To Tormach or Not ??? - Page 3


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 72

Thread: To Tormach or Not ???

  1. #41
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    266
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    You are taking a HUGE risk buying a used vmc. The company wants to get rid of it and sorry but not everyone is honest, so it may look like it runs fine there but when you get home and into it you could have a multi thousand dollar repair job just waiting for you.

    Buying a machine that isn't running and supposedly just has a bad controller is even riskier. Sink multiple thousands of dollars and many many hours getting the electronics up and running and for all you know there may be a mechanical issue just waiting to be seen that is gonna empty your pockets even more very quickly. By that time you will have so much put into it you have to either continue throwing money at it, take a big loss by selling it off as is or pull a dishonest move to unload it to somehow at a price closer to what you have in it.

    But sure there are nice running machines out there that you can get a good deal on that will work perfectly fine. Thing is though most people in this subforum are hobbyists and have only messed with their little Chinese machine and have never even seen a production machine in person and would be clueless as what all to look for.

    It may not be the biggest machine and yea some of their add ons are overpriced but at least going with the tormach it will be new and include some warranty and support.



  2. #42
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    266
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just watch some videos of vmcs in action on YouTube. They are far superior to a tormach. Those suckers are big, rigid and very powerful, they will tear through metal like nothing and probably be done with a part while a tormach is making its first set of shallow cuts lol.



  3. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1026
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Pete, what is your experience with "real VMCs?" I'm just curious. Sure, a big Matsuura will carve through a cubic inch of tool steel per second and hold .0001 all day long, but there are plenty of run-hard-and-put-away-wet old Fadals out there that are doing well to hold .001. For 10k in a home-size machine, you're probably going to get closer to #2.

    I think the idea that a Tormach can't be used for any kid of production has been disproved by owners. With an ATC, I see no reason why it couldn't make dozens or even a hundred small R/C parts. And that's enough to figure out if you should pay the guy with the Matsuura to make you a couple thousand, or get somebody to make dies and stamp them out for a nickel apiece.

    And buying a new machine with good manufacturer warranty support and inexpensive parts is like buying insurance. For a single person shop whose main goal is to design and sell parts, that insurance seems like a good idea.



  4. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1026
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy0203 View Post
    Just watch some videos of vmcs in action on YouTube. They are far superior to a tormach. Those suckers are big, rigid and very powerful, they will tear through metal like nothing and probably be done with a part while a tormach is making its first set of shallow cuts lol.
    For someone who mainly designs and prototypes parts, the mill will sit there and do nothing 90% of the time while they are drawing, measuring, etc. A Tormach can sit there and do nothing just as fast as the best VMC



  5. #45
    Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA and proud of it
    Posts
    1863
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Pete, I have to strongly disagree with some of your statements against Tormach machines.

    I owned both a FADAL and a HAAS machining center. Sure the Tormach is not as powerful as either if those machines, but from what I have learned, the Tormach PCNC1100 will do EVERYTHING either of the aformentioned machines will do. It just takes a little longer.

    I took delivery of a new Tormach PCNC1100 in July of this year, and I couldn't be happier.

    I bought the Series II machine with the delux stand, power drawbar, foot pedal, 4 each 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, and 1/2 inch set screw tool holders, 6 ER 20, 6 ER 16 tool holders, the computer (controller), mouse, monitor, and a few more options I can't remember, and I spent a total of about $14,550.00 delivered. I ordered it on Wednesday and it was here the next day.

    If you buy what you call a commercial machine to put in your garage, and you get it for $20,000.00, that's just the beginning. Now you need to buy a rotary phase converter for $3,500.00, then you need to buy tool holders at $50.00 to $100.00 each.

    When I had my shop, I may have had only 2 machines, but I had 75 CAT 40tool holders. At an average of about $70.00 per holder, that's another $4,900.00.

    Now you're in to your commercial machine $28,400.00. For that price, I can have 2 Tormach PCNC1100's.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, you need a air compressor that will maintain 90 PSI because the drawbars in the commercial machines run on compressed air. There goes another $750.00 to $$1,800.00. Or you could do it the way I did it and put in a screw compressor for $3,500.00. My compressor was a lot of money, but I can stand next to it and talk on the phone.

