2D to 3D Extrude, taper, Custom Axe cheek taper problem.

[countryguy]

Good day everyone! Spring is finally in the the Northern Midwest! Yahoo. My kid (he's 17) started a small business doing custom Axes. I have attached the autocad 2014 file (as DWG). We took a customers 2D drawing and are trying to make into 3D. I'm still learning Autocad hoestly. I have researched & researched to no Avail.

the issue: The axe cheeks (the face taper to a tip/edge) I simply cannot get to extrude w/ a proper extruded taper/loft? I'm stuck! The objective is to get this into 3D and let the CNC machine the taper w/ endmill to properly cheek the axe.

You will see the open section where I've put in Polylines but am unable to get the 3D setting to stick.

Even a hint at how to go about this would be extremly welcome!

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[ger21]

Since the edge of the blade is an arc, I'd do a revolve and then blend it into the main body. I'd also do it all in solids, rather than surfaces, as it's probably a bit easier. I haven't worked with surfaces a lot, as they are newer commands.

I don't have time right now, but I can try to do something tonight.

[ger21]

Looks like the SURFBLEND command will do what you need.

[countryguy]

Thanks Gerry, OK - The SURFedge and surfpatch and surfnetwork are not too happy but is still under investigation. If anyone knows how to quickly convert this into a Solid from Edge, I'd love to do that and work that way. I'm reading about converting Polylines to Solids - Hope I'm on the right track. Just need to put in time on the keys and read read read. quick tips always welcome .CG

[countryguy]

We'll Honestly- I went over to MecSoft since I am looking at their CAM tool for the CNC Mill. They took the Axe and make the part from my DWG file via solidworks in about 5Mins. Only issue is they would not tell me how or send back a file. So I have a Picture.... Gee thanks ;-) Once you know how to fish, you can catch many. I think we'll just go over there for the $99 Student edition and try that out. I Love their DraftSight!

[ger21]

OK, I figured out how to do this as a solid. I did need to make a slight modification to the bottom of the edge where it ties into the body.

Here's a quick rundown of what I did, and the drawing has some examples in it.

First, I drew some perpendicular lines from the center of the arc to the ends.
Then I created some profile for lofting.

I then extended the arc a little bit past the top and bottom of the blade, as the perpendicular cross sections would have ended up a little short, because your top and bottom aren't perpendicular to the arc.

In the drawing, you'll see where I placed the cross sections. I then added arcs and polylines for loft guides.

Using the Loft command, I selected the cross sections in order, then hot enter. Then select all the guides, and hit enter again. Maybe once more?

At this point, you should have the lofted edge. You'll notice, though, that the ends are open, and need to be closed. I used surfpatch to close the ends.
Once the ends are closed, you can convert it to a solid. I think I used Modify> 3D Operations > Convert to Solid.

Once it's a solid, I added some cubes, and used the align command to place them at the top and bottom of the blade where I had extended it earlier. I then subtracted the cubes to trim off the excess.

At this point, I just needed to add the main body. I converted the outline of everything but the blade to a Region, and extruded it .25".
Note:Region is a handy tool when creating solids by extruding or lofting. You can convert lines, polylines, splines and other objects into a planer region for lofting or extruding. This allows you to extrude combinations of entities than can't normally be joined or closed.


Once the body was extruded, I used Union to join them together.

Simple.

Actually, I'd never done anything like this, so it took me about 30 minutes to figure it out.

AutoCAD is a very powerful tool, but it's also rather complex, due to the sheer number of tools it has. I've been using it daily for over 15 years, and still learn new things regularly.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to help.

[countryguy]

Thank You & Thank you again. - This is what I needed to know. I will experiment & grow . Looks awesome.

[countryguy]

Hi Ger21. You did Nail it (as we knew). The learning the basics is the pits. I have an idea and a Q or 2 more if you are game? I did send you a bit more in a PM regarding this.

.... I attached a new .DWG file of an Axe which is for a Friend/Fireman. I found a command under "Solid Editing" called TAPER FACES. Looks exactly like what I wanted.

I Did take some stabs at your options. Just did not get too far..... Starting thinking in another plane again. ;- ) Bad move- 5 hours later here I am still !! LOL.

I actually have 2 scenarios here.
1) Take a single Axe face (the Yellow Line Set in the DWG) and extruded ( even tried to Press-pull) into .thickness of 125. Stuck here-> Convert to a Solid. Then use the 'taper faces'. in the Solids Editing!

