Flood Coolant... how to wire it? - Page 2


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Thread: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

  1. #13
    Registered john-100's Avatar
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    Hi Chris ,

    I think I'd use the secondry relay as the relay has to cope with
    the high inrush of current as you switch on and the arc as you switch off the pump
    the small relay may not last very long

    I've had a look at the KB electronics manual
    they show a relay circuit ensure the motor can only be connected
    at a zero speed setting by shorting two small terminal links I1 and I2

    using a 4 pole 3 way switch like the one used on the mini lathes and mills
    you can have manual control of the motor direction and protect the speed control and motor

    more poles on the manual / cnc control switch will be needed


    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-dynamic-brake-jpg  


  2. #14
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    Putting relays between the motor and controller is an incredibly bad idea - at some point, perhaps sooner, perhaps later, you WILL blow up the controller, and probably the relays as well, by accidentally disconnecting the motor while it's running. All it takes is a momentary loss of power, or a Mach3 "oops", and there will be a bang and a lot of smoke. Use the relay to enable the controller, by switching the AC power, and leave the direction change as a manual switch, and NEVER flip it when the motor is powered.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    John,

    I found that in the back of the manual...

    WARNING! Do not disconnect and reconnect the motor armature with the AC line applied or catastrophic
    failure will result. See Section 13.2.

    13.2 Armature Switching and Dynamic Braking – If the armature is to be disconnected and reconnected with the AC power applied, wire a relay (or contactor) and a brake resistor (RB) in the armature circuit. The Inhibit Circuit must be simultaneously activated when braking. Wire a double pole double throw (DPDT) mechanically ganged switch to the Inhibit Terminals and the relay (or contactor) coil, as shown in Figure 20. The resistance and wattage of RB must be chosen according to braking requirements. When the switch is in the “Brake” position, the relay is deenergized and allows the motor voltage, via the N.C. contact, to be dissipated through RB and dynamically brake the motor. Simultaneously, the Inhibit is activated and the control output is electronically “extinguished”, which eliminates arcing.
    When the switch is in the “Run” position, the N.C. contact opens, the N. O. contact closes, the Inhibit is deactivated, and the motor begins to accelerate (according to the setting of the ACCEL Trimpot) to the Main
    Speed Potentiometer setting.

    WARNING! The Inhibit Circuit (Terminals “I1” and “I2”) is never to be used as a Safety Disconnect since it is not fail-safe. Use only the AC line for this purpose.
    Along with this detail:



    It's beginning to go beyond my knowledge of electronics and wiring at this point so i am going to try and outline everything in my schematic again so i can get a handle on it and will repost!

    Thanks!

    Chris



  4. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HimyKabibble View Post
    Putting relays between the motor and controller is an incredibly bad idea - at some point, perhaps sooner, perhaps later, you WILL blow up the controller, and probably the relays as well, by accidentally disconnecting the motor while it's running. All it takes is a momentary loss of power, or a Mach3 "oops", and there will be a bang and a lot of smoke. Use the relay to enable the controller, by switching the AC power, and leave the direction change as a manual switch, and NEVER flip it when the motor is powered.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    HimyKabibble,

    As listed above that is exactly what the manual stated but it offers the ability to use the inhibit switch to accomodate for this (I think) if I am reading the instructions correctly. perhaps you can take a look at that and let me know if my thinking is correct?

    Thanks,

    Chris



  5. #17
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    After reading and re-reading the manual, would it be safe(r) to put a relay on the AC line in and once that has been de-energized have the motor polarity switching occur? and once the switching has taken place have the AC line relay energized sending power to the speed control board and starting the motor back up? and how would that wiring look if that is a viable option?.......... going to try and wrap my head around that now.



  6. #18
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    How often do you expect the NEED to run the motor in reverse? I can count the number of times I've had to do it on the fingers of one hand. But turning the motor on and off you'll need to do many times in the course of running almost every program. So why not keep it simple, and safe, and use a relay to turn the motor on and off, and leave the reverse as a manual operation? Almost no chance of blowing anything up that way.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    The hope is/was to be able to do rigid tapping through CNC control which would require the control to be able to reverse the spindle direction. But it is beyond my determination to figure it out right now so it will simply be one direction for the time being until i get everything else up and running.....



  8. #20
    Registered john-100's Avatar
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    Hi Chris ,

    thats not easy , not being able to switch direction at any speed

    do you have any encoder for mach 3 to measure the spindle speed and direction ?

    the attached circuit is for a manual control only ,
    but you need the cnc control to be able copy it
    start the motor at zero speed , ramp up and then down down to stop before ,starting again in reverse

    John

    update , the relay needs to connect the resistor after the forward reverse switch see second diagram

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-kbm-control-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-kbm-control-corrected-version-jpg  
    Last edited by john-100; 01-20-2012 at 05:01 PM. Reason: add corrected circuit


  9. #21
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    OK, for now I decided to get back up and running with the new motor/controller and coolant flood pump to do it simply, I think at least. I have never worked with AC relays before and am a bit confused on what to do here in the attached schematic, can anyone help me out and possibly help me source the proper relays? It would be very much appreciated!

    Thanks!

    Chris

    Schematic for coolant pump and motor controller



  10. #22
    Registered john-100's Avatar
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    Hi Chris ,

    being in the UK , I'd look at RS components , Rapid on line or Farnell
    but for you , the first US suppliers I can think of is Mouser or Digikey

    what coil voltage your looking for ?

    12V or 24V DC would enable you to have most of the control switching to be done at a safe voltage

    I've had another look at the manual / cnc spindle motor switching
    it may need some changes but may give you an idea

    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-motor-control-ver-2-jpg  


  11. #23
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    I would be thrilled if I could use the boards 5v supply. I did purchase a small 12v 1000mA power supply to energize the motor control portion of the board but I'm not sure it would be enough for the relays and the motor control power requirement. How much amperage do relays pull?

    I'm using 230vac to power the kbmm-225 and coolant pump power supply. For 230 here in the states out uses 2 lines of 115v. Sure you already knew that but want sure if they'd what you were asking.

    I will take a look at that diagram and see if I can make heads our takes of it.....


    You are a tremendous help John! Much appreciated!

    Chris



  12. #24
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    Powering relay coils from the same power supply you use for powering logic circuits? Also a very bad idea. There is ample opportunity to fry chips, but it will almost certainly introduce random noise that can cause something to misbehave when the relays are turned on and off.

    Rather than rigid tapping, consider thread-milling. It's much simpler, and doesn't require anything special on the spindle. Any 3-axis machine can do it.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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Flood Coolant... how to wire it?
Flood Coolant... how to wire it?