Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

[lcvette]

OK, for now I decided to get back up and running with the new motor/controller and coolant flood pump to do it simply, I think at least. I have never worked with AC relays before and am a bit confused on what to do here in the attached schematic, can anyone help me out and possibly help me source the proper relays? It would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Chris

Schematic for coolant pump and motor controller

[john-100]

Hi Chris ,

being in the UK , I'd look at RS components , Rapid on line or Farnell
but for you , the first US suppliers I can think of is Mouser or Digikey

what coil voltage your looking for ?

12V or 24V DC would enable you to have most of the control switching to be done at a safe voltage

I've had another look at the manual / cnc spindle motor switching
it may need some changes but may give you an idea

John

[lcvette]

I would be thrilled if I could use the boards 5v supply. I did purchase a small 12v 1000mA power supply to energize the motor control portion of the board but I'm not sure it would be enough for the relays and the motor control power requirement. How much amperage do relays pull?

I'm using 230vac to power the kbmm-225 and coolant pump power supply. For 230 here in the states out uses 2 lines of 115v. Sure you already knew that but want sure if they'd what you were asking.

I will take a look at that diagram and see if I can make heads our takes of it.....


You are a tremendous help John! Much appreciated!

Chris

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Powering relay coils from the same power supply you use for powering logic circuits? Also a very bad idea. There is ample opportunity to fry chips, but it will almost certainly introduce random noise that can cause something to misbehave when the relays are turned on and off.

Rather than rigid tapping, consider thread-milling. It's much simpler, and doesn't require anything special on the spindle. Any 3-axis machine can do it.

Regards,
Ray L.

[lcvette]

Good thoughts.... Any suggestions on what to do for powering the relays?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Good thoughts.... Any suggestions on what to do for powering the relays?

Just get a separate 12V supply, or whatever is required. A $5 wall wart should do the job. E-Bay is your friend.

Regards,
Ray L.

[neilw20]

Chris, Don't try and run your coolant relay as you propose.
Us the NO VOLTAGE FREE contacts on either 'pin16' or Pin'1' on the right hand lower corner of the C11G.

Be very careful trying to control the motor speed.

It is quite worrying to see one side of your field connection going to C11 board.

Do it all manually, quite separate to the C11 board until you have a good understanding of the dangerous, mains referenced potentials on the motor drive board. THERE IS NO ISOLATION, so you have + and - 160VDC available to fry both you and the C11 PCB.

As for solid tapping, you have many hurdles to jump before that is possible. It is not trivial.

[john-100]

just to add to Neils reply

only the C11G analogue is isolated from the printer port
provided the 12V DC supply is only connected to the C11G board
X1 power connector

John

[neilw20]

Not only is 0-10v isolated, but safe creapage distances for 240vAC is 6mm, and I have a C11G board to look at. 3mm for 110v.

It will not give SAFE isolation, even though it is isolated.
I would rate the isolation at 100v absolute safe maximum. Not suitable for 240vAC type isolation.

Is the power supply rate for the proper isolation? An unearthed plug pack is often much safer than a good looking power supply.

Believe me, as I have been engineering this sort of stuff for 40 years and seen it all (well enough of it to know what is unsafe).
You can't use a C11G to give that sort of isolation. The isolation is intended only to prevent earth loops and noise for control signals.

[john-100]

Hi Neil ,

you are correct
you have the advantage of having a C11 board to look at

with only 3mm spacing the board is only safe in the US

for the UK and Australia etc
I'd want a minimum of 8 mm spacing between the live speed control circuit and the rest of the board

John

[neilw20]

Hi Neil ,

you are correct
you have the advantage of having a C11 board to look at

with only 3mm spacing the board is only safe in the US

for the UK and Australia etc
I'd want a minimum of 8 mm spacing between the live speed control circuit and the rest of the board

John

8mm is nice.
Regulations is 6mm. Standard 0.3" opto. I always put a slot under the device (or relay), as an airgap.

This will replace a C11G and meet the regulations on our new machine.