    Now your commercial machine is op to $30,200.00.

    I'm supposed to be retired, so high speed is not omportant to me any more.

    As I said above, my Tormach will do anything a commercial machine will do, it just takes a little longer. And like I said, I'm supposed tombe retired, so what do I have besides time.

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by pete from TN View Post
    I am kinda unsure about what to say here. Kregan has already built a nice little mill that has what I would consider MOST of the capability of the Tormach machine. Yeah I know it is a round column and not as convenient to use in certain ways but it will do most of what a Tormach can already. At least I do not think that spending damn near $10k on a new Tormach machine is gonna drastically change his capabilities.

    Having said that however I must agree with the other posters that if you are interested in a turn key benchtop machine and are NOT concerned about the cost of the machine then the Tormach is a good choice. I say this NOT because I think it is a very good machine actually, more because of the fact that the people who make it have very good feedback from their customers, they have parts availability, and the most interesting thing is that they are doing ONGOING Research and development on interesting items for that particular machine. They have toolchangers, fourth axes, power drawbars, all sorts of interesting tooling which personally is why I chose to go with the TTS system for my CNC mill. They also seem to not want to change the basic machine drastically which makes the older machines capable of being upgraded to their newest items. This all makes the Tormach machine much more desirable to purchase over their OTHER Chinese CNC competition despite the better travels and larger weight of some of them.

    Now having said all of that I must go back to my own personal argument about the Tormach. The problem for me with the Tormach machine is that once you are willing to drop that much coin on a Tormach machine IE ready to run with tooling and the deluxe stand, and the typical upgrades not even including the toolchanger you are well into the $10k range. For that kind of money there are MANY used commercial machine tools out there that will literally run circles around the Tormach, be equipped with a toolchanger, full enclosures, cat tooling, and TONS more rigidity, accuracy, and power than the Tormach ever could hope to provide. For me that is just too close to a real machining center to make it a viable option. There is something to be said about the overall size of the Tormach and it's ability to fit into a smaller space and run off single phase power. Obviously there are a whole bunch of people who surely have considered this and still wound up buying a Tormach machine. There area a lot of examples of interesting products and cool parts being machined on Tormach machines so they are at least capable of that. Additionally a Tormach machine with a toolchanger and the deluxe stand is pretty close to a machining center at least in operation. However for me the money spent can put you into a decent used VMC and provide much more tool rigidity, power, accuracy, speed, and capability overall and if you are willing to spend a bit more you would be amazed at what you can buy in a Commercial VMC for your shop assuming you have the space and power required. For me it would be a no brainer. A Brand new well regarded CHINESE cnc benchtop mill or a USED Commercial machine built to run day in and day out in a production environment. It also comes down to what you intend to do with the machine, If you wish to just do prototype work and pretty limited production then a Tormach may be a better choice. If you intend to make any sort of decent parts runs on your machine then a VMC is by far the way to go.

    Just some random thoughts about this and this is coming from someone who actually has quite some respect for the Tormach company, their tooling system, and their customer service. Peace

    Pete




  6. #46
    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2580
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Well....

    I guess my arguments are falling on deaf ears here. Most of the people who frequent this forum are hobbyists and have no intentions of going into any sort of production. That is just fine. The Tormach at it's price point is good for many of them as it will do what they need. The largest machine I have ever run for any length of time was a large Tree mill CNC controlled. It had no toolchanger. The shop I worked in had a bunch of different VMC's of many different sizes and capacities. It was quite literally night and day watching those machines run. The tree mill I machined parts on was kind of a big bed mill with cat tooling. It was capable of many times the power speed and accuracy of a Tormach or my current machine for that matter. It is NOWHERE near as efficient as even the slowest VMC they had in the shop. We used it to hold large fixtures for racing transmissions to modify their castings to fit in different vehicles. My close friends who just recently were forced to close their shop down due to this horrible economy had a shopfull of machines the size of a small wal mart and I haunted that place constantly learning from them and working with them on some projects of my own. They machined anything people brought in and it was very interesting to learn different ways of fixturing and approaching machining problems from them. They were very kind to me and for a while there I felt like part of the team as I was able to give ideas and input as to how best to approach parts projects. I am gonna miss going over there a lot.

