Budget around 3500 - what to get?

[Madda]

Hello!


I posted some time ago to the want to buy forum but I didn't get any answers so I tried now here.

So my budget is around 3500 USD and I need benchtop cnc mill or a mill and bolt on conversion because I don't have much time and experience to build myself. Travels x-y should be atleast 400x160mm. I will be cutting mainly aluminium and brass, I make RC scale models.

I have access to solidworks and hsmworks - I can operate with them quite well so I don't really need to think about software.

I thought about that: https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.co...cat=323&page=1 + https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.co...cat=253&page=1 but Pat has hard time getting information about the cnc kits from the factory...

So what do you think guys? Any suggestions are welcome.

Ps. If here is anyone who would like to sell his used or make me one, PM me.

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[hoss2006]

You can't go wrong with the Vario, they have the best reputation among BF20 class mills.
Just realize that you are going to need several hundreds if not thousand $ for tooling to go along with the mill.
You can find some examples of tooling packages of varying prices here under accessories g0704.com.
$ output will only increase the longer you go for tooling, there will always something else you find you gotta have.
It's best in my opinion to get the most mill you can upfront, the money for accessories will come in time, piece by piece.
Hoss

[Madda]

Thanks for your reply!

I thought same that I will get BF20l with cnc kit, some collets, chucks, clamping kit, end mills and then as I progress I will buy the tooling I need.

What do you think of that cnc kit I posted above? It should have controller box too but the information is changing there and it's quite weird all that there. It should be much more expensive too! Should I add something to that kit?



Madda

[LUCKY13]

That kit appears to have zero elctronics with it, no controller, no motor drivers. It seems it is only the machincal parts needed, plus the stepper motors.


Jess

[hoss2006]

Have you looked at Optimum in Germany for the mill and conversion?
Optimum Machines: Complete and add-on kit BF20
They have all the components and electronics.
Hoss

[wizard]

That I unless you can Do It Yourself with the conversion. Buying a pre built machine for that money would be tough. You might get there with a kit but most of the cheap kits expect a lot from the builder. Your lack of experience could be an issue in getting a machine up fast.

One place to look at complete machines is tooling, parts, and accessories for bench top machinists - LittleMachineShop.com. They however have nothing in your price range but can give you an idea on pricing.

Hello!


I posted some time ago to the want to buy forum but I didn't get any answers so I tried now here.

So my budget is around 3500 USD and I need benchtop cnc mill or a mill and bolt on conversion because I don't have much time and experience to build myself. Travels x-y should be atleast 400x160mm. I will be cutting mainly aluminium and brass, I make RC scale models.

Well it is good that you have researched this a bit. Someone has already stated it but make sure you don't buy to little in the way of a mill. Remember it isn't just the size of the parts you want to make that is an issue, you need room for fixturing and tooling.

I have access to solidworks and hsmworks - I can operate with them quite well so I don't really need to think about software.

I thought about [deleted] but Pat has hard time getting information about the cnc kits from the factory...

Your post indicates you are from Estonia, if so do you not have local vendors?

In any event I still think you are in a hard place if you want a pre built or easy to bolt on conversion solution. Those kits still require considerable time.

So what do you think guys? Any suggestions are welcome.

I think you need to be prepared to DIY more of this mill than you seem to indicate that you want to do. This would allow you to hit budget with the basic machine. Getting something ready to go off the shelf at your budget will be a challenge.

Ps. If here is anyone who would like to sell his used or make me one, PM me.

Sadly I don't have time for my own!

Speaking of used, do try Craig's List and local estate sales. I've missed out on some really good tools at Estate sales, you do need to get there early. Locally auctions have been really interesting too, but the risk of excessive prices is there. Lastly if there is a local model engineering show and auction, like Cabin Fever, near by go to the show and look for deals.

[WOTDesigns]

someone else just posted an x3 they might be selling in this forum. shipping is always tough unless you buy local. he may give you a deal on the cnc mill and lathe though

[hoss2006]

Madda,
I'd suggested Optimum as they were closer to Tallinn than MTW in Canada but Optimum has some dealers that are closer to you that you may want to check out.
This one is right next door in Latvia.
Sparks A, tehniskas iek?rtas, profesion?lie instrumenti,domkrati, darbgaldi, iek?rtas, atsledznieku, kokapstr?des darbagaldi ,darbagaldi un apr?kojums
This one is in Finland.
http://www.tyokalutukku.fi/
This one is in Sweden.
Automatic Production - Import och frsljning av maskiner, kompressorer, inredningar m.m.
This one is in Russia.
: , , , Optimum, Aircraft
Probably be cheaper to get a machine fairly local than one shipped from North America.
google can translate the pages for you.
Google Translate
Hoss

[Madda]

Many many thanks to all of you, you are so helpful!