Sneak preview . Not released yet.
http://www.toolmach.com.au/page18.html

[john-100]

Hi Neil ,

the boards look good to me ,

High quality boards and with the information you need printed on the top
you don't need the book for simple tests

with all the status led's and blown fuse indicators it should be childs play fault finding on the machine

I guess a lot of hard work has gone into the design

a nice linear power supply without the leakage currents of switch mode designs

its too easy to get a shock off double insulated switch mode power supplies that pass the tests .

the mains filter currents are un balanced when one side of the mains supply is connected to earth

John

[lcvette]

found the diagram on cnc4pc's site that showed the lead connected to the F terminal, is that possibly incorrect? Maybe itshold go somewhere else?

[john-100]

Hi Chris ,

since your motor has a field winding and not a permanent magnet
I'd connect the wire to the smaller terminal I2

-F1 and I2 are both connected to the negative terminal of the bridge rectifier
but the way see it is
because of the small resistance at the connection to the -F1 terminal
a small voltage (due the field current ) would be added to the speed control signal if they are connected to the same terminal


John

[neilw20]

Hi Chris,

I hope you can keep the smoke in.

[lcvette]

ok, from the manual i found this tid bit, not sure what it means or which the C11G is but I will begin trying to identify that to make a clear determination of which method is viable and correct:

6.6 Voltage Following Connection – An isolated 0 - 9 Volt DC analog
signal input can be used to control motor speed in lieu of the
Main Speed Potentiometer. The control output voltage will linearly
follow the analog signal input. The signal input must be isolated
from the AC line. Connect the signal input positive lead (+) to
Terminal “P2” and the negative lead (-) to Terminal “P1”, as
shown in Figure 4. The source impedance of the signal input
should be 10 kΩ or less. The MAX Trimpot is not operational in
voltage following mode. Use the MIN trimpot to set an initial value
of input signal. If necessary, use auxiliary trimpots to scale and/or
limit the input voltage.

CAUTION! Do not earth ground any input terminals.
Notes: 1. If an isolated signal input is not available, or if using a
4 - 20 mA DC signal input, install the optional plug-on SI-6 Signal
Isolator (Part No. 9444). This will also allow direct connections to
process controllers and microprocessors. 2. If multiple follower
motors are to be controlled from a single lead motor or a single
Main Speed Potentiometer, install the optional KBSI-240D Signal
Isolator (Part No. 9431). 3. Terminal “F-” may be used in lieu of Terminal “P1”.

[lcvette]

Also.. new development, the motor that is on its way is a Permanent Magnet motor... sooo.. perhaps that helps?

Chris

[john-100]

Hi Chris ,

in that case you can connect either of the -f or I2 terminals
to the C11G analogue ground terminal


john

[MiniSoCalCNC]

and ... yet another thread that veers off into another direction where the title is left unresolved ... arrrgghhhh !!!

Was there ever a resolution to wiring the C11G BoB for a SSR ---> 110v outlet ?

[mikegiraud]

and ... yet another thread that veers off into another direction where the title is left unresolved ... arrrgghhhh !!!

Was there ever a resolution to wiring the C11G BoB for a SSR ---> 110v outlet ?

Old thread but I'll chime in - The C11G on-board relays are good to switch AC or DC. Mechanical relays don't care, as long as the load is under the rated current. The C11G's mechanical relays are good for up to 10A at 125VAC per the product manual. Unless you're switching a load greater than 8-10 amps, use the on-board relay and save a few bucks. You most likely have 110V in your control box anyhow feeding your AC/DC power supplies.

If you're switching a high current load greater than 8-10A, then simply use a free 5V output on the C11G into the SSR's DC control side. Most SSR's will accept a 5V control signal, so you're good to go. Be sure to set your ports and pins configuration accordingly for your desired normally open or normally closed configuration (active low or active high in Mach for example). For the output side of the SSR, you'd simply have the 120V hot wire come into the SSR as pin 1, and your load on pin 2. When your 5V DC goes high, the SSR closes and passes 120V to your load. The common wire for the 120V bypasses the SSR and goes straight to your load, as does the AC ground. Pretty straightforward.

Input or Control Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for 5VDC input)
Positive Terminal = 5V Positive from C11G Output (Pins 2-9 on C11G)
Negative Terminal = the 5V Negative or common wired to Pins 2-9 on C11G

Output Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for your current load)
Pin 1 = Source 120VAC hot wire (use caution and unplug AC source when wiring this up)
Pin 2 = your load's hot wire, or the hot wire into an AC plug if that's your goal . Pin 2 will receive 120VAC when the 5V output goes high.