Reply with Quoteumm, that's typical of ALL chinese made machine tools such as this... You need to grind, lap, or scrape the ways to make them worth a damn.
A Warning about Grizzly and the G0704 mill
So,
I was planning and really excited about doing a G0704 mill cnc mill conversion. I bought Hoss's plans and have been bugging him with emails asking only those question a newby can, and to his credit he has been answering all of them. To Hoss, a debt of gratitude. So after much debate I ordered my G0704 and excitedly waited for it to arrive. It did, cleaned it, it made some noises when running in, ran a little hot and the usual stuff. Then I started to look closely and the biggest problem that I noticed was that the ways on the z axis and one side of the y were unfinished, in fact they were rougher than some files that I had in my tool box. I contacted Grizzly and they gave me a real runaround, speaking to different people, people not calling me back when they should, making promises and this went on for a few weeks. Finally I got tired, re-packaged the machine and sent it back after being told that as soon as they got the shipping number that they would send me another. The new machine never arrived and after me chasing them again, because i kicked up such a stink, they are giving me a full refund! Ok, but I don't want a refund I want another machine. There answer to that, they have decided to terminate our business arrangement and even if I try and buy another machine they won't sell it to me! I'm really blown away and don't understand how they can do business like this. I'm actually reeling from the whole thing. The worst part is I still want the mill.
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umm, that's typical of ALL chinese made machine tools such as this... You need to grind, lap, or scrape the ways to make them worth a damn.
I think that is a broad overgeneralization. My G0704 mill didn't have the deficiencies shown in the wheeliecake's pictures.Originally Posted by Mr. G
Wheeliecake: two possibilities. 1) purchase another G0704 through a friend or relative. 2) look into the PM20MV by Precision Matthews, although the table looks a little smaller than the G0704
Titaniumboy
I would expect to see that sort of finish on cosmetic, non-mating surfaces only. But the machine is very low cost, so you can't expect perfection out of the box. You probably cost Grizzly the profits of 10 machines by sending it back, so it understandable that they would not want to risk it a second time.
Assuming that it is typical of the G0704, the ways on my SX3 has a much better finished, but it has inferior gibs which must be worked. Compromise is inevitable.
Maybe, have any pictures of the way surfaces on your machine? I have never seen one that did not have tool marks like that, the one looked pretty extreme and may have been beyond help, but some of the other surfaces could be lapped out.
I do, this pic shows the smooth surface of the z gibs that was typical of all the mating surfaces on my mill straight out of the box.
Ron you got a bad deal as I said in the email. Someone was asleep at the factory.
As I suggested give Matt a call at Precision Mathews about the pm25mv.
Hoss
Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here. - Roy Batty -- [URL]http://www.g0704.com[/URL]
Risk what? Grizzly has nothing to risk, they sent out a bad machine and now someone else is going to get stuck with it. I guess the only thing they have to risk is sending the mill to someone who knows what to look for in terms of defects.
You are basically saying that the OP is at fault for this situation...which is not the case at all.
That mill is defective from the factory and its Grizzly's own damn fault for letting their QA guy/machine operator sleep/drink on the job.
The fact they don't stand behind their product concerns me...not sure I am going to take the chance on a $3000 lathe after reading this.
Grizzly stood behind my dads 3000 lathe without a problem. 3 spindle motors to get a good one, but now it runs nice.
Drock hit it. It is a risk thing. Some stuff is OK (never great) and some is absolute junk. Grizzly is one of the big boys. I have a G3103 that I really like, but I went to the Grizzly store in PA and saw one in person on their showroom floor. I feel that it was one of the better products available from them, but it took a lot of work on my part to get it working to my standards. I had an X2 that took an extraordinary amount of work to even get functioning. If you are going to buy one of these chinese made machines, you have to accept that you may get an OK one, or you may get a crappy one, no one vendor of any of them has shown to get machines to customers that are consistent.
wheeliecake - The machining marks you show in your pictures does look a nit rough, but it is hard to tell from a picture. My G0704 has machining marks on the ways of all 3 axes. On my machine the machining marks can be felt by running a fingernail across the surface. I do not feel that the machining marks on my machine are a detriment to operation and actually feel that they are probably a benefit in that they trap way oil similar to how a scraped surface does thereby aiding in lubrication. On my machine I performed a light lapping of the ways on all axes and and they all operate very smoothly with no slop and no rough operation. Like I said, the pictures you posted look like your surfaces are a bit more coarse than mine, but I just wanted to share my experience.
