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Thread: HM46 CNC convserion

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    Default HM46 CNC convserion

    Hello,

    I have decided to get a HM46 and to eventually convert it to CNC
    I chose the HM46 because it is the largest bench mill I can find
    https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=M123
    Please note that I am from Australia, this machine probably exists under other names in other countries. It is larger the the super X3
    I have converted my taig mill to CNC so this shouldn't be super hard except for the Z axis as its a rack and pinion setup

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    Thumbs up Welcome to the "big leagues"

    Hi Chris,

    Nice choice of machine. Looking at it I think most will know it as an RF-45 or ZX-45. About as big as they get for the desktop variety.

    I don't think the rack and pinion for the Z will matter much as for a machine this size you really want to go to ball screws. In doing so you will end up removing the rack and pinion completely.

    BTW - what are you planning to use - steppers or servos? Always curious to see what others end up doing for their conversions.

    Congrats again.

    Mike



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    Default

    I've never used servos, except in RC toys. I havnt looked into them yet for the conversion. Can I get away with steppers for this machine?
    Do servos have encoders, unlike steppers, so if it gets jammed or what not it will always go to the correct position?
    As I don't have any spare drivers or motors I'll work out whats suitable for me and go from their.
    I run EMC2 with step and direction outputs, do servos work in a similar fashion?
    I dont have much money, considering Z has to be redone I might go for ball screw and servo, X&Y possible just add a stepper, at least then I will have a machine I can start making parts on.
    The parts I make dont need to be super accurate so it should be fine until I get more money



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    Member ninefinger's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chris123 View Post
    I've never used servos, except in RC toys. I havnt looked into them yet for the conversion. Can I get away with steppers for this machine?
    Do servos have encoders, unlike steppers, so if it gets jammed or what not it will always go to the correct position?
    As I don't have any spare drivers or motors I'll work out whats suitable for me and go from their.
    I run EMC2 with step and direction outputs, do servos work in a similar fashion?
    I dont have much money, considering Z has to be redone I might go for ball screw and servo, X&Y possible just add a stepper, at least then I will have a machine I can start making parts on.
    The parts I make dont need to be super accurate so it should be fine until I get more money
    I don't want to tell you to use steppers or use servos - that is a choice you need to make yourself, and a search of the zone will return a million hits on servos versus steppers. At this level servos and steppers are both driven by the same step/dir software so you're good with EMC2. It really depends on you and what you want out of the machine. I ended up picking servos - but I like doing things the hard way!

    I personally think that ballscrews are more important on a machine this size than the servo vrs stepper decision. Regardless of what drives the machine it will be much better off with ball screws due to the reduced friction, with the added benefit of much reduced or eliminated backlash. Cost wise ballscrews aren't too bad either when bought from ebay (ie lookup linearmotionbearing2008 as a vendor) - we don't need ground ballscrews for these machines...

    Good luck.

    Mike



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    Default

    I should be getting the machine shortly as I need it for a job
    Not a good one, but I'll get some money out of it



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    Default

    I should be getting the machine shortly as I need it for a job
    Not a good one, but I'll get some money out of it

    I found a "linearmotionbearing" The ballscrews dont seem that expensive



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    Default

    Hi Chris,

    I've wandered in from the other forum... here is the HM52 build thread

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/knee_v...version-2.html

    That's the same ebay seller is where I got my ballscrews I had no problems.
    eBay Australia Shop - linearmotionbearings:

    As Mike said, you will be happier with ballscrews in the long run, but it's a lot of extra work and I'm guessing you want to start making parts.

    I'll be watching your project with interest.

    Regards
    Ray



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    Default Aricas Benchtop

    Chris:
    I have been looking through your build with interest. I am currently looking at the same 3 phase HM46 from Machinery house, however i have also found a 3 phase Aricas benchtop machine.

    GEAR HEAD BENCH TYPE MILL DRILL, ARICAS - Ind Tools & Mach : Machinery Geared Head Drilling & Milling Machine : Power and Hand Tools, Tool Repair Store Perth

    I believe its a Tiawan built machine. Its very similar in size. I am looking at converting to CNC next year so just trying to get a feel if this machine would convert over to CNC well.
    Did you consider this machine when looking if so any pearls of wisdom on choice HM48 or Aricas ?

    Rgds ... Roy



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    Roy,

    The machine you linked is a round column mill. It can certainly be converted to CNC, but instead of being able to utilize the full travel of the entire head like a dovetail column machine, you would be limited to a Z axis travel of only the quill.

    Just an observation.



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    Default another aussi!