It sounded so easy! I cooe'd with awwwwe until- Doink- I cannot seem to ever convert a single thing into a SOLID? I've used Flatten, Region, Surface.... Watched a dozed YouTube's and did my share of Surfing. What should I be reading to turn a line, 2D line, Poly line into a solid? I did use your SURFPATCH. Nothing I do will get me a simple Solid? Bummed out on this one!

2) Onto the 3 Purple Axe faces. Since each "face" is a closed shape, I've omiited the rest of the axe. Done't need it to model and shape anyway (yet). I wanted to take three lines of differing elevations. Stacked over each other exactly. From Edge on, They look as 3 purple lines. Where I am stuck: I wanted to rotate the upper purple line from the edge up say 10' . The middle line stays as is. Then rotate the bottom line to -10'.

I end up w/ a "<" and 1 line "-" in the middle when looking edge on. then just LOFT it. but I'm not able to figure out how to get the 2d shape to act 3D (in a sense) from the edge on. This one, I am thinking is not really do-able? But thought I'd ask. I could then marry it to the .25 handle and head where they meet on -edge. Lopp off the excess... Or do the math and have them line up perfectlly.

[ger21]

1) Take a single Axe face (the Yellow Line Set in the DWG) and extruded ( even tried to Press-pull) into .thickness of 125. Stuck here-> Convert to a Solid. Then use the 'taper faces'. in the Solids Editing!

When you extrude it, it will be a solid after extruding. No need to convert it.

2) Onto the 3 Purple Axe faces. Since each "face" is a closed shape, I've omiited the rest of the axe. Done't need it to model and shape anyway (yet). I wanted to take three lines of differing elevations. Stacked over each other exactly. From Edge on, They look as 3 purple lines. Where I am stuck: I wanted to rotate the upper purple line from the edge up say 10' . The middle line stays as is. Then rotate the bottom line to -10'.

I end up w/ a "<" and 1 line "-" in the middle when looking edge on. then just LOFT it. but I'm not able to figure out how to get the 2d shape to act 3D (in a sense) from the edge on. This one, I am thinking is not really do-able? But thought I'd ask. I could then marry it to the .25 handle and head where they meet on -edge. Lopp off the excess... Or do the math and have them line up perfectlly.

I'd go about it more like the previous one. Create a profile at the top and bottom, and guide curves between them. Again, because of your profile, you'll need to extend it a little past and trim it.
It would be a bit easier if the taper was a uniform width from the edge of the blade, because it would then be a simple revolve of the profile. But it's not that difficult to do it like I did the other one.

When I get home from work, I'll throw something together for you. Do you want the edge to be sharp, or have a small flat thickness?

[countryguy]

Thank you very much for Taking the time to support & assist! I guess what's odd is that after extruding the face, none of the 3D commands seemed to work. I coult not get the shape to have the solid covering and such? I did fine this tool called 'automesher' and did use it to convert an extruded Axe face into what it 'claimed' was a solid. I do realize I'm throwing spagetti at this point. going back to just finding a good Autocad vido or reading lecture today for getting started w/ 3D objects at Lunch. Enjoy the workday Ger! JJout.

Import / Export 3D file formats, convert polyface mesh to solid and solid to mesh for AutoCAD / BricsCAD / ZWCAD

[countryguy]

Ohh and on the milestone alert.... LOL, A small Victory. I found the "visual stypes in drawing" pull down. In a single click was able to get the objects to show as colored faces! :-) From Wireframe to Solid to ... a selection of options! Ahh the little things! The mountain is moved not by great force.... But a single pebble at a time. GeekOn! CG.

[ger21]

Here's a quick sample. More info later.
It's really a lot easier than you're making it out to be.

[countryguy]

OK - Been a great day of reading and learning AutoDesk. Gotta say I'm getting to be a FAN!
I have attached a .DWG file with about 7 steps that I figured out. I now can turn this in about 5mins w/ the commands of : Region, Extrude, Solid Edit/Taper Face - But I'm not sure how well it'll come out via a CNC and CAM process.... But I did make some grand headway on my own today w/ some solid reading and YouTube Vids. Best of all I'm starting to feel Comfortable w/ the UI in this Monster! ;-) Thanks Ger!

