help needed I have a matched three pin spindle and VFD drive

[TonyAy]

Hi all I am new to CNC routers and although I have managed to connect up to Mach 3 with the router and have Limit,and home switches wired up and soft limits working the VFD/Spindle is proving more than I can get my head around without some help (lots probably)

I have attached a copy of the breakout board I am using together with extracts from the VFD manual (some pages need to be rotated sorry.

Spindle and VFD are connected via a three pin plug (No Earth) the combination was purchased on Ebay. I wish to connect the VFD unit to the computer and control activity through Mach3.

The unit works fine via the control panel but trying to sort out which Control ports to connect to the breakout board and indeed which ports on the board to connect to so that control is through Mach3 are deleting already grey hair from my head.

My fault I thought I was ok buying the HY series however this is not the traditional version with 3 hot wires and 1 earth connecting VFD and spindle NO as i mentioned earlier just 3 hot wires. No earth and Control ports are reduced to one line of 16

suggestions would be appreciated

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[Stewey]

I'm probably not going to be much help, as I don't use Mach 3, (we use Enroute), however we do use a VFD.
However, I have the VFD set up as a manually controlled item - NOT via the PC.

I turn it on and off and adjust the speed/frequency as required with the knob on it.
The VFD that drives the router is a brand I've forgotten - but I have it as a 3-phase in and 3 phase out speed controller.

I also later bought a Hunyang one (or however it is spelled) - to run another little 3-phase machine direct from single phase 240vAC.
It works fine, except the VFD has to be allowed to soft-start and bring the motor up to speed by itself.
That unit came with the option of single OR 3 phase in, and 3 phase out.
I'm no expert on the manual - it's tough to follow!

[handlewanker]

Hi.......my 2 cents worth so if it's only worth that much disregard it.......as far as I know the VFD receives single phase 220 volts AC and put out 3 phase to the spindle..

To get the VFD to be RPM variable from the computer and controlled by Mach3 you need to feed a 5 volt (or 10 volt I think) voltage from the break out board to the VFD.......this 5 volt (10 volt?) voltage is the control that varies the 3 phase output of the VFD to the spindle.

I have a small 3/4 HP 3 phase motor that is driven by a VFD and it has a small voltage input to do just that.

In all the CNC routers on EBAY they state that if you want to have Mach 3 control the rpm you must disconnect the potentiometer that is used to manually vary the rpm or it will not work.

Somewhere on the diagram you posted of the breakout board and it's connections you should see the 5 or 10 volt output that does the rpm control.

Hope this works as I also will be going down this track eventually when I hook up my high speed spindle to my mill.
Ian.

[ericks]

Hi Tony, i had a quick look...
1) Your breakout board is fine to turn on your spindle and control the speed through mach3
2) When you program a vsd you must make sure that your motor data is correct.
3) You need to tell the vsd the source of start, keypad or external signal...in your case PN04 = 2 (that is your forward or reverse start signal) By closing the contact on eg FWD the drive will start the motor in a direction
4) You also need to tell the drive the freq reference point....either keypad or external ref...external ref can be 4-20ma or 0 - 10V etc...in your case its 0 - 10 V PN03 = 4

Now you must make sure you connect the outputs from your breakout board correctly to your vsd...
Your vsd wiring diagram clearly show you where to connect the start signal/contact and the speed ref 0-10V signal

If you need further assistance please let me know....

[TonyAy]

Hi Ericks Handlewanker and Stewey

Thank you for responding to my request especially to Ericks

I could only find one Grnd in VFD Control port 7 so my concern was where I find the 2nd ground or can I use port seven for both the 10a and the FWD ports from the breakout board

Next port17 on the breakout board I believe this needs to be connected by ensuring both pins are joined by the cover do I need a connection from port 17 to the vfd? I thought that simply ensuring the cap on the relay port 17 was all that was needed ?

thanks for your help I guess from my questions you realize I am truly a novice at this

[handlewanker]

Hi, aren't we all.....some of us......the earth point is purely a safety function and drains any leakage voltage to ......earth.....earth is earth, so all points that are earthed go to the same point.......ultimately the machine earth(s) goes to the 3 pin plug's earth and the wall socket.