    If you had Fadal machines and other VMC's and now you are retired and running your Tormach machine then you know the difference between them. The fact that you are happy with your Tormach speaks volumes about how good they are. I do not believe I ever said otherwise. You did not say however that you would try to go into production with it over those VMC's you had. Why is that? It is because it is just not gonna happen that is why... I am just getting started in CNC and have been involved in machining for nearly twenty years now. I have made custom parts, small production runs of small parts both manually and now under CNC and worked in a professional machine shop. Those guys look at these mills, however nice they look as A TOY... it is just that simple. It is a Chinese built bed mill and will never be anything more no matter what options you buy. If all you wish to do is make a couple hundred of something small and prototype things that do not need to be terribly precise and are not in any real hurry then it is great for that. If you have any aspirations of making parts for sale in any real quantity and care about speed, performance, accuracy, etc. then taking a risk on a used VMC is a better choice. I never said the parts were cheap, I never said they were not large and heavy, and I never said they are not more complex and can be expensive to repair. This is obvious, about as obvious as how much more performance you will get running these machines over a Tormach.

    This is not JUST about rapid speed either. If you really look at toolpaths and feeds and speeds, running a machine with 1hp against one with 7-10 or more the rigidity and power is ABSOLUTELY gonna make a huge difference nevermind the VMC will usually have more spindle speed as well. Don't believe me, then visit a real machine shop and watch their weakest, smallest machine cutting some time. It is quite literally night and day. If you choose to believe that your 900 lb 1.5hp chinese bedmill is even in the same ballpark then you are only fooling yourself.

    I posted this here because not only am I looking at getting a used VMC and have considered a Tormach before but because I think a lot of people do not look at this as a viable alternative. I have spoken to a TON of people who have small machine shops that work from everything from a home based shop to a small commercial building making parts and MAKING A LIVING with their machines. MOST of them started out with just what I am talking about, a used VMC. Some of them have had excellent luck, some not so much, but basically all of them said they would do it again given the chance. The reality is there are different kinds of machinists. There are those that make a niche market part that only required a small number made to make a decent cash return, and there are the guys that make many hundreds or thousands of parts for less money but make it up in volume. If you have a GOOD paying niche part or parts that you can make in small quantity to make money with then a Tormach properly equipped may be able to handle what you need. If you make a bunch of parts but somewhere in the middle here then a VMC is the way to go. I will not even go into WHETHER or not one should make their parts or farm them out to other shops because that is not what we are talking about here. We are looking at buying a machine to MAKE parts. There are a few companies that use Tormach machines to make their products. There are not A BUNCH of them but there are some. Most are making these small niche market parts for a reasonably high price to justify the slower production or the market is just very small. This is where I personally have been operating my machine. I make some niche market parts for specialty guys. I AM NOT making a killing and honestly want to move into a larger more production oriented machine WITH a toolchanger to be able to make these and other parts faster. The Tormach machine with it's newly released Toolchanger is a viable option for niche market guys like me and others. The problem comes from buying a fully equipped Tormach with Toolchanger puts you well into a DECENT used VMC category. Will it be perfect, nothing is including the Tormach, will it need attention possibly, SURE. Will it run circles around ANY Chinese bedmill, you bet your sweet ass it will.....

    I am no telling anyone here anything new, it is simple fact. Look around you and elsewhere other then the benchtop forum or the Tormach forum or even the Mikini or Smithy or whatever forums. These machines are great for small parts made relatively slowly and are excellent for LEARNING to run a CNC mill due to their size and power limitations. They can even be used to make a few bucks if you are careful about what you intend to make. That is why I chose to build my RF45CNC and use it for these purposes. There comes a time tho when slow rapids, minimal horsepower and spindle speed, and a noodle for machine rigidity reaches it's limits and you start to look around at what else is out there. Peace

    Pete



  7. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1026
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Pete, I think we all are "furiously agreeing" here

    Quote Originally Posted by pete from TN View Post
    If all you wish to do is make a couple hundred of something small and prototype things that do not need to be terribly precise and are not in any real hurry then it is great for that. (SNIP) If you choose to believe that your 900 lb 1.5hp chinese bedmill is even in the same ballpark then you are only fooling yourself.
    Well, if the ballpark is, "make ten pieces of this 6"x3" part in 6061," then I'd say yes, they're in the same ballpark. The VMC might make each in under a minute while the Tormach might take ten minutes.

