build thread g0704/flashcut cnc

[charliex]

I've been looking to get a cnc for a while, looed at the tormach etc, ended up with a G0704 conversion.

I have the G0704 mounted on the stand, ready for conversion. I looked and talked to a few different vendors about getting parts for the conversion, it wasn't always easy to get answers or lead times, i understand most are mom and pop etc so expectations are what they are. But it seemed like most were behind by a few months or more, and luckily i got a bonus at work so after reading about the flashcut and taling to them a bit, it seemed ok. They're definitely expensive, and i don't like the way the quote system works on the web, especially that you can quote for sets they won't actually sell to you, but enough people have said their part about that i guess. I went with the higher amperage $3,500 kit.

Box arrived yesterday, opened it up. Usual buckwheatish packing pellets in a flimsy box, but not damage on the outside.



Each item was wrapped in bubble wrap internally,



The flashcut controller was in another box, wrapped in polythene or somesuch, i would have liked to see an ESD bag, since there was a lot of charge imbalance in the packing material, and better safe than sorry, they're not expensive.



All the parts out



Some details

Stepper a bit scratched up


Manual/Software on CD's, I think it is also available online, my pc doesn't have a CD so i'll be looking for that. The CD labels are stickers and they were bubbled and peeling off, cheaper low volume production type of affair. I'd rather see the stickers put on the case instead, CD's are already temperamental.



stepper brackets



discolouration was there from the opening.



Finish is ok, they're a little rough.



Off to find a CD drive and take a look over the manuals..

cheers

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[charliex]

Copied over the CD's from an old laptop, installed the software, the installer sat looking dumb (no progress bar update) for about 10 minutes before installing then all was good. It's a MFC /SDI syle win32 app, looks like visual C++ 2008, they're using the cypress usb drivers ( maybe an FX) ( same as the torchmate, from the look of the filenames of the torchmate seems to be the same vendor?)

Poked around it a bit, it nice and simple, no fanciness just plan UI design, which i like. I tried the demo a few days ago and it'd crashed within 30 seconds of using it, but working so far. The art redraw/reaction time of the GUI is a little bit sluggish, but seems to work loading fles and clicking around.

Now i have to actually install the hardware and connect it all up to see if it does stuff.

[charliex]

Installed the kit this morning..

mounted the sprockets on the motors, 1" away


this is where they sit


all three done


removing the X axis wheel, the keyway is a little shorter than the slot i noticed



kept all the parts together, putting them that fit in the plastic bags for each section





nuts and bolts to mount the steppers onto the plates



all mounter and marked, z cable goes in a different direction





belts added, gates 150 and an optibelt zr 130



snug fit



removing the Y axis mount


added the spacer and sprocket





and mounted with spacers, belt added, not tightened the stepper yet






putting the extra bits in bags


black end stops, i'd leave these off itle ht end in case you need to tweak something inside they pop off but weaken each time, came out the bag like this.





x axis



[imghttps://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4i4plaE9_cU/U9UtglABI4I/AAAAAAAAqgg/5towoJa58g0/w1315-h987-no/20140727_094008.jpg[/img]

bits in bags again


end stops, the manual doesn't mention removing the bolts from the machine first, only mistake i found so far.




z axis

remove this, store away


what it looks like before


z added, sprocket added.


the Z is definitely the fiddly one, the spacers can drop in a nicely sized hole at the front that luckily goes all the way to the drip pan, my heart sank when i heard it fall inside. The bolts were not easy to get in for the last 4mm or so. Hard to do with a standard L allen, t-bar much better.

added the tset screw


all together



added the box, 123 was xyz, interesting thing, no E-STOP, just the off toggle.




installed the software.... Until now everything was pretty smooth, the manual made sense and was well laid out, i'd have liked to see a few tips and tricks and some more detail about pulling the table/leads screw forward but otherwise great.

So the software, I had the demo on the machine from when i first looked at it, i'd opened it, clicked and around and it had crashed, so i left it alone. Tried out the "live" version on my other cnc's pc and it worked. So first thing, remove the demo software, did that.

Reinstalled the "live" software from the CD, ok so far, run it. It says my machine config file is too new and can't be opened, pick another, ok cancel, nope cancel says i need a config file or i can't continue ! (how about or re-run the wizard?)

Ok uninstalled it again, delete the registry keys i see, and the flash cut data software folder, all gone, install again. Nope same issue, take another look , its using a ProgramData folder too, uninstall leaves a lot of stuff behind. So i remove that, re-run it and the wizard pops up.