With the plug out of the wall socket, use a multimeter on a resistance setting to test for earth continuity by touching one probe on the plug earth pin and the other probe on the machine frame and any where else you might get zapped on......if the meter doesn't show a low resistance reading somewhere you ain't go an earth at that point.
Ian.

[ericks]

Hi Ericks Handlewanker and Stewey

Thank you for responding to my request especially to Ericks

I could only find one Grnd in VFD Control port 7 so my concern was where I find the 2nd ground or can I use port seven for both the 10a and the FWD ports from the breakout board

Next port17 on the breakout board I believe this needs to be connected by ensuring both pins are joined by the cover do I need a connection from port 17 to the vfd? I thought that simply ensuring the cap on the relay port 17 was all that was needed ?

thanks for your help I guess from my questions you realize I am truly a novice at this

No worries....On the jumper P17 you need to put the jumper across both pins...that would make a "joint" and thus configuring the relay output. You need this relay output to start the spindle. Then connect the breakout and vsd like i showed you in the drawing i made for you. I am adding numbers so maybe that will make it better for you....else we should speak on the phone

[TonyAy]

hi Ericks

just clarifying the numbers on your drawing do they relate to the control port numbering system on page 11 (copy attached) the VFD calls control ports 8 (FWD) and 9 (REV) Similarly 7 is (GND) and 1 is (12 V out)

I was thinking that

for 1 on your sketch would be control port 8
for 7 the associated GND would be control port 7 ?
for 8 the control port 4
for 9 the control port ? ( can this port be 7 shared between and 4 control ports. 1 and 8 on your sketch)

appreciate the time you are tacking on this

regards tony

[ericks]

Tony....i did not see the page with the terminal numbers...got it now....i will send an edited pic/drawing

[ericks]

Your understanding was correct, and yes you can use the same gnd (7)

But dont use a gnd on these terminals to earth the motor...
There will either be a large gnd terminal/connection or stud for that use

[mactec54]

Hi all I am new to CNC routers and although I have managed to connect up to Mach 3 with the router and have Limit,and home switches wired up and soft limits working the VFD/Spindle is proving more than I can get my head around without some help (lots probably)

I have attached a copy of the breakout board I am using together with extracts from the VFD manual (some pages need to be rotated sorry.

Spindle and VFD are connected via a three pin plug (No Earth) the combination was purchased on Ebay. I wish to connect the VFD unit to the computer and control activity through Mach3.

The unit works fine via the control panel but trying to sort out which Control ports to connect to the breakout board and indeed which ports on the board to connect to so that control is through Mach3 are deleting already grey hair from my head.

My fault I thought I was ok buying the HY series however this is not the traditional version with 3 hot wires and 1 earth connecting VFD and spindle NO as i mentioned earlier just 3 hot wires. No earth and Control ports are reduced to one line of 16

suggestions would be appreciated

I'm afraid you have been lead up the garden path as far as your Ground wire goes, you must add a Ground wire from your VFD to your 3 Phase Spindle, it also needs to be a shielded Cable, your input power you will have your normal 230v connection ( 1 ) hot Neutral and Ground connected to the VFD, you will connect the Hot to the R terminal the Neutral to the T Terminal and the Ground to the Ground Terminal

The spindle connection you have to connect the U V W and Ground to the VFD Ground Terminal and then out to the spindle, your wiring without a Ground connected to the spindle, would be a Code violation, the Ground wire and the Shield must be connected at the Spindle and at the VFD, You either have to change the plug on the Spindle because you brought the wrong one, or Drill and tap a Ground mounting point on the spindle most do this

[mactec54]

Hi.......my 2 cents worth so if it's only worth that much disregard it.......as far as I know the VFD receives single phase 220 volts AC and put out 3 phase to the spindle..

To get the VFD to be RPM variable from the computer and controlled by Mach3 you need to feed a 5 volt (or 10 volt I think) voltage from the break out board to the VFD.......this 5 volt (10 volt?) voltage is the control that varies the 3 phase output of the VFD to the spindle.

