Kelly's Machine Tool Warehouse - MD001

[ninefinger]

I agree to a point about the Z axis low travel limit but the machine is fine from a manual perspective - it can reach the table with the quill. I'm not sure what you're talking about with a spacer though when you extend the quill that 1.5" - are you talking at the bottom between the shoulder on the quill and the head casting? If so I really think that won't do much - the quill is already what - 80mm diameter of steel? Its not going to flex. The problem with the quill is when its loose for use as a manual milling machine or drill press operation it has slop then. Locked up its fine -even extended a little bit.

I think you're over reacting to the X-axis travel. Even at full travel its still supported by 12" of saddle and that area is where the cutting is taking place. I think most times items that are at the 39" of cutting length are light, thin pieces (my case anyways). If you're trying to machine something like engine blocks then yes you might have a problem but for light stuff the table can handle itself just fine - or even a rotary table at one end and the vise in the middle using last third for table clamping setups.

BTW I think even the Y and Z axis over run the dove tails - the Z at the top of its travel and the Y at the front.

Cutting out the cross member is the way Industrial Hobbies solves the Z issue - technically it increases the available travel - I like Arizona's solution better but I'd have to remake my ball nut mount.

Mike

[cyclestart]

BTW I think even the Y and Z axis over run the dove tails - the Z at the top of its travel and the Y at the front.

The Y full forward overhangs the base by 1.5" leaving 8" of engagement. Or at least it would be 8" if the y gib wasn't protruding 3/8", been meaning to check if the protruding gib is normal or an adjustment is out of whack.

This thing could still shred my X2

[skray775]

Not really upset about the work envelope but I think the spec sheets should reflect the table travel of 25" without
over driving. Could be helpful to someone on the fence when choosing a mill.

I decided to install a 2.5" spacer on the x an y mounts so I can still have the 30" of travel. Not sure what to
do about the Z ball screw mount but I like the idea of an L bracket.

Here are my drawings for the mounts so far.

[skray775]

Arizonavideo help me out here,

Take a look at this picture. How did you get an L shaped bracket to fit that space? The back side of my column slide
is on the same plane as the front of the cross brace. No room at all for an L shape mount.

Can you post a picture of your setup?

You could do what I did for the Z and make a L shaped Z ball screw mount and add a second bolt about 1" higher up.

This lets the slide go lower by the amount of the offset in the L shaped ball mount and you get extra strength from having two bolts.

I just didn't like the single bolt idea for the stock mount.

So now I can run my Z slide off the dove tails by abut a inch.

IH cuts out the cross support which will over travel to the table if you wish.

[skray775]

Nice work!!!! Very impressive!!!

Do you have a link to a build thread ?

Wow, you sure do get busy with multiple projects.

Inspired by your mill modifications and various projects I set out to make a CNC mill from scratch.

I cast pieces in steel when I can, machine everything else, I use GSK-980MD panels (because I can get them for $1400.00 shipped), 1KW 90mm AC servo motors (I can get 3 sets of motors and drivers for $1900.00 shipped).

This is a scratch build and this is what I have 3 days into the project including casting of parts.

A solid milled table (420mm x 220mm with 420mm x 220mm travel), THK 20MM linear rails (I have a solid over-seas source for any THK linear rails at a reasonable price), RM1605 ballscrews for X/Y, RM2005 for Z, custom ballscrew coupler with integrated end nut and locking set-screw, BK/BF bearing blocks, cast steel spindle head, cast steel base and cast steel column.

The spindle is a 220V, 4HP, ER20, 350RPM-9,000RPM spindle made to my specifications (I have an in with the manufacturer).

A small home-made powder-coating oven, four quartz elements from two toaster ovens and one of the controls, it makes things look pretty and the gun is nothing more than a cheapy ($74.99) from harbor freight.

Cutting fluid seems to make things rust almost immediately so anything that isn't painted needs an acid bath and quick dip in copper sulfide to keep it looking good and this will be done before the final assembly to the table and any other non-painted part that requires it.

Your comments, suggestions and opinions are welcomed and encouraged.

-- Dale

[arizonavideo]

I had to look to see what I did, It has been about 2 years.

The picture is from the bottom of the column looking up with the head raised.