I did try to download the newer version of the live software, put my name/email/serial and u/p but it seems you have to register somewhere first, and i didn't feel like screwing around with it, plus the demo version is the newer one, and thats the one that crashed for me. So figured i'd go with the one that shipped and figure out the rest when i'm not in the sun.

so c:\ProgramData\FlashCutCNC..etc. deleted all that folder...

Set the machine, type options and jogged it around a bit. Noticed no obvious E-STOP in the software either, i must be missing it, there is a pause by the looks of it for the GCODE, but E-STOP and pause aren't the same. Loaded the Flashcut cnc example gcode file, their logo, and ran it, machine moved around fine.

The speed settings are "faster/slower" buttons (so far that i've found ) that's leaving a bit to be desired i think, i like the simplicity but that's really simple. Anyway everything moved around as it should..

I made a video of it, moving around but its just the motors moving the table.

DIdn't have time to pick up bits and stuff from LMS on friday, so that is where i'm stopping for now...

cheers!

[charliex]

terrible video

[charliex]

I pulled the Z sprocket and bolts and added a couple of washers to the bolts, just couldn't get the screws all the way in and they were a little loose.

[charliex]

redid the y sprocket it wasn't quite far enough on the lead screw.. much more similar to the picture in the manual now.

[pippin88]

$3500 and uses stock screws and bearings?

[charliex]

yeah, i know,.. stock everything, flashcut guys said they dont want to sell conversion kits that require any hardware mods, for one.. 8A version of the controller, the 2.5A(i think) is $2500

[datac]

$$$ Wise, one needs to understand that Flashcut does have a slightly different position in the market. A lot of the items they provide are specifically targeted at the non-hobbyiest where perhaps a small company has a machine they want to retro or get under control, but really can not afford to let one of their employees spend a few months accomplishing it. If we look at other G0704 conversion threads, they can span some months before you see that the project worked whereas frankly, YOU are posting videos of the machine moving in a WEEKEND. Now THAT IS worth SOMETHING !!!. So in this regard, the money is not the biggest part of the decision for a scenario like that, and you get really good control software to boot.

At the hobby level however, I think most Flashcut users end up building their own cabinet with power supply and drivers of choice, but then use just the Flashcut software and signal generator because of the utter convenience and no nonsense operation. The Flashcut forum does clearly show that the program certainly has all the features people expect, it also shows that it is a product that really does work without the glitches or even the efforts sometimes required to find out why something doesn't work the way you would think it should. For many people, the cost of the software and SG is WELL worth the cost of that alone, and I believe that sells for something around the $1200 mark.

Regards your start up quirks, I'd think that would be pretty typical for any new user..... Once you have used the product for a while, it ends up being a pretty routine event getting things up and running. It seems like your being patient enough to walk thru anything you have turned up. I love the program, and would not bother with anything else out there at this time. One thing that I really like is that I can run it with a laptop, and the laptop does not have to have ANY specific configurations. And, I don't have to wrestle anything else to make things work either.

The cabinet you have there really does have some awesome motor drivers in it. I have one of those on a machine too that once had a very popular competitors drives running it. The difference was night and day between them. It's like a whole different machine. So, once all dialed in (and with any cnc control that you are allowed to "adjust", there is PLENTY to fiddle with), I think it would be an excellent machine with certainly only the machine hardware leaving some things to be desired as I tend to find with ALL imported iron (I've got an older Novakon... its not the quality of a 1940's piece of American history, but we all know that).

Regards your E-stop issue. Well, first lets talk about why. It is my opinion that every machine needs a extremely accessible E-Stop. But, that can mean different things depending on what the machine is. The environment of a Sherline on a desk is obviously far different than that of a 6' x 10' Router or Plasma cutter. And, it really is the builder to make darn sure he has done EVERYTHING necessary to make it a safe environment whether that means a single mushroom head switch, multiple switches, perimeter cable switches, even human motion detection as in the case of robotic work zones.

In your case, if you are mounting that cabinet within arms reach of that switch, it might not be so bad, after all, your not usually dealing with wicked fast rapid rates on a machine like that. Now it would be a lie to say that I've never seen a "runaway" with Flashcut because I have. I have used Flashcut on a dozen or so machines over the years, and there are all sorts of things that can introduce such "issues" (Interference from simple power surges to plasma and carbon arc torch activation). I find that 95% of my operational needs are solved with the Feed Hold. I have some machines where the hit ANY KEY "feed hold' feature is enough because a person happens to be standing right there by the keyboard on some machines, but yet on others, I have installed dry contact switching or wireless remote control of the feed hold on machines where there is the chance I am not standing there. All plenty easy to configure in Flashcuts I/O.