As for your experience with Grizzly, it is surprising to me. I own the G0704, a G4000 lathe, a couple Grizzly woodworking machines, and my father owns an entire shop full of Grizzly woodworking tools including cabinet saws, large planers, sanders, shapers, etc. We have always had great service from Grizzly.
The ways on the G704 should be ground. They are fairly good quality. Yours was a mistake.
LatheMasters did carry the LM-25 that is the exact same mill as the 704 but he orrders them with some treatment to the ways. Felt by hand the are nice and smooth. The picture makes them look ruff but they are not.
I had both machincs and they are the exact same castings but trimed out slightly different.
Grizzly will treat you like a number but the do fix the problem most the time.
Your machine from the perspective of the factory in the aviation business would be called an "escape". Escaped the factory with a defect. I've had (2) G0704's both had great ways. Your marks look like they were roughed down, and someone forgot to finish it up, either by hand or by grinding. I don't know how you handled the issue from your end, but that is sad they would not ship you another. I'm sure ill see that machine end up at the Surplus tent sale this year. I''ll be sure to pass on that project. This is the first way related issue i've heard of on the forum.
-109JB if your ways look that bad...
Where are you getting your skewed information from? There are thousands of pictures of Chinese machines posted here on the CNCZone and ninety nine percent of them have casting that are finished pretty damn good.
Substituting a jelly roll for a crack pipe may correct bad vision,
JoeyB
A doughnut a day keeps the doctor away.
Joey you still making donuts? Jellllyyy num num num. Make any Vegan ones?
Grizzly is bragging so much about the big shop in Bellingham where all machines are inspected and repaired if need be.
I didn't say that mine looked like the OP's and actually said the OP's look rough. They certainly look rougher than mine, but it is hard to tell how rough something is from a picture. Maybe you are better at it than me, but a picture can deceive. Take a close enough picture of anything and it looks rough. The OP posted 4 pics of some ways. 3 pictures showed ways that still had cosmoline on them and the 4th looked dirty. Yes you can clearly see machining marks on his ways, but I personally can't tell how truly rough it was from the picture. When I run my finger over his picture of his ways it feels pretty darn smooth to me..-109JB if your ways look that bad...
What I said about my ways is that mine had machining marks remaining that you can feel with a fingernail. You can't feel them running the pad of your finger on the ways, only when you drag a nail perpendicular to the surface. I also said that my machine operates very smoothly with no slop and no roughness in operation. Mine look very much like the ones posted by arizonavideo but without the scrape marks.
I didn't say that mine looked like the OP's and actually said the OP's look rough. They certainly look rougher than mine, but it is hard to tell how rough something is from a picture. Maybe you are better at it than me, but a picture can deceive. Take a close enough picture of anything and it looks rough. The OP posted 4 pics of some ways. 3 pictures showed ways that still had cosmoline on them and the 4th looked dirty. Yes you can clearly see machining marks on his ways, but I personally can't tell how truly rough it was from the picture. When I run my finger over his picture of his ways it feels pretty darn smooth to me
What I said about my ways is that mine had machining marks remaining that you can feel with a fingernail. You can't feel them running the pad of your finger on the ways, only when you drag a nail perpendicular to the surface. I also said that my machine operates very smoothly with no slop and no roughness in operation. Mine look very much like the ones posted by arizonavideo but without the scrape marks.
