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Thread: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

  1. #1021
    Member gd.marsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Bob,

    It's possible that I have snagged a few of the good deals that have shown up on eBay .. I've been shopping pretty aggressively since making the switch .. I really like the idea of the tube spacer between upper & lower bearings .. might have to go back in and make that mod myself ..
    I'm pretty pleased with the change, even though I've had to re-tool ..

    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Yeah, the retooling has taken a large bite out of my tool budget. But I had to tool up to turn the new housing too. I think that dude is 11" long or so, and I didn't have a boring bar or even drills to get through it. I tackled that from both ends to get a rough hole through. Then beyond that, I didn't have precise enough metrology tools to measure the final bores. That project showed me I needed to outfit the shop better in the metrology department, so I ended up buying some nice bore gauges and mics to go up to 6".

    That pain is in the past for the most part now. Back when I started buying BT30 tools in 2015, they were lower in cost than what they go for now. But some are tough to find used. My boring head ended up being brand new for the head and shank. Lucked into the new head, but not so lucky for the shank. I even lucked into a real low cost tool setter. Feel like I stole it. But I just paid the man his asking price. I think I got 33 or so BT30 tools now, the goal is 42. I've been following the Haas tool plan with multiples in some of the usual diameter cutters and standard drills and the like already set up in individual holders. I'm just missing some of the dupe sizes.

    Bob



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Just an update to mention Craigslist add no longer active .. Still a few items on eBay, search for Tormach TTS.
    Thanks!

    Last edited by gd.marsh; 02-20-2017 at 07:36 PM.


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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    ga1na2 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gd.marsh View Post
    Just an update to mention Craigslist add no longer active .. Still a few items on eBay, search for Tormach TTS.
    Thanks!




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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    That's the one Richard ..
    Not much left there now, stuff started moving pretty fast once I decided to put it up on eBay ..
    Was kind of wishing to find someone local who was interested in the whole lot so I wouldn't have to mess with shipping .. but oh well ..



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    I mentioned awhile back I had to do some clean up on mine as well. When I built mine, I used the little SX3 to do most of the work so I had some limitations to work around. I never did build my enclosure and really need to. I'm also seeing some backlash in my ball nuts as well.

    I'm debating on how much more I will do to my RF45. Every time I get ready to tear it down a job or three come in that's perfect for it but the limited travel kill me.

    Now, I really need something with at least 18-20 of travel on the Y axis for some projects I've been doing. I surely can't afford or justify a Haas and some of the Fadals 4020's still go for a pretty penny plus the travel time and inspection cost.

    I do some adapter plates from 18" diameter steel plate that require the OD to be machined round and true, then the ID round and true, then a ton of holes drilled and some reamed for dowel pins. I'm doing the initial plate Shape on my CNC Plasma, then machine the OD and ID on the Lathe, then I center drill, and drill all the holes with the Sharp, and it barely gets all the holes. It ends up about 6 hours of work manually. If I could do all these ops on a cnc mill that would save a ton of time.

    I started looking at some CNC Bed Mills that have the Y travel I need. The ProtoTraks and Mighty Comets are close to my price range, but they would need to cut pretty true circles.

    Dang, I got into left field, but I was also curious how your ball screws, nuts, and backlash held up over the years? I have to go back and look how you did yours. I ended up using the Rockfords on mine with 2 nuts spung back to back. It works, but it never worked real well. It's always a balance on gib adjustment and depth of cut and ...... You know.

    ATC works fine, controls all work fine, but mechanical portion of it is okay but needs improvement.

    Back to work...
    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by gd.marsh View Post
    Time for some spring cleaning ..

    The Mill has been running well for several years now but after minor changes, additions, re-do's, etc. the control box is a crowded mess .. So I've decided it's time to start over & make it a little neater & easier to work on ..