Myself though, I fully agree with having a very real mushroom button and I too am confused why they have just have not gone with one in place of that rocker. A twist to release style would act like a similar switch and add the protection most of us are used to. I know if I made those cabinets.... they would have an E-Stop button.

The key here though is that it does come down to the user making sure he covers all the bases, and in a lot of cases, that means building a safety interlock system PRIOR to their cabinet because it is essentially just a driver cabinet. When it is time for an E-Stop, Dropping power to that whole cabinet which includes the SG in this case is just fine. E-stop is to be the last ditch effort, not just with motion, but also spindle and whatever else can be a dangerous situation. I'd build an auxiliary cabinet to plug the Flashcut driver cabinet into, along with the main spindle power prior to any inverter. The switch can be placed in one or more convenient places. Some people will opt to locate that Blue Flashcut box right inside another NEMA cabinet with that electrical interlock. This way the driver cabinet is OE stock for any warranty issues.


I would LOVE to have a G0704 with Flashcut on it !

I think I need to put that on my Bucket List.

[charliex]

Hey Chris,

Thats pretty much exactly my reasoning, I read all the threads, spreadsheets watched lots of video and saw that a lot of people were talking a couple of years to do the conversion, I like building the machines, i can make my own drivers, write my own software ( i've done it before ) ,but this time I didn't really want to have another build a machine to build a machine project. I checked out other vendors and each one seems to sell partial kits, with potentially months of waiting lists, there are modifications that i had a hard time finding out exactly what was involved, they might be a lot simpler than I thought though.

I installed the kit in a few hours, it took me longer since i was taking pictures as a i was going along. I lucked out in that I got some extra cash at work that was unexpected and that switched me to this kit, most of the other motor mount kits i've seen are about $800, so that plus control hardware and software, it's getting close, the flashcut is definitely on the expensive though, most people seem to give the software good reviews, and i do like most of the simplicity.

Yeah the fact there is no e-stop is definitely strange, even my cheapo ebay special CNC 3020 has one. The feed hold has latency on it, it's as bad as 800ms on some operations since the software/laptop isn't really in control, the box is, also if you fumble and hit two keys it can start again, something an e-stop wouldn't allow. I noticed if you pressed certain keys ( a i think) it'd complain about the position changing, using it as a feed hold. I agree its upto me to ultimately make it safe, but there is no question it should have an e-stop, just seems common sense.

Things like not including limit/home switches, it is only a few bucks of hardware, maybe most people don't use them ? They're certainly useful on my other cnc's. They're an additional cost, though its doubtful I can buy them from flashcut for close to what i can buy the parts for, plus don't know if i'd want to go with microswitches for a machine that generates that much mess. It's not much of an add to the raw cost of the kit, but when i opened the box I did have a an initial, huh is that all there is.

Obviously they know their kit is higher priced, since they use that quote system. Even for kits they won't actually sell you. So far I'm happy, and I'm trying not to think too hard about the cost of it,and just focusing on the fact I've got it almost running in a short time, thats basically why i was ok paying it.

cheers,
charlie

[charliex]

Made my first cut, smallest endmill i had in that size, did a quick test in redwood first.

these are the settings i modifed, size of the cutting area i changed so the back of the vice didn't jam on the accordian covers.

out of the box default setup the z-axis is inverted and the lead screw settings were half of what they should be for the XY and just under half on the Z.







I am winging it.


Also i did notice the "e-stop" switch is an accessory add on....

I've ordered 40A SSR's, the molex connectors for the back for the limit switches and relay control, also picked up one of those touch probes from ebay that are listed for linuxcnc

[charliex]

I was looking around at the various droplet delivery systems vs misters, and i realised i had one of these in the garage. they're about $14



It is battery powered and has three nozzle settings for a continuous stream/drops/more drops settings. It also has a trigger lock so you can put it on lock, then add a little timer/relay to it to make it spray intermittently the lever is not analogue so the longer you press it the more comes out, so you can also just preset the trigger to where you want it then use a switch inline with the battery (or power supply)

different settings.








the delivery tube is in a harder outer shell tube, which can be removed so you just get a semi flexible tube to position.

[charliex]

Today I added a Crafty CNC touch probe to the machine, i did try to find out about the flash cut cnc one they offered, but they don't reply to their own quoting system, tried a few times and gave up after a week and ordered one from ebay.