Somewhere on the diagram you posted of the breakout board and it's connections you should see the 5 or 10 volt output that does the rpm control.
Ian.

Your 2 cents worth is a little short, that's not how it works at all

[TonyAy]

Hi Ericks

well thanks for your help I can now start and stop the spindle through Mach 3 thanks to you. Which frankly was all I was attempting now however I was wondering if it is possible to control the speed of the spindle in Mach3 and if you have any suggestions.

In any event if your ever near wellington SA your on for a beer just let me know

regards TonyAy

PS thank you everyone who showed an interest in my problem

[TonyAy]

Hi Ericks

I have just been reading through the threads and registered the comments about earthing the spindle. I propose to run an earth wire from the spindle case probably from the aluminum grip that holds the spindle to the z axis to the earth on the input side (single phase 240 volt supply) of the VFD do you see any issue with that as a solution. I am also wondering if EBAY should be notified that thse units do not meet code yes / no

anyway thanks very much for your help TonyAy

[ericks]

Hi Ericks

well thanks for your help I can now start and stop the spindle through Mach 3 thanks to you. Which frankly was all I was attempting now however I was wondering if it is possible to control the speed of the spindle in Mach3 and if you have any suggestions.

In any event if your ever near wellington SA your on for a beer just let me know

regards TonyAy

PS thank you everyone who showed an interest in my problem

Tony, i am very happy that you managed to sort it. Yes you should be able to control the speed through Mach3. I have not done this, i use a Kress router motor with a local speed control. Mach3 should be able to output a pwm signal, that signal should then be converted to a voltage output by your breakout board. It looks like your board has that function...
Earthing that spindle is very important....If there's not an earthing/bonding stud on your vsd then its fine to use the incoming earth like you indicated.

I will surely take you up on the offer...
If you ever in my area (Aldinga Beach) please drop by, i am sure we will have a lot to chat about....

[ericks]

Anyway, i will have a look at my mach3 and sort the pwm/vsd speed control. I am busy with my own build and i need to sort this for myself as well...meantime someone on here might be able to help you on the mach3 side....

[Gippy]

Hi Ericks

I have just been reading through the threads and registered the comments about earthing the spindle. I propose to run an earth wire from the spindle case probably from the aluminum grip that holds the spindle to the z axis to the earth on the input side (single phase 240 volt supply) of the VFD do you see any issue with that as a solution. I am also wondering if EBAY should be notified that thse units do not meet code yes / no

anyway thanks very much for your help TonyAy

It's hard to say if the drive is not up to standard re-the earthing. ( i can pretty much guarantee it won't meet most of the other standards). There is no reg that says the motor has to earthed at the drive, It just has to be earthed at the control panel / termination point. The drive does need to be earthed as well obviously (unless its all plastic ). <---- edit, actually they all probably do, emi shielding and all that.

[ericks]

Hi Tony....have you had any success with the speed control through Mach3?

[TonyAy]

Hi Ericks

Yes I have had some success I have had to change the wiring between the breakeout board and the VDF as I could only switch the spindle on i could not control the speed. I connected the fwd and GRND
on the VFD and the 0-10V and GRND from the breakout board to the 10vin and GRND respectively on the VFD. My Mach 3 leaves a bit to be desired

I can part of the time get the spindle to work and control the speed by setting the speed to not less than 3000 using the spindle control found using ALT 1 or 2 I have so far been unable to determin why it works only some times and has to be reset each time Mach3 is started

However making the minimum speed on the Pulley 3000 results in good control over all aspects of the spindle I worry that this is an option unmentioned in any manual or youtube video any comment?

[ericks]

Hi Ericks

Yes I have had some success I have had to change the wiring between the breakeout board and the VDF as I could only switch the spindle on i could not control the speed. I connected the fwd and GRND
on the VFD and the 0-10V and GRND from the breakout board to the 10vin and GRND respectively on the VFD. My Mach 3 leaves a bit to be desired