I can see the stock mounting hole and the ball mount is past that point so I did not use the stock hole at all and I must had drilled two new holes in the slide.

I made a L shape ball nut mount but it was not necessary, I think I did it so the mount would clear some flashing near the top of the Z.

I do remember that the mounting pad for the ball nut was off by .010" so I milled it flat which took a bit of setup as the only reference surface was the top of the dovetails which faced the up so I used 4 adjustable mounts to level the slide for milling.

[LUCKY13]

As I continue to work on the drawing I have found 2 things that are a bit annoying and may sway people's decision to go with these mills based on the advertised 30" x 12" work envelope.

First lets talk about the X axis at 30". The table it 39.5" wide, the cross slide for the Y axis is 14.5" wide, If you subtract the cross slide from the table you get a work envelope of 25" not 30". You have to over drive the table 2.5" past each end if the cross slide in order to get the 30" advertised travel. That is kinda BS with a table this long and heavy. The same holds true for the Y axis to a lesser degree.

Now on to the Z axis. The Z is advertised as 22" tall but with the head all the way down the spindle is about 3.75" above the table. The column has a cross member cast in place (see picture) that could be removed.

The problem with removing the cross brace is that the dovetails on the column do not go down any further so even if you get the head to come down lower by removing the brace it will be hanging off the lower end of the dove tails.

So a little math, top of table to spindle = 3.75" minus my shortest TTS tool holder. My shortest TTS holder and mill combo is about 2.5".
3.75 - 2.5 = 1.25" That would mean all work would have to be raised a minimum of 1.25" off the face of the table.

For the Z axis I could :
1) Live with it and make some 1.5" thick tool plates for the table.
2) Extend the quill 1.5" installing a spacer between the head and quill then lock the quill it in place - I would loose space up top for the pulleys.
3) Cut out the cross member and let the head hang below the dove tails - eww

Figuring the table travel like this, the Enco RF-45 copy for example on the X the saddle is 15" wide, the table is 32" wide. Leaving only 17" for table travel. So your machine has 8" more travel with full contact of the ways/gibs than a RF-45.


My Z axis is the same way, allthough It will come down far enough to go off the dovetails without taking any extra support out ( because it doesnt have extra support).


So in the end your machine is much bigger than the other RF-45's, and probably no diff than a IH itself. My Enco RF-45 claims 20" travel on the X so it does have to go past the end of the dovetails to have this much travel. From what I have seen as long as its not to far it doesnt cause a problem.


On the Z axis mine would not reach the table with a end mill either unless I take it below the dovetails on it.

SO again no matter how you figure this travel thing, the fact is yours ( THe IH clone ) is much bigger than mine ( RF-45 clone). ANd both have the same travel as the machines they copy. If we, or the maker of these machines didnt push the travel limits we just simply wouldnt have any travel. The only other anwser is hugh industrial machines. And even some of them may do the same thing. And you have the most for a bentop machine.



Jess

[LUCKY13]

Your table should work out pretty nice, by the time you clean it up and paint it will look like it was made for the mill.


I havnt got to make any ballnut mounts yet, but I do want to make the Z axis as strong as I can. I have thought about using tool steel for it. This would cost a lot, but it would not have as much give to it as one made from aluminum. IDK how you could have a L shaped ballnut holder and the head still swivel so it could be trammed. Maybe its the screw/bearing end piece holder thats L shaped.

These Z axis have a lot of weight on them. I feel its worth making them as strong as possible no matter what it takes. Both the nut mount & the bearing mounts need all they can get for strenth.


Jess

[skray775]

I decided to flip the X axis mount and motor back to the right side of the table.

While it would work the way I drew it things got real close together at the extreme throws.

I also drew up this pan to fit my stand. I see a lot of pans draining to the center with I assume the drain under the machine? I like this configuration better. I can shim the table 1.5" and slant the pan away from the table with a drain on each end. The enclosure is 7 feet wide by 4 feet tall.

[skray775]

I finally placed orders for some of the materials! Timing pulleys, belts, bearings, and raw materials for the mounts and some 4" round to cut some pulleys.

I forgot to post the picture of the Fabco air cylinder I purchased so here it is.