CNC Touch Probe for Mach3 Linuxcnc 5 Foot Cable Length | eBay "CNC Touch Probe for Mach3, LinuxCNC - 5 foot cable length"

¼” shank (useable in CNC routers using ¼”collet) - [NOTE: if requested, I can provide turned down to 1/8"]
Small overall size (body is 1” diameter, 1.25”tall)
Comes with two interchangeable hardenened/ground stainless tips (.045” and .073” diameters provided)
Uses standard M3-.5 metric thread, so you can use standard CMM style probe tips if you like (CMM styple probe not included in this sale, picture showing a ‘ruby tipped’ probe is for reference only)
Adjustment screws so you can eliminate runout between shank and probe tip (this is important if you want to use the probe for accurate edge finding/centering of bores
Detachable 5’ cord, makes it easier to set the probe up for adjusting runout (chuck probe in spindle and rotate against a dial indicator to dial it in)
Probe activation force may be adjusted by replacing internal spring (3 springs: Heavy, medium, and Xtra-light NOW INCLUDED!)


I'd probably choose the 1/8" option next time. For my Little Machine Shop startup kit, it fit a little tight

Out of the box it is definitely a lot of force needed to trigger it, it'll work for anything but soft rubbers etc. It is nicely made and comes with a JST connector, personally i'd like to see the wire come out the side or the top and not the bottom though, i hooked it up to the line 8 and ground in flashcut





parts, i got different sized pins for different cable AWG's


ran a quick test




left it runinng doing a probe of the first aluminium cut i ran



Took me about 15 minutes today to add it into the controller, and set it up in the software to at least have it do an "uncalibrated" test.

Hopefully this links to a video of it doing a rough test.
https://plus.google.com/103597034352...34352682332839

digikey parts list

WM23707-ND CONN RECEPT 16POS DUAL
WM9155CT-ND CONN TERM FEMALE 16AWG GOLD
WM2503CT-ND CONN TERM FEMALE 22-28AWG TIN
WM2501-ND CONN TERM FEMALE 18-24AWG TIN WM3704-ND CONN RECEPT 10POS DUAL

Next i'm adding an SSR relay controller box.

[Kenny Duval]

I've got one of those probes. It works well. You could change the spring in it out for something softer if needed. The cable coming out of the bottom isn't really a problem. I loop the cable over something above the probe when it's in use anyway.

[charliex]

Hi Kenny,

Yep i've changed the spring to the medium and its running a test at the moment, the cable out the bottom hasn't been a problem, it's just a preference. I did notice its easy to knock the probe off the spheres it sits on, also just as easy to put it back. its a nicely made probe.

I have a wierd thing where flashcut just stops for no apparent reason, i can continue the job but it'll just stop as if the feed hold has been pressed, i emailed the tech support guy, see if they have any ideas.

[Kenny Duval]

Hi Kenny,

Yep i've changed the spring to the medium and its running a test at the moment, the cable out the bottom hasn't been a problem, it's just a preference. I did notice its easy to knock the probe off the spheres it sits on, also just as easy to put it back. its a nicely made probe.

I have a wierd thing where flashcut just stops for no apparent reason, i can continue the job but it'll just stop as if the feed hold has been pressed, i emailed the tech support guy, see if they have any ideas.

I keep mine in the holder I made that also covers the Z axis crank hole. Keeps it in a safe place and is easy to get to when I need it.

[charliex]

nice, i wonder if he has a touch off tool as well, since the touch off is mostly an inverted touch probe.

[Kenny Duval]

After talking with the guys over a Calypso that do the Mach Standard Mill enhancement for Mach 3 I just made mine out of some half in aluminum plate and some single side copper clad fiberglass board. It stay mounted on the table. I use the probe as my master tool so everything gets measured against it via the touch plate.

[charliex]

that is the style i have for my pcb cnc, i was looking at the sprung type, so it pushes the tool into it and measures it when the circuit breaks vs makes.

though for my pcb mill the copper touch off has been fine, yours is nicely done though

[charliex]

did a scan of about .07 2" x 1.8" at 3ipm, after looking at the point cloud i should have done a smaller more detailed run. oh well.

data.
http://www.goth.am/pc/data/logo.txt

modern browser+webgl you can see the point cloud SRV - Point Cloud Viewer just click on logo.txt at the side , straight out of flashcut (with comma delimit) keys 1,2,3,4 change colour, - amd + change point size.

i guess i should try some tool steel or marble.