    If we're talking larger parts with more material removal needed in 316L or something, then the gap will get bigger. My guess is that 99% of the members here will never make more than a hundred pieces of anything in their own shop, and most of us rarely work in anything harder to machine than 1045 or 303.

    Quote Originally Posted by pete from TN View Post
    I posted this here because not only am I looking at getting a used VMC and have considered a Tormach before but because I think a lot of people do not look at this as a viable alternative.
    Totally fair, and I don't think anyone disagrees. If your goal is to run batches of parts, then a Tormach is the wrong machine. Heck, if you read Tormach's marketing materials, they pretty much say this too.

    If your goal is to run a lot of parts fast at minimum cost, then no question, look for a used VMC or control-replacement project. It's not the easiest way to make a big pile of chips, but certainly the cheapest, and for some, the most fun.



  8. #48
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    385
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Finding a early 90's VMC with old outdated and broken control is definitely a good way to get a good machine on a hobbiest budget. Most controllers can literally be replaced with a computer running EMC2. Some of the old drip feed controllers require a little electrical knowledge to yank them out and do the refit.

    It's not just the difference in rapid's speeds. It's also in cutting speeds. Your 2-3HP mill can only go so fast with a certain cutter. A 10-15 HP VMC can definitely go much much faster. Their is a lot more to it. I would definitely like a VMC but not in my garage. It would have to be in a shop with 3 phase power. I'm not to sure your garage floor would be up to handling the weight of a VMC. A smaller VMC like a Haas would fit into a garage shop fairly nicely, they seem to be a little lighter than some of the other VMC's. Running power to it is still of a concern. If it's a 10HP version then you would want at least a 13HP RPC to run it. Much past 3HP VFD's are just to inefficient IMO. All of these are factors for me. One positive of the Tormach is it's single phase.

    Personally I can see both sides of the stick here. A new Tormach has a warranty and is just a set up and go affair. Going with an older VMC that requires a controller refit requires 3PH power and the knowledge to do the refit and setting up of the controller. Parts for the Tormach are much cheaper than any VMC by a very large margin.

    So I say decide your budget and then what you are willing to do. If you go VMC you might also want to put 20-30% of any money made with it into a maintenance account until you have around $6k to take care of any repairs. This is assuming you are using it for production work that is paying. I know none of this first hand just by talking with people in the business.

    Jeremiah
    PM45 CNC Build in Progress


  9. #49
    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2580
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Well actually....

    If one DID want to retrofit an older VMC in lieu of buying a working machine then the 3 phase necessity is also not mandatory anymore. I thought JH choppers machine runs on single phase. There are also a couple VMC's that came running on three phase. Several of the Milltronics machines run on single phase and I have spoken to people who own them and they have verified this. Besides three phase is NO deal breaker. There are lots of three phase VMC's running in garage shops on rotary phase converters. I have a friend locally to me that has not only a small VMC but several Mitsubishi Wire EDM machines running on a Rotary unit. They also do not cost $3500 either and if you are crafty you can actually build one yourself from a scrap 3 phase motor. There are also many different sizes and types of small VMC's out there some are lightweight and some are pretty damn heavy. Many of the linear guideway machines are quite light as VMC's go. Again one just needs to decide what his needs are and what he wants to do with the machine and buy appropriately. To me even if you start thinking only that you will build very small quantity parts runs that does not mean that is all you will ever do. I like to build or buy for what I MIGHT do in the future. Nice to have some extra bases covered when you can.

    At some point I am planning to purchase a machine like this for my shop. When I do I will post my progress on it and of course post pictures. I would prefer to not have to retrofit one but that is not out of the question. IT really comes down to the iron I find for the price and what it needs. Peace

    Pete



  10. #50
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    525
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hans,
    I would say 35% B and 65% C. but no limited to heli parts.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hans_G View Post
    I know this place has the DIY mentality, so everyone is replying with a DIY mindset.