Now- that said- I'm not sure how this approach differes from Ger21's professional approach - I'm still just a hack at this point. And I really do need to get into the Taper Angles & MEasurements which will leave the edge to about 1/16" for the final Grind w/ a Wet-Stone 70rpm sharpener tool. It'll shave hair off your arm when done.

I have a Pic

[ger21]

Here's a step by step instruction of how I'd do it. With 3D modeling in AutoCAD, there are often several different ways to do most things.

Personally, I think that the lofting gives you better control of the edge shape than tapering the face.

You may notice that I set up my AutoCAD interface to be a little cleaner than most. Just a single toolbar with flyout toolbars with most of the commands I use. I have my most commonly used commands in my right click menu.

[countryguy]

Thanks a TON! I would agree but being so so new i simply need to put in the time and learn the UI and commands. I love the big ol' toolbars for now - Let's me hoover and read... If anyone is following this thread besides Gerry- My hack method w/ the Face Taper does have a problem. the base thickness (defaulted to .25) in the examples changes w/ the taper angle. So a 2 degree loft on each face leaves a thickness of say .27+ I am able to "join" the two w/ Align and Union.... But I cannot figure out (*yet) how to change the thickness to exactly .25 (outside of the isolate face and widget it... I cannot get a dialog box to input .25? time to review ger21 and a pro's way!! This guy is amazing! This is sort of a play by play for my Son who gets to dig in and learn all of this too. Ohhh... if anyone is into Plasma and 2D CNC work (Since Z is really torch height and automated more or less) and wants to get into 3D - totally exciting! CGout.

Example screen shot of the face taper w/ the thickness issues:

[ger21]

Not sure why you needed 4 steps to taper the faces? I can do it in two steps, and keep the thickness at .25".

When you choose the Taper Face option, you pick two points which define the "hinge" location of the taper, if that makes sense. If the first point is on the back edge, and the second point is along a line perpendicular to the back edge, than the back edge position will not change, and your 1/4" thickness will remain unchanged.

The biggest issue I see with this method is that the edge thickness varies, because you have two flat tapered faces trimmed along a curve, which leaves the top and bottom of the edge thicker than the center.

[victorofga]

i also think it simpler than it looking..

the edge can be made with extrude along path if a curved edge need..

in my sample i made a rectangle and triangle merged, like a ""house shape""

extruded as the red arrow shows..

two another object made with extrude as another red arrows showing..

eventually subtracted the two objects from the first..

[ger21]

Extrude along path doesn't work in this case, because the width of the taper varies along it's length.

I had originally thought that this was the best option, but after rethinking, I like the lofting method the best. You do need a newer version of AutoCAD that has all these new features. I think Lofting was added in 2007, but I think you need an even newer version to do what I did.
I haven't kept up with all the new 3D functionality that's been added to AutoCAD, so I don't really know when certain features were added.

[victorofga]

i knew i missed something... like many other times..

well... lofting i saw first time in 3dstudio ... in the version 2.. and i think because of 3dstudio, autocad was always ""back"" behind on modeling functions..


from 3dstudio models can be moved into autocad..

what i using of autocad theyre in the early versions.. for modeling i go rather with subdivison modelers, they are more flexible on surfaces than solid models..

tough would be interesting to try a never autocad..

[countryguy]

Thanks for all the input everyone! This is getting Fun huh! I'm going finish this thread now w/ my Final Drawing set over a 5 day crash course in 3D. It's not perfect or as accurate as ger21`s process, but is how I learned the basics of 3D. I'm hooked as well!
Now it's time to take these into Mecsofts FREEMill and start to work the CAM to gcode/ CNC side. Maybe even some Wax protos in the coming few weeks. That is the goal. I cannot say Thanks enough to Ger21!

To the point about the Taper in 4 -vs- 2 steps 1 post back- Yep that was a mistake. That is what resulted in the size mismatch in sizes. The ticket was to use the 3d-OSNAPS and get to Midpoint on the taper face both front and rear! Then I'm on but not exact. This is where the weak point is. Again, I learned a ton!

Use ger21's method (attached a few threads below this) as it is a more accurate & repeatable way when to get into these setup w/ FreeMill and actual CNC work. Hope this was somethign that helped someone else out along the way in the future as well.


Keys: Autocad 2014 SURFBLEND 3D OSNAP Settings 3DALIGN SOLID EDITING TAPER FACE, OFFSET FACE, Midpoint, Taper Degrees.