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Thread: CNC Mill Flood Coolant Cabinet

  1. #1
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    Default CNC Mill Flood Coolant Cabinet

    Yet another X2 CNC build, with enclosure cabinet.

    Picked up this X2 on eBay about a year ago, and have been fiddling with it ever since, but now that I have finally moved and am settled in, it's time to build!

    So for starters I needed a cabinet to help me to not take the aluminum chips into the home (the women would like that very much).

    Plus this would give me a way to run coolant, for those nice clean cuts.

    Next the control console, something nice, worthy of the cabinet, with expansion for later bells and whistles.

    I’ll leave the X2 alone for now, until I’m ready to get it bolted inside the cabinet.

    I have got most of my shopping done. For the enclosure, and control console. But I have some further research for few of my open items... flood coolant type? coolant pump type or brand?

    here are a few starting photos, for anyone following along with the build, with this being my first winter in my new state, I imagine this being all I work on for the next couple of months.

    Hope you enjoy the post!

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  2. #2
    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default Hey no fair.....

    That's not fair, you got the fourth axis I want before I do.... sum*****in' poor no paying job I got cannot afford the cool stuff... How do you like the little machine shop head and I see it is fitted with a stepper as well as a motor. Have you run it as a lathe yet? How do you find the power? I am planning on something very similar soon.... Work keeps getting in the way. Man IF only I did not have to make a livin' I would have so much damn fun....haha


    Peace



    Pete



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    Thanks, the forth does fine for now, i have a servo motor to replace the two separate motors, and a larger chuck, but i want to get this enclosure indoors soon. the stepper setup is not good as it is, i would do it as a worm drive if i did it again, better holding, with less strain on the stepper. Noel



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    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default That seems to be the main dig here.....

    You want the lathe headstock so you can setup a cnc lathe operation on your mill table, yet you want also the positioning holding power of a true fourth axis. That is not so easy to do I guess. I would have thought that a good gear reduction and a largish stepper would get the job done but apparently not. I do think that the DC motor is probably your best bet for the lathe part. I have largish servos on my mill and they are great at moving the machine but I do not think they would fare any better at the holding torque than that large stepper. I am sure you have probably seen that fellow that used a 5c indexer and made a really cool fourth axis that has enough speed for a lathe. He used a dual belt setup and a different pulley ratio for positioning all with a large servo motor. He also seemed to have to use a solenoid driven locking mechanism on the spindle to be able to do any kind of heavy indexed cutting on it. There has gotta be an easier way to have your cake and eat it too here... Peace


    Pete



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    that's my approach too, servo for lathe and indexing, but pneumatic brake for work holding, about the only way to do it good enough...



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    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default I wonder.....

    I have been thinking about this problem too... I had an idea that perhaps one of these electric brakes that some have put on their square column mills to hold the head when power is off might somehow be setup to lock down the spindle when the power is not going to the motor. I realize that a servo always has power to it but I dunno if there is a way to setup to sense when it is spinning in one direction or another, basically anytime there is movement the brake is off.... Even if it was on the servo itself it might work instead of the spindle.... If it was on the spindle you could machine a kinda brake disk around the spindle body that it could act on which might also serve as a spindle position sensor for threading work and you could just use it as a brake disk in positioning mode.... MAYBE!!!



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    even our robodrills at work use a break(or clamping mechanism) to hold the 4th/5th axis in place...

    out okuma lathes that are servo driven can obtain excellent position but lack holding power(not really needed on our setup as its used for turning only) I can put an allen wrench into an M8 bolt on the spindle and easily pull it an inch as it fights back, and I have also faulted the servos out trying to break bolts loose.

    you would have to have some sort of break for sure if you were doing any heavy duty cutting. I think for hobby purpose swapping out a good DC motor and a stepper is not such a bad option as long as your mounting is clever.

    http://www.g0704.blogspot.com/


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    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default Interesting......

    So even the big boys machines need the brake it seems. Of course a real fourth axis that is strictly made for indexing probably does not need this as they are probably geared way down for holding torque. Those guys have large cnc lathes for their cnc turning I guess and do not play with toys like we do. I think it is just a really cool capability to turn and index on the same machine and it is surely possible as some have done it. Just wondering if there is an easier way..... I kinda like the brake ideas tho.... peace:rainfro:



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    Is that the factory table? Looks longer.



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    I doubled the tables welded and remachined, so now I running a 24 x 12y well auctually more but I limit it to that.



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    Quote Originally Posted by pete from TN View Post
    You want the lathe headstock so you can setup a cnc lathe operation on your mill table, yet you want also the positioning holding power of a true fourth axis. That is not so easy to do I guess. I would have thought that a good gear reduction and a largish stepper would get the job done but apparently not. I do think that the DC motor is probably your best bet for the lathe part. I have largish servos on my mill and they are great at moving the machine but I do not think they would fare any better at the holding torque than that large stepper. I am sure you have probably seen that fellow that used a 5c indexer and made a really cool fourth axis that has enough speed for a lathe. He used a dual belt setup and a different pulley ratio for positioning all with a large servo motor. He also seemed to have to use a solenoid driven locking mechanism on the spindle to be able to do any kind of heavy indexed cutting on it. There has gotta be an easier way to have your cake and eat it too here... Peace

    Pete
    A guy named "Simpson36" on the ArtSoft "General Mach Discussion" forum did a really nice 4th axis using braked servo about a year or so ago. You should go look up that thread. He went through several iterations, but ended up with something that works really well. You should learn from his experience. He cranks out some really nice parts on that thing.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default Yeah ray.....