    You are making RC helicopter parts.

    With whatever machine you end up with, do you see yourself
    a) selling 1,000 more copies, and then 1,000 more
    b) making and selling 100 more copies, and then designing a bigger, badder version which you will make 4 prototypes of before settling on V2, and then sell another 100 copies of V2 (and then repeat for V3)
    c) selling 14 copies, then making a better version and selling 8 copies of that, and then making a better version and making 6 copies of that, and then making a better version yet and selling the design to <insert RC Heli Brand here> for $????

    if you answered...
    a) consider finding a contract manufacturer.
    b) Tormach
    c) gets harder to justify the investment when you clearly have the skills to make a capable CNC mill for 1/2 the price.




  11. #51
    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2580
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default That's kinda what I figured....

    If that is actually the case then personally I would NOT buy a Tormach and continue using your current machine despite it's fussiness and save the $10k for something nice like a boat or motorcycle.... Good luck with whatever you choose....peace

    Pete



  12. #52
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    525
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    That would pretty much describe me!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy0203 View Post
    Thing is though most people in this subforum are hobbyists and have only messed with their little Chinese machine and have never even seen a production machine in person and would be clueless as what all to look for.




  13. #53
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    525
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Sorry my mistake, $1194

    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Power draw bar = 2200?

    Phil




  14. #54
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    525
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    If Tormach would only take trades. LOL
    Ford : Mustang | eBay



  15. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7063
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kregan View Post
    Hans,
    I would say 35% B and 65% C. but no limited to heli parts.
    I suspect your needs would be similar to mine - speed is NOT all that critical, and you don't NEED parts made to 0.0001" tolerance. There is a rarely understood concept of "good enough" that sometimes gets lost to bragging rights. I just finished making 25 copies of a single part, and could just as easily make 100 or 200. The fact that a VMC might have made them in half the time, or even 1/10th the time is really not relevent, as my machine makes them fast enough, and my involvement in the process is really minimal, as the machine is cranking away for hours at a time by itself. While it's working, I'm off doing other things that also NEED to be done. If I had a VMC, the parts would no doubt get done faster, and the machine would then be sitting there for days at a time while I did all the OTHER work that has to get done to make a shipping product.

    I can't believe we're seriously discussing running a 10-15 horsepower machine in a household garage.... Better set aside several thousand $ to get a new feed from the utility, and for re-wiring your house to be able to handle that.

    And on the subject of re-fitting a machine with blown controls - commercial machines, especially older ones, often use completely different drive systems. Analog servos are quite common. How many people here even know what a resolver is? Odd, non-standard, or purpose-built drive motors are quite common - no NEMA standard form factors here! It's not a matter of just ripping out the old electronics, and putting in a set of Geckos. Drives that can handle the motors on old machines can cost a bloody fortune, as they often operate on much higher voltage than modern drives, and the only other option could be replacing the drive motors, which can be quite a MAJOR project. Even mechanical disassembly can require use of a crane, as some of the individual parts on things are MASSIVE and HEAVY. I was offered an old 5000#, 10HP Matsuura VMC with ATC for free by a good friend. Mechanically fine, but needed some TLC on the electronics side. When I looked at what it would cost to move it, update it, provide power to it, and everything else that would be required to turn it into a reliable, working machine, it simply was not worth it, not in $, and not in my time. That machine sits in the same place to this day.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



  16. #56
    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2580
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Ray...

    I am confused, if your machine works so well and you have no need for a faster or more accurate machine that would just sit as you say, then why the hell would you be interested in buying a Tormach machine that quite honestly is probably not as capable as the knee mill you already have? If you are indeed making the garbage pails full of chips that you talk about and you are making products for sale and you do not need any more speed or accuracy then I do not understand why you would need another machine let alone a tormach?

    I will not go into what is entailed in a used VMC retrofit because there are far too many of them already done and working to go into what can and cannot be done. Suffice it to say that it is a definitely viable option for older machines and there is a quite lucrative cottage industry of people who do exactly that. Whether or not you think it is a good idea or anyone else for that matter is irrelevant.

