X2 cnc finished for now maybe

[alexccmeister]

I'm lovin it so far.
It cuts ballscrews like butter, chef recommends
Only thing I didn't like is the crossfeed scale. It's setup for radius, I prefer diameter.
If I need to take .500 off the diameter, I want to turn the crossfeed .500.
I'll just paint over the numbers for now, when the DRO is put on It won't matter.
When I CNC it, I'm definitely leaving it manual capable too.
Hoss

Hi Hoss,

I think you just got me started with the questions. Hope you don't mind me asking.

I am not thinking so much about making the lathe both manual and cnc but more the latter. Can you advice how you would go about syncing the spindle to the leadscrew or ballscrew of the Z axis? Any suggestion as to what encoder card (from cnc4pc maybe?) you may be using and what controller you would use for the cnc lathe? Mach, Turbocnc or EMC2? I am planning to convert my lathe but I think I better do my research first before starting on the conversion. A few things to get and I don't want to get the wrong one. Thanks.

Alex

PS. The video of the live tooling rocks. That is so so cool. Hope I can do that too. Can I use the DC motor for my current C3 spindle to do that. I mean going forward and reverse at an instant?

[hoss2006]

When I teach myself how to do all that alex, I'll pass on the info.
I'll be sure to link to the new thread when I get rollin.
This is the
Hoss

[hoss2006]

Did a little mild steel milling. Made a threading tool holder for the lathe.
Patterned it from the unit from Aloris Tool.
It uses this threading blade that cuts the ballscrew threads no problem and will last forever!
Give the tool a little grind on top and it's good to go for the next job.
I've used carbide insert threading tools but they are just too brittle.
Milled the steel with a .750 HSS endmill @ 2500 rpm, .025 DOC.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_zvqblTGEo"]Threading Tool Milling

[sansbury]

Hi Hoss,
Can you advice how you would go about syncing the spindle to the leadscrew or ballscrew of the Z axis? Any suggestion as to what encoder card (from cnc4pc maybe?) you may be using and what controller you would use for the cnc lathe? Mach, Turbocnc or EMC2?

EMC uses an encoder to track spindle RPM. EMC requires a 1-pulse-per-rotation encoder for threading which is pretty simple to rig up. I assume Mach is similar but don't know.

Can I use the DC motor for my current C3 spindle to do that. I mean going forward and reverse at an instant?

Probably not so much. Reversal at speed and positional accuracy (e.g. ability to index the shaft to a known position) are more the forte of AC servo motors. I don't know if anyone has ever tried to upgrade a lathe like this with a DC servo--the 7x10s are small enough that it might work.

Another solution is to ditch the lathe entirely, mount the headstock on the mill table, and replace the brushed DC motor with a stepper. You can use this for 4-axis work and turn-milling for regular round parts.

Another option which may work for small length/diameter parts is to chuck them right in the collet of the mill (or mount a chuck) and bolt a toolpost on the table, or just clamp a bit right in the vise. Search "mill as lathe" for examples. While the envelope is limited, if your parts will fit this is easily the cheapest and simplest way to get a CNC lathe if all you have is a CNC mill.

The other thing though is that these machines are a lot simpler mechanically than they are software-wise. If you're making five or ten round parts with a flat on them, then turning them on an ordinary lathe and slapping them in a vise on your mill is probably going to take less time than writing and debugging the program to do it all in one cycle. At some point the number of features and/or parts changes the equation. This is also why I think you see a lot more CNC mills than lathes, even in "real" shops.

[sansbury]

Hoss, question for you on the Z-axis design. I finished most of mine over the weekend and was wondering about the use of steel for the flange that the pulley mounts on. Is there an important reason why this is steel rather than aluminum?

While I was able to turn it OK on my 7x10 (filled up most of a trash can with swarf--anybody need some steel wool?) it adds a lot of weight and it cost me two 6-32 taps which I was luckily able to work around. Those were some of my last hardware store taps and I won't be buying any more.

[hoss2006]

I used steel for strength and durability but I know a couple of others
have made the large upper flange from aluminum and should be fine.
The small lower flange has the thrust bearing running against it so
steel would really be best for it.
Hoss

[katit]

Hoss,

Sorry for unrelated question, but...

I need lathe. That will be my first lathe, I'm doing lot's of reading and people seem to give 10x22 grizzly lathe very good reviews. I'm not planning on CNC-ing it.

But I get mixed suggestions. Many people suggest not to deal with chinease lathe and buy old american. After researching old american - I stopped on SouthBend heavy 10 as a model I need to look for which will cost little more then Grizzly 10x22

What is your thought on that? Did you consider old american equipment vs new import? Why did you pick that Grizzly unit?