    Hey Chris,

    There are a couple of us here on the zone doing Hm46 conversions. I have found them to be pretty close to the rf-45 style mills in the majority of ways. the z axis has a leadscew, driven by some gears down the bottom, i think you maybe mean wormdrive rather than rack/pinion. Definietly Go the ballscrew conversion, Mine just arrived from linearmotionbearings2008 and seem to be pretty good!. they are defintely alot smoother than leadscrews, and more importantly, have very little backlash. I went for the two nuts per axis so i can pre load.

    I am going with 1600 ozin steppers direct drive onto each axis, but the majority of people on here seem to go the servo route for this size mill. I went steppers for simplicity/cost reasons. check out my build thread here for more details.



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    Hi All.
    I have an HM46 and have been keen to CNC it for some time. Just got the go ahead from the boss (Misses)... so time to buy bits... (and read a heap)
    Any estimates of total cost including Steppers or Servos??



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    Hi Kensby,

    I'm in Brisbane. Anyone else doing an HM46 up here? I'd like to connect with locals who are doing it.



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    Quote Originally Posted by daftec2@bigpond View Post
    Hi Kensby,

    I'm in Brisbane. Anyone else doing an HM46 up here? I'd like to connect with locals who are doing it.
    Hey, I'm in Brissy too, about to buy an HM46 or MH-28V (any reason you went for the 46?). How are the tolerances on the bed/spindle for the 46? Much work to do before CNC'ing?



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    Hi,

    I chose the 46 because it was the biggest machine I could reasonably afford from Machinery house... It is big enough and stiff enough for most milling jobs and has lots of features. the dovetail V's cyclindrical column is an davantage as we could power these also... in fact, I need to do more reading to see if powering these is the more practical rather than powering the quill downfeed.

    If there is a Brisbane or Australian group for CNC-ing I'd like to find them and join up for the obvious advantages of mutual help/cross fertilisation. Lots of blokes here with more experience than I in this, and I'm a mechanical engineer with lots of electronics experience so can offer those skills to assist others. It is also so very obvious that while your mill is in pieces being measured, machined and having bits made to fit to it etc.. it is very handy to know someone local who has a mill that is still in 1 piece and making swarf.

    I'm in Capalaba, and have a friend near caboolture with a digital read-out mill and DRO lathe. I have a DRO lathe but no DRO on the mill, and have been considering this as a lesser expense and much quicker mod.



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    j3dprints,

    Anyone in Brisbane, just add a dotcom to my username and contact me directly.
    Dave



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    j3dprints

    I looked at the HM-28V and it has less power and is lighter and therefore less stiff than the HM-46. It specifies smaller cuts etc. so that suggests less stiff. Stiffness is very important in a mill of course to reduce vibration and twisting under load. I dont remember tollerance on bed n spindle, but they are all adjustable, and we could pull them down and lap the ways for a "perfect" fit on x/y and Z but not the quill of course. I have found that the quill shaft bends when the quill grip is tightened even though it is about 60mm diameter... Everything bends under load, but I was surprised that it was so visible. Overall the 46 looks like a good machine and I have used it a lot manually. I will replace all the lead screws with ball screws.



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    Default Re: another aussi!

    Quote Originally Posted by daftec2@bigpond View Post
    Hi,

    I chose the 46 because it was the biggest machine I could reasonably afford from Machinery house... It is big enough and stiff enough for most milling jobs and has lots of features. the dovetail V's cyclindrical column is an davantage as we could power these also... in fact, I need to do more reading to see if powering these is the more practical rather than powering the quill downfeed.

    If there is a Brisbane or Australian group for CNC-ing I'd like to find them and join up for the obvious advantages of mutual help/cross fertilisation. Lots of blokes here with more experience than I in this, and I'm a mechanical engineer with lots of electronics experience so can offer those skills to assist others. It is also so very obvious that while your mill is in pieces being measured, machined and having bits made to fit to it etc.. it is very handy to know someone local who has a mill that is still in 1 piece and making swarf.

    I'm in Capalaba, and have a friend near caboolture with a digital read-out mill and DRO lathe. I have a DRO lathe but no DRO on the mill, and have been considering this as a lesser expense and much quicker mod.
    There is hackerspace at Hamilton but it's a fair drive. Having said that I may join it one day.

    What sort of things are you looking at making on your HM-46? My first items will be parts for a CNC router so I may go for the Optimum as accuracy is more of a concern than stiffness. H&F will measure two up for me this week though, who knows the Hafco might have closer tolerances.

    I am surprised the quill of the HM-46 was visibly deflecting.



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