Adapter for Stepper Motor Driver Pump | eBay
I will soon have in hand this board - Benezan Electronics - maybe it can work with it?

I was suggested to try the following with current BOB:
The interrupter has 4 wires
+5 VDC
Ground
Count
Sync

Connect as follows:
+ 5VDC to +5 VDC power
Ground to Power ground
Count - Not Used
Sync to A Limit Pin 13

Configure Mach3 ports and pins SYNC to be INDEX

If this wont work, I will order a C3 card (its interesting that the C3 is the only one mentioned that can be used with Emco and Mach, I figure that there are some alternatives available). Opto sensor with a a pull-up resistor - any suggestions on this?
As for motor, mine is a AC type, with plenty of torque. Not sure about how steady the spindle speed is at low speed. I intend to use it with manual belt setting for now, but in the future, vfd will find its place in the back somewhere.

[SharpShooterSer]

Well, I m not young nor old, something in between, but getting used to linux is kinda hard to happen. I have the will, but my brains aint working as they used to...

BOB is a simple 5 axis one, like this USB 5 Axis CNC Breakout Board Interface Adapter for Stepper Motor Driver Pump | eBay
I will soon have in hand this board - Benezan Electronics - maybe it can work with it?

I was suggested to try the following with current BOB:
The interrupter has 4 wires
+5 VDC
Ground
Count
Sync

Connect as follows:
+ 5VDC to +5 VDC power
Ground to Power ground
Count - Not Used
Sync to A Limit Pin 13

Configure Mach3 ports and pins SYNC to be INDEX

If this wont work, I will order a C3 card (its interesting that the C3 is the only one mentioned that can be used with Emco and Mach, I figure that there are some alternatives available). Opto sensor with a a pull-up resistor - any suggestions on this?
As for motor, mine is a AC type, with plenty of torque. Not sure about how steady the spindle speed is at low speed. I intend to use it with manual belt setting for now, but in the future, vfd will find its place in the back somewhere.

While I wait for C3 board, lets give linux another try? Like I m 5 years old and starting to learn alphabet. Pointing me to tutorials has little effect, I ve read/watched a lot of them, and too many things in there are a real mystery, and frankly I cant use them.
I mean, I m not to cut something so complex on this so I need a Master degree, basicly couple of ball/handle shapes, and 2 threading operations for start.

[dertsap]

What is it that you figure you will gain by butchering your lathe to add windows based mach3 , above linuxcnc . The interface of linux isn't much different from windows and plugging in a usb to transfer a program is easy because the flash drive shows up on the linux desktop when you plug it in . While the interfaces between mach and linuxcnc may be somewhat different , they both function quite similarly .
Chances are that if your unsuccessful in programming and running a part in linuxcnc then chances are that you'll be in the same boat with mach . The coding is pretty much the same between the two .

Don't expect that it's all going to fall on your lap , no one learns this stuff by waiting around , and no one is going to hand feed it to you . Tutorials may appear to be a worthless effort , but over time they will be a wealth of knowledge and very valuable . I'm not young either but if I want something then I'll bite into it .

fusion 360 is a free cad program which also has cam built into it for programming mills and lathes , this might be a good start

[SharpShooterSer]

OK, there might be a point in what you are saying. In some of it.

I aint waiting, or excepting to have something hand feed to me. You are quite far off the mark there.
Its like you dont understand what Im trying to say - like I dont understand the bunch of things I read in the manuals and tutorials. Every single day for 5 or 6 hours I read, try to comprehend stuff that I have never encountered before, and its not soaking in quite fast (as much as I like). And most of that stuff is written like I know the previous stuff about linux itself, that I dont. If there was a course or a night school to go to I would go, I am willing to learn and I know how to byte on things, but there aint any -nobody here uses this (and just remember, I have no degree in mechanics, nor I went to a tech school - I was a banker, but I ve learned how to operate a manual lathe and a mill, by my self and with tutorials and help from another people, that had the right approach to a newbie).
Everyone here is based on Windows as an operating system and applications that goes with it, no one uses linux. There are guys in University in Belgrade, but they are into their own stuff, so no help from there either.
You remember back when I had to put a # mark in hal file on paraport thing, it took me 2 days to figure out what you wanted to say? And I aint dumb, far from that. Just everyone tends to speak like I understand whatever is said naturally, and I dont. And English istn my native language either.
If its too hard to say to a newbie - click here, than here, then type exactly this "*****" here, than, I dont know what to say.
And about fusion360, I have it installed, and along side with all this, I also try to figure it out.

For instance, I found this - https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/40-...i?limitstart=0
its very interesting, and I managed to get it to work as a stand alone (tutorials, right), but when I want to get it embeded, I get into trouble - theres too much tech stuff that I m not following (prolly didnt get that far with reading about it). But I will get it to work, because it looks just something I need for my work. This isnt a hobby for me.
Tutorials aint "worthless effort" its just the way they are written. And major setback is that I dont have an internet connection in the shop, where the machine and linux are, so I cant both read, test and try some stuff.
Thanks anyway.

[dertsap]

sorry if I sounded harsh or insulting , that wasn't my intent by any means . You said that the tutorials are a mystery and you can't use them . I don't see any other way to learn this without either someone walking you thru this , you take a coarse or learn thru tutorials . It doesn't matter if you are using a cnc control that is windows based linuxcnc , fanuc , heidenhain , hass or what ever , they will all communicate roughly the same . Which is why I don't see the point in crossing your machine to a windows based control when the machine is working as it should , and now only needs the proper communication to make it do what you need it to do

If my approach towards newbies is inadequate , then it is what it is . I'm a machinist not an educator , just as your a banker without mechanical degree
Either way , I was only trying to help .
Good luck

[SharpShooterSer]

I know youre intentions are good, and you did help me more than once - and Im grateful for that. All of the ways you mentioned are the right one - but I aint got anyone to walk me through, no courses to go to, and that leaves me with tutorials. Which I hardly follow. I would be perfectly happy to leave things as is, I dont have money to waste on new and expensive hardware (although I was a banker - that job gave me heart attack, literally). I take stuff directly to heart (I dont know the right expression) and it did felt harsh, but I know you meant well, and again I would like to say - thank you for trying to help me - you are the one of the few. And I would like you to continue to do so, if you still want it.
The thing is I have several of them that might walk me through windows based control, if they want, and that is a huge if, but I thought that might be a better way to get a hold of this stugg. I really want to try my best to get this going.
As for Fusion, I ve looked around for a proper P/P for emc2 turning, but came with nothing final, any thoughts on that?
Thank you again