    Thanks in advance,
    gd.marsh




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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Great to hear from you Richard,

    Your conversion journey sounds very much like mine. I do use my machine for my own 1-off projects, but would not be willing to step into a production situation with it. I work on my machine almost as much as I use it. Partially because of 'new ideas' I come up with for additions to the machine, partially because of my 'hobby level' design & machining skills that often require several iterations of a component /idea to achieve anything close to reliable levels of accuracy & durability. I still have not made that upgrade to my control cabinet. I have gathered most of the parts I need but want to be able to do the re-fit in a somewhat quick & orderly fashion .. so have been waiting for the 'right' opportunity to do it. In the mean time other 'hot projects' keep jumping in front of that one.

    The spindle change to BT30 was done out of frustration over tool slippage with the TTS system. Don't know if that was a problem that was unique to me or not, but I just got sick & tired of ruining parts when the tool holder would begin to creep out of the collet. (most of the time while I wasn't standing there watching it!) I suppose returning to a hand tightened drawbar would have solved a lot of that but still felt like my machine should be able to do a little heavier hogging than I have ever been able to do. That is behind me now, all but a few TTS drill chucks are gone, and just a few more BT30 tool holders to arrive & I'm not looking back.
    I have also tossed around the idea of finding a used VMC .. but wouldn't have room for one in my shop if it was given to me. (If I had a shop the size of yours I wouldn't even hesitate!)

    I built my 45 with Roton ballscrews & double nuts with bellville washers to keep them loaded.
    I have had to tear the machine down once or twice to make some changes to my mounts etc, but basically just use backlash comp. when I begin to notice it creeping up.

    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Yes, I used Rotons, not Rockfords.

    Wow, My rolling cart broke a wheel today and tossed my super spacer down to the concrete slab.
    It took a nice chuck out of the floor but I got lucky and only 1 corner of the spacer hit. It filed out easy and everything still works smooth, so far.

    Good yacking with you. Headed to town.
    Catch you later.

    Heck, I might need to look Pete up and see if his Arrow is still going. I might farm out those plates if his charges and shipping cost allowed.


    Richard

    Last edited by rwskinner; 02-23-2017 at 01:04 AM. Reason: spell check messed up my words!


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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    So I've been working on powering the threaded drawbar & wound up using a 12v impact driver motor to handle the job.
    Already have a pretty high amperage 12v power supply in the control box so just drew power from that.
    My VFD has a programmable relay on-board so set that up to lock out all power to the drawbar when the spindle is on.

    Because it's an impact driver .. the 'hammering' action works quite well at tightening & loosening the drawbar without having to lock the spindle to prevent it from spinning.
    I have to say with this addition I'm happily back to very quick tool changes even with the BT30 tool holders & threaded drawbar.

    I've included a few pictures .. not the best but all I have for now.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bolton ZX45 Conversion-pdb-full-view-jpg   Bolton ZX45 Conversion-pdb-air-cyl-jpg   Bolton ZX45 Conversion-pdb-switch-jpg  


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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Well that's very simple and sounds effective. I've been exploring the use of cordless drill motors and gear reduction units for doing the same with my threaded draw bar. My stuff seems to start complex and get more so over time, way unlike what you did there.

    Did you setup any sort of torque control on it or just run it while the switch is depressed? Guessing the switch lowers then powers the motor.

    Regards
    Bob



  11. #1031
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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Bob,

    It is pretty straight forward & simple.
    I began my design processes with a much more complex system in mind. Arduino control, multiple sensors, spindle lock, torque control, etc. .. along the lines of the unit Novakon sells for their mills.
    As I mentioned it was in the testing phase of the impact driver that I realized there was a much simpler way to accomplish what I was after.
    I decided to go the simple route as a starter to determine if I really needed to make it more complex.
    So far I don't think I will continue to pursue the more complex route, that is unless something in the present system does prove to be deficient to the point of frustration.

    The switch does actuate both air & motor functions together.
    I thought that would be the weakness of the system with no sure way to guarantee alignment between the socket & drawbar nut. So to help it a little I used a 12pt socket & put a slightly larger radius on the top edge of the nut .. so far I'm very happy with the performance. Mind you it's brand new so my assessment could change with heavier use, but it has worked beautifully up to this point, so right now I'm a happy camper!