Priddyshiddy - where did you saw that x3?

So I thought here and decided to do conversion myself. I can get the machine from a local distributor here and everything will be faster/cheaper. I won't change the acme to ballscrew at first point though.

So what do you think (need also recommendations on some things):

BF20L - 1450.-
Clamps SPW-10 - 75.-
HOSS plans - 28.-
4-axis contoller box - High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc - 433.-
2x NEMA 23 - High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc - 91.-
1x NEMA 34 - High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc 87.5.-
3x Motor cables - High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc 30.-
Stock for converting - 120.-
What collet/chuck set? Probably ebay will do the trick for 100.-
What endmill set? ebay again 50.-
End switches or these can be also set in mach somehow?
Couplers for motors?
I've got the computer for mach.
What would I need more to get started/maybe something is really wrong in this list? All the boring heads, vises etc will come later...

I took the cnc controller box because I'm little bit afraid of wiring all by myself.

This total is: 2314.5 euros


Madda

[hoss2006]

Those steppers aren't a good match for the g540 controller, you'll get much better performance
with those motors and this controller.
High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc
other electronic choices can be found here.
G0704 Electronics
Warco in the UK might be a good source for you too for tooling.
Milling Machine Tools - Metalworking Mill Accessories, Collets & More

skinner is selling his sx3 and 10x22, i'm betting shipping it to europe might be asking a bit much.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...sx3_10x22.html
Hoss

[Madda]

Ok thanks hoss!

So I will someday order my stuff, probably shipping will take ages though.
I will then make a thread here about my bf 20.

[hoss2006]

Looking forward to your thread, it will be nice to see another bf20 thread and a machine that's not a g0704.
Hoss

[Madda]

I'm sorry that I take up a old thread but I still have questions:

Does anybody know, if I buy Optimum VI controller box and 3 steuerkarte, then the controller box is complete and I just need to add the motors? Can the motors be anything from keiling or I need to buy original ones? It is very hard to get information from Optimum.
http://www.optimum-machines.com/prod...-mi/index.html

[hoss2006]

The motors shown in the conversion are 2.75 Nm (389 oz/in) X and Y axis and 4.4 Nm (623 oz/in) for the Z axis.
The specs for the addon kit shows 2.2 Nm 3A bipolar motors and 40 volts for the control cards.
For their system the best motor would be the 381 oz/in KL23H2100-35-4B from keling (automation technology)
though the new 3.5 Amp 570 oz/in stepper KL23H2100-35-4BM would be a decent choice though a little sluggish at top speed
since it's ideal voltage (80v) is double what this system provides.
The 381 stepper are closer at 53v.
They have an old keling part number (23H280-01EA) 2.0 Nm for the motors in their conversion plans but
you can do better these days.
Hoss

[Madda]

So you think that 570oz/in would perform fine overall? You mean by sluggish that it isn't so fast that it could be or that it isn't so precise? To me precision is far more important than trying the top speeds of the steppers. Doesn't that 40V damage 80V motors?

I would order Keiling controllers but the taxes and shipping etc would make the price so high that I could buy two mills. I can get the Optimum box + drivers without vat and with discount much cheaper(I hope that box has everything I need, there isn't much information about it). Also it is very hard to get contact with automation tech, i sent them e-mail two days ago but still nothing. Wonder if there are shops in Europe maybe?

Uu I found this site: http://stepmotor.biz/st-m-overview.htm never thought they would make steppers here!

Many thanks Hoss, your dedication is remarkable.

[hoss2006]

No, 40v won't damage 80v motors, it'll be easier on the motor actually since an 80v can handle 80v.
If you can find components local to you it would be cheaper perhaps but the motors listed
in your link are less than ideal, the nema 23 frame motor is half the torque of the keling 570.
They do note "Other models stepper motors are on request" so you should contact them
for a complete nema 23 list and pricing.
Hoss

[Madda]

Yeah I know that they are not suitable but at least they have something to offer, I will e-mail them tomorrow.

So now I will search for motors in Europe because no luck with automation technology.

[hoss2006]

Zapp Automation is a pretty popular supplier for all kinds of cnc components in the UK including steppers.
Zapp Automation Ltd - Stepper motors & Stepper Motor Drivers - Servo motors and Servo Motor Drivers - Ballscrews & linear motion products. :
They're at least in the neighborhood.
Hoss