[asuratman]

Hello kregan,
That air cylinder is looks so long, for PDB do you need long stroke?

[asuratman]

Hello kregan,
That air cylinder is looks so long, for PDB do you need long stroke?

[Maglin]

I believe he said it was a 4x1x4x4 or something like that. It has four sections and a one inch stroke. I forgot some of the other stuff atm. That thing is long. A 3 stack would have done you. I bet you could get away with using just 50 PSI with no problem.

[skray775]

It has a 2 inch stroke, a bit longer then needed but it was $100 and had the mounting flange I preferred.

Hello kregan,
That air cylinder is looks so long, for PDB do you need long stroke?

[skray775]

Thank you for the picture,
I also found some of your older post with pictures... that helps a lot.

I had to look to see what I did, It has been about 2 years.

The picture is from the bottom of the column looking up with the head raised.

I can see the stock mounting hole and the ball mount is past that point so I did not use the stock hole at all and I must had drilled two new holes in the slide.

I made a L shape ball nut mount but it was not necessary, I think I did it so the mount would clear some flashing near the top of the Z.

I do remember that the mounting pad for the ball nut was off by .010" so I milled it flat which took a bit of setup as the only reference surface was the top of the dovetails which faced the up so I used 4 adjustable mounts to level the slide for milling.

[skray775]

Finally accomplished something on the mill!

The oil holes are drilled and tapped for the one shot oilier fittings and the oil distribution slots are cut.

Parts are also arriving, pulley's, belts, bearings are here. Ball screws, nuts, aluminum stock and the DMM tech servo's and drives are ordered.

[gd.marsh]

Alright .. you're off and running!

Hey, I've got the same oil pump & I really like the way it works. Once the oil lines are full you can push down on the handle & it will slowly push oil as the metering valves allow it to flow. I give mine a couple pumps during warm-up & maybe another pump every hour or so while the machine is running & sometimes that even seems like too much. When the coolant is flowing heavy it does have a tendency to wash some of the oil away but I still have no way covers either so should get better once I do.

With your round column producing nice CNC parts like it does, you're conversion ought to turn out top notch. I will eventually get around to re-doing some parts I made manually now that I have CNC capability.

[Bubba]

I also have that oiler, and found out the hard way that you need to pull the reservoir off and clean the screen in the bottom of the pickup. Don't know why it got all gunked up, but it did so when you pump the handle and it immediately comes back up; that is the symptom that you need to clean the screen. I have found no sources of replacement ones to fit it. It was relatively easy to do with some brake cleaner scrub brush and later put it in an ultrasonic cleaner!

[skray775]

Today I work on the Z axis.

I elected not to cut out the cross brace on the column of the mill but instead fabricate a mount from 1/2" plate and 3/8" angle iron. On the head piece I milled out a slot for the plate and will bolt it to the head with three 3/8-24 bolts. I did not use the existing center bolt because the factory counter sink for the socket cap screw is so deep that there is only about 3/8" of cast iron left after milling out the back side of the head. Instead I used the 2 existing dowel holes that I drilled out to 3/8" for two more 3/8-24 bolts.

That last picture is really blurry but I will countersink the 3 bolt heads on that side of the head.

I will wait until I mount the ball screws before drilling the ball nut mount.

[pete from TN]

Hey man that is a nice workaround for not having to cut out the piece at the bottom of the column. It is much like what Arizonavideo did I think and should work fine altho you may lose some Z axis when it gets to the top. Honestly even though it is made of steel I would seriously consider getting those two pieces of steel Tig welded Together and I would even probably try to gusset it against the base piece to strengthen it. I know it sounds crazy but I have personally broken the factory cast iron mount in use and it cracked completely in half from the weight and force of the millhead and it is the same millhead on my RF45 as on your IH machine. I had to remake the whole Z axis mount. Yeah if I were you I would seriously consider gusseting that thing as you would be amazed at the forces acting upon it. It might even be a source of flex as it is in those pictures. Just a thought. I am not the only one who has had Z issues either it is a source of difficulty on these machines and WHATEVER you can do now to make it solid as a rock I would do it. Good luck with whatever you come up with man and Merry Christmas. Peace

Pete