Thanks a lot,
Ivan

[hoss2006]

If that South Bend is in pretty good shape I'd jump all over it.
Can't beat good old American Iron, they can last for decades, just look at where I work
I just couldn't muscle all that mass into my basement which is why I went for the grizzly.
I had a chance to bid on a used one from work but had no way to get it down there.
The 10x22 will certainly make everything I need to make and is plenty heavy duty,
but it is Chinese and will need more tlc over the years than the AI I imagine.
Hoss

[katit]

If that South Bend is in pretty good shape I'd jump all over it.
Can't beat good old American Iron, they can last for decades, just look at where I work
I just couldn't muscle all that mass into my basement which is why I went for the grizzly.
I had a chance to bid on a used one from work but had no way to get it down there.
The 10x22 will certainly make everything I need to make and is plenty heavy duty,
but it is Chinese and will need more tlc over the years than the AI I imagine.
Hoss

I have exactly same concern. Currently I see decent Clausing locally with tools, etc. My only issue that I will have to hire somebody to move it to my place, it's probably 800lb. And I may move soon and will have to deal with it again. Maybe I should get new lathe to learn on and then if I like it and know what I want I will get something else. Same as I loose money on moving AI I will loose money on grizzly depreciation. I will use it as a tool to make tools and whatnot around house. I don't see muself using it much at all..

[hoss2006]

Yeah, that's exactly why I went with the 10x22, it's the biggest lathe that I could possible
handle moving myself.
Still needed a chain hoist to lift it but that was only $50.
A good AI lathe will have to wait for the day I get a house with a real workshop.
Hoss

[antichip]

I could of got a clausing 18x48 or something like that for 500 dollars, yay what a dream, where to put it? Oh well someone in tampa got a steal on a nice unit.

[katit]

Guys. I think you made my mind. It sure will be easier to start making chips and not hunting that rare part on eBay or restoring. Maybe some other day...

[hoss2006]

A little update on the flood coolant enclosure.
Still working great, pump strong and quiet, no clogging.
Wouldn't change a thing.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjsIi6Fnzo"]Flood Coolant Update

[hoss2006]

Have a couple more items available for the CNC Conversion.
The steel Z Axis mount and the 32 tooth Timing Pulley
which is threaded 15/16-16 for the ballnut.
Hoss

[HackMax]

Wow Hoss that video really shows you're in production mode! Super job on that coolant system. I plan on putting something on my x3 in the near future. Keeping an eye on your setup for ideas. My setup will be used for production and I need to find a way to keep the chips under control as well as cooling. LOL I have only cut a few pieces of metal so far and the floor is silver.

Rick

[hoss2006]

I ground a piece of 1/2 inch lathe toolsteel and made myself a .125 broaching tool.
Chucked it up in my lathe attachments toolpost and let the Z axis go to town.
It worked!
Tested it out on a 1/2 piece of 60/61.
Only had it cut .001 per pass but got the job done.
The program I wrote made a .100 keyway.
Now if a pulley comes along that needs a keyway, no problemo.
Here's my program.

(BROACHING .650 x .001 DEEP)
G90
G0 X0 Y0 Z.100
M98 P1 Q100
G90 G0 Z.100
M30
M2

O1
G90 G01 Z-.650 F15
Z.100
G91 G0 Y-.001
M99

Check out the Video.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxjCEwsQK4"]Z Axis Broaching

[Adamj12b]

Wow great job. Ive been wanting to try this on my x2 for awhile, but haven't had time. Ive needed to cut a bunch of keyways and am happy to know that its possible with this method.

Have you tried cutting the keyway with an 1/8" end-mill first and then using the lathe tool to square the ends? You would be able to take a much heavier cut.

-Adam

[ataxy]

hey hoss so far you would say that you are getting what kind of precision out of your freak by that i would mean the average of what you are off nomather the tool or distance travel... again does this sound like a logic question basiclic i want to know what in general you can expect out of it so far
also so far i have notice that you have not, well from what i see, use that swivel pivot for you head so woulnt you get better precision out of a straight block of aluminium

[hoss2006]

Hey ataxy,
no I haven't used the swivel or tilt since showing it off when I made it other than tramming.
My column is bolted solidly to the base so I can't use that to tram.
Will use it someday no doubt so it's nice that it can tilt and swivel.
I've only tilted the head on a bridgeport at work maybe 3 times in 15 years
but it was nice that I could.
I think my pocketing videos show that it's not suffering from any ill effects from being extended.
Hoss

[X2cnc]

I've been waiting for you to put a stepper up there and turn the swivel head into a fifth axis!

You'd have to do B-axis motion by combining X and Z, though.

As a CNC newbie I'm still not sure what I would use a 5th axis for.