I actually regret not getting them measured, that is how deep the grooves were in the ways and your right I wanted to be better able to back up my claims. But as I stated in my original post they were rougher than some of the files in my box. I also know they were unfinished because one of the ways was, and this is an assumption, 'finish' ground 3/4 of the way down (y axis) so I could see that they had not finished the operation. The was definitely some 'rubbing' going on as well and yes I cleaned everything really well, oiled it and made sure all the locks weren't on. One thing to note, as soon as I sent the pictures to Grizzly they instantly offered to take it back and I'm really not sure where it went wrong on the communication front. I can also tell you this, this machine was not opened and inspected prior to being sent out. Think about the operation, and i'm not saying it doesn't happen on the more expensive machines but it wouldn't make economic sense for everything machine to be uncrated and inpected and then repackaed, the locks on the crate (the metal that folds over) had only been done once and this crate would be what is used on the container ship. I'm interested that in some ways you are putting the onus on me, whatever happened to a) a quality product (or at least something that worked correctly) b) isn't it my choice as a customer/consumer to get something changed if I am not happy? My personal feeling is that Grizzly has a strong position in the marketplace and that confidence is what is driving their reactions; this is only going to get worse as I saw online that Jesse James is now using their machine tools.
There reaction did surprise me and in fact they are the ones loosing out. I got the mill because I had a range of projects that I wanted to get moving on but I was (still am) in the market for a lathe and a couple of other pieces as well. Their reaction seems very shortsighted in my eyes. I actually had my wife talk to them because I'm not a 'phone guy' and given that she works in sales she is better at handling this stuff but after numerous phone calls and NO callbacks (they did phone me once but of course my Blackberry dropped the call) even she got exasperated, and told them so.
Thanks Hoss I will, I'm just waiting on getting my refund, they said 3 days as I paid via paypal so we shall see.I do, this pic shows the smooth surface of the z gibs that was typical of all the mating surfaces on my mill straight out of the box.
Ron you got a bad deal as I said in the email. Someone was asleep at the factory.
As I suggested give Matt a call at Precision Mathews about the pm25mv.
Hoss
I had the same problem with my g0704 (not as bad) having unfinished ways as well. On my machine the Y axis was properly ground and so was one side of the x axis though. I wouldn't have been sure that I wasn't just expecting too much from a low cost machine if it weren't for the fact that I could clearly see and feel the difference between the ways that were ground and the ways that were completely neglected.
I had a different experience with Grizzly customer service though. I didn't complain about the ways because I always wanted to lap them anyway, but I did write an email to customer support last week (complete with pictures for evidence) letting them know about a crack I have had in the headstock since I received it about 1.5 years ago. I originally mistook it for a mere crack in the paint until recently while I was trying to track down the source of the vibration problems my mill has with even slightly demanding cuts and I noticed that the crack appeared to have grown larger since I first discovered it. I took another look and it appeared that the crack was going through to the other side of the casting and was more than just paint. I told them that I knew it was out of warranty but that I didn't report it at the time because I had hoped that it was cosmetic when I first discovered and also because there was a waiting list about 6 months long for the mill back then and I didn't want to have to wait again for a replacement. I expected a "sorry, you should have said something sooner" but they actually offered to replace my entire out of warranty mill if I would pay for return shipping. True, the crack in the casting was a factory defect that crippled the mill and because of that they should really replace it at no cost, but it is out of warranty and they don't technically have to do anything for me so I appreciate that they are. The fact that they offered to send me a whole new mill instead of just replacing the broken part was especially surprising.
What they did to you Wheelie is wrong. I'm sorry that you didn't have an experience with their customer service more similar to mine. I think that your warning is fair and something buyers should be made aware of. You may have a great experience, many people do and really enjoy their machines. Some people do not though and end up with 400 lbs of problems. Know what you could potentially have to deal with if you are considering taking the plunge. Grizzly support seems about as consistent as the condition of these machines when they leave the factory. Sometimes good, sometimes very bad. Consider that as well when contemplating your purchase.
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