    I think I have stated my point here, there are a lot of folks for whom a used VMC is just not practical. That is completely understandable... Again most here are hobbyists that feel like my RF45 mill is way too heavy and takes up too much room. There are more than a few that feel a sherline is more than adequate. That is fine for them too. I was simply trying to speak to those that are looking to the Tormach for a BUSINESS use and wanted to point out the other options out there. They are not right for everyone, they are not always cheap altho in certain situations they can be depending on your point of view. There is more than one way to arrive at a profitable and useful machine. By the same token a Chinese benchtop mill is not right for everyone either. I never said nor implied that the Tormach machine is not a good machine. It has it's place. In fact I think I tried to point out what I feel it is good for and there are several folks here that have them and are apparently quite satisfied with them. I think they are a fine company and their engineers have done a lot to make the machine what it is and provide interesting options for their use. I have NOTHING against Tormach or their machine. NOTHING... I just feel that it is priced in a position, especially fully equipped with a toolchanger and everything else that puts it in a place where other options start to really look good. That is it, nothing more, nothing less. Peace

    Pete



  17. #57
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    386
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HimyKabibble View Post

    I can't believe we're seriously discussing running a 10-15 horsepower machine in a household garage.... Better set aside several thousand $ to get a new feed from the utility, and for re-wiring your house to be able to handle that.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    My 10 HP Cincinatti Arrow 500 (which incidentally cost me $5300 in good running condition) runs off a 60A 230 single phase breaker and a 10 HP PhasePerfect.It would also run off a 20HP RPC, which can be had for $1200 or less, off the same 60A breaker. With some work it could have fit in a household garage but I have it in a detached workshop.

    That said, I could do 95% of the work I've done on my 20" x 20" x 20" VMC on a PCNC.

    Joe



  18. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7063
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Pete,

    "I am confused, if your machine works so well and you have no need for a faster or more accurate machine that would just sit as you say, then why the hell would you be interested in buying a Tormach machine that quite honestly is probably not as capable as the knee mill you already have?" - So I can run prototypes and do development work on one machine, while the other one is cranking away on "production". And for doing secondary ops, rather than having to serialize them. And to avoid having to constantly swap fixtures and setups in and out. And for backup, so I'm not dead in the water if my one machine breaks down. There are plenty of valid reasons for having multiple machines that have nothing to do with speed or power.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



  19. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    7063
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scudzuki View Post
    My 10 HP Cincinatti Arrow 500 (which incidentally cost me $5300 in good running condition) runs off a 60A 230 single phase breaker and a 10 HP PhasePerfect.It would also run off a 20HP RPC, which can be had for $1200 or less, off the same 60A breaker. With some work it could have fit in a household garage but I have it in a detached workshop.

    That said, I could do 95% of the work I've done on my 20" x 20" x 20" VMC on a PCNC.

    Joe
    You're lucky - I think I've owned one house where providing a 60A circuit would have been either cheap or easy, because the service panel was in the garage. That's very often not the case. Many older houses only have 60A service, so would require a new line all the way out to the utility pole. My current house has the service panel at one end of the house, outdoors. The breaker panel is in the laundry room, in the center of the house. The attached garage is 40 feet away from the breaker panel, almost 75 feet from the service panel, with no easy way to run a new line to either panel (slab construction, vaulted ceilings - no attics, no crawl spaces). My shop is 150 feet away from the house, almost 200 feet from the breaker panel, and 225 feet from the service panel. Running 60A service to either the garage or the shop would cost a bloody fortune - long, deep trenches, crossing the driveways, hundreds of feet of heavy, expensive cable and conduit (gophers!), etc.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



  20. #60
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    385
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Another thing to maybe look at is the IHCNC if you are wanting to have a turnkey. But no ATC or Autodrawbar might be what kepts you from purchasing one if those are the main features you are looking at attaining. Of course you can always build those.

    When I was talking about a controller refit I was talking about the actual controller and not the servo drives. I like the Helicopter frame are very nice looking. Been thinking of getting into RC heli. Been playing with Real Flight lately and I hope to be able to not crash land every flight soon.

    Jeremiah
    PM45 CNC Build in Progress


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

To Tormach or Not ???

To Tormach or Not ???