    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    That was a starting point for mine as well and so far includes the pieces you mention. I was going for spindle alignment thinking it didn't need locking, but that was not a given, just a thought and a starting point. I didn't want to use air on any of the pieces either, so that makes it it a bit more complex.

    Have you found the BT30 tools get released easily enough? I'm thinking the air cylinder probably imparts decent pressure on the drawbar to help release the tools. I have a couple that need a good rap on the drawbar to get them to drop out of engagement with the taper in the spindle. So I anticipated that as something I'd need to deal with.

    Heck, I've not even started on the belt drive conversion outside of the few of the pieces I built some years back, so i got lots of time to think things through on an auto draw bar. I'm so slow. But the BT30 spindle has found me with new inspiration on that front. It's so nice in actual use.

    Regards
    Bob



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Bob,

    Agreed, I also had concerns about pushing the taper out of the spindle, because with hand tightening It does take a little rap to break it lose .. but with the combination of the air cyl. pushing down & the hammering action of the impact, I've had ZERO problems with that up to this point. Every tool I've put in has pushed right out in my hand with the power setup.
    The biggest problem I seem to have with my machine is that I work ON the machine just about as much as I USE it for projects. I began this conversion 7yrs ago and I'm still not complete. So we're pretty much in the same boat where that is concerned ..

    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Thought I would add a few more pictures to illustrate the slide assembly that holds the motor.

    These parts were run after the new BT30 spindle was operational and I was testing the hogging capabilities of the new setup with a 3/4" end mill roughing them out.
    There are oil-embedded bronze bushings that slide on 5/8" hard chrome rods with an alum. sleeve that slides over the impact motor for protection & clamping capabilities.

    Other than these drawings, there are no other plans to offer just in case anyone was to ask.

    Cheers,
    Gary

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bolton ZX45 Conversion-motor-bracket-body-jpg   Bolton ZX45 Conversion-_motor-bracket-clamp-jpg   Bolton ZX45 Conversion-_motor-bracket-complete-jpg  


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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    1

    Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Gary;
    Great concept and application. Several; years ago a forum member offered (for sale) plans to make a pneumatic power drawbar that works on a very similar principle. It was designed around a harbor freight impact driver and an air cylinder to power it down to the drawbar head. Very simple to make with the only difficult part being soldering a couple 1/8" tubes onto the base unit. I still use the design on my bridgeport since it is simple but alas, I have to fire up the compressor prior to using the device. Electric would be much better. Congrats on a very nice design.
    Bill

    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)


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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Bill,
    I'm familiar with the butterfly impact jobs. I've got one on my Bridgeport too.
    I initially considered going that route on the 45, but the air impacts are too loud & spin too fast for my tastes.
    Thanks for the kind words,
    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Hi Gary,
    Very nice setup looks efficient! Could you clarify a couple points? What 12v impact drive motor is this Do you have a model #
    Also is there a way to Know when it is tight enough or do you go by sound ?
    Curious if this would be suitable for atc tool changes albeit a little slow
    thanks sam



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Sam,

    I used a Milwaukee M12 .. didn't buy a kit, just the driver itself.
    As for tight enough, I do go by sound .. with the BT30 tool holders it doesn't take a ton of torque on the drawbar to lock the tool into the taper and it's driven with two keys attached to bottom of the spindle like CAT holders.
    Basically one short burst & it's there! Then as mentioned, the hammering action coupled with downward force of the air cylinder pops them out very efficiently.
    I think it would work fine with an ATC but you would likely have to add a spindle lock & a few sensors to control timing & assure safe tool changes with TTS tooling .. along the lines of the Novakon unit, as I originally set out to do.

    Gary



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    Default Re: Bolton ZX45 Conversion

    Thanks Gary,
    For the information Building and maintaining your own CNC machine is a never ending story for most of us. It seems there's always something we want to improve or change!
    Be Safe,
    Sam



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