    That is the fella I was talking about, could'nt remember his name offhand. I watched that thread pretty closely and then it just stopped. His final version was very capable and I have been trying to decide if my future holds a 5C indexer built setup like he made or a Littlemachineshop Mini Lathe head like this fella has. It is a tough choice because the 5c setup would maybe be cheaper to build but the lathe head is a proven entity and about the right size and shape for the setup I need. Tormach built their duality lathe with one altho it met with mixed reviews from what I heard. Some liked it most said it was kinda weak. In all actuality, I think that a mini lathe head like this one mixed with some ideas from simpsons design Ala the solenoid or brake setup and a two speed pulley setup would work quite well. You do not need massive spindle speed for most lathe projects altho it would be nice but I rarely run my 12 inch lathe over 2k anyways.... SO all you really need is a good torquey setup with two speeds much like my belt drive and a means to lock the spindle for indexing when the motor is not turning. The mini lathe head is cast Iron I think and I was thinking of mounting it to a large aluminum plate to lock it to the table with and also to get some center height. Then you would also need to rig up some sort of tailstock perhaps the mini lathes tailstock. Looking at the Duality lathe I would not be surprised that most of the rigidity or weakness problems lie in the fact that the machine is mounted to the mill table and the cutter is held in the millhead which makes the whole damn lathe a large lever against the cutting forces trying to rip the thing off the table. A regular lathe takes those forces and directs them down thru it;s own bed and compound, carriage so the lever is only as long as the compound really. The mini lathe fourth axis head bolted directly to the table and the tool held in the millhead gets rid of a bunch of that slop so I would think it should actually be better. That and you also end up with a mini cnc lathe with a distance between centers that is as long as your mill table minus the head and tailstock.... on your machine that would be like what six feet!!! haha peace

    Pete



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    Quote Originally Posted by pete from TN View Post
    Of course a real fourth axis that is strictly made for indexing probably does not need this as they are probably geared way down for holding torque.
    not sure about that, we have 30 different 5 axis Fanuc RoboDrills and all of the use a break on the 4th and 5th axis...maybe a setup out there but ours runs really well...we hold 8 micron tolerances all day long at high production type speed...It locks and unlocks using an M code, I havent seen one in the Mach3 M code table but im sure it would work all the same...

    http://www.g0704.blogspot.com/


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    Quote Originally Posted by mwood3 View Post
    not sure about that, we have 30 different 5 axis Fanuc RoboDrills and all of the use a break on the 4th and 5th axis...maybe a setup out there but ours runs really well...we hold 8 micron tolerances all day long at high production type speed...It locks and unlocks using an M code, I havent seen one in the Mach3 M code table but im sure it would work all the same...
    One of the nice things about Mach3 is it's trivial to "create" your own M-codes with VB macros. Create a file named MXXX.m1s in the Mach3/macros directory, put your VB code in it, then use MXXX in your G-code. So, if you put M1000.m1s and M1001.m1s in the macros directory, with the appropriate code in them your G-code would use M1000 to set the brake, and M1001 to release the brake.

    There's a Mach3 VB Programmers Reference Manual available here:

    http://www.machsupport.com/documentation.php

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Well i had a little time today to work on the enclosure, so here are a few new pictures, it started to rain, so i headed indoors to work on the control console and relay box for the flood coolant.
    looking at what i can salvage from my current setup, and how i would like to rearrange things.
    also i added a few pics of my X2 setup, since there has been some posting.

    thanks for following.

    Noel

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    Gold Member pete from TN's Avatar
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    Default Looking good....

    Interesting that you were able to weld up two tables together. care to elaborate how you managed that? Some interesting goings on ya got there.... Is that a manual quick change drawbar? I am looking to do some of these things on my RF45 right now. Especially the tooling plate. Do you feel like the two hold down screws will be adequate for the machine or do you have other hold down ideas in store? Also how does that fourth axis get attatched to the mill table? Cannot see any hold downs in the pics..... Do you plan on glassing that enclosure inside? Anyways... nice work and good looking machine setup... peace

    Pete



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    You might want to reconsider those Crydom SSRs. I had two of them on my machine. They lasted about six weeks, then both blew. Even worse, they died ON, so I could not turn my machine off without flipping the breaker! Very dangerous from a safety standpoint, especially since this is on a servo-based machine. I replaced them with a 40A DPDT motor contactor that's been fine ever since (about 18 mos now). It was actually cheaper than the Crydoms as well (from Surplus Center).

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Well that table was an ordeal, basicly i drilled and tapped the two sides, machined 1.5 x .75 bars for both sides, then welded to two halves plus bars together with about a 1lb of Nirod. i have two more tables to weld up here soon, but i'll have to do a write-up on that next time.
    the SSR's are for fluid control, not a big problem if they were to fail, but thanks for the insight.

    Noel



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    well i had some time the week to get some work done on the mill cabinet.

    here are a few pics to help tell the story.
    the first few are a raining day touchscreen setup, followed by some finished control console and placement for the touch screen and keyboard,
    next week i should be running my wiring and flood coolant plumbing when my pump shows up.

    oh and for those who may be wondering, cost is about:
    wood for cabinet 80.00
    paint and prep stuff 20.00
    sheet metal for the control console 15.00
    15" touch screen 30.00
    apple keyboard 15.00 (well i used the new one in the house, this one has a dead usb port.
    the rest of the items were pulled from my earlier control console. but i think at was around 150.00 for the MPG and panel mount buttons.
    oh and for the pendent (not shown) 89.00

    i cant wait to make chips again!!

    thanks for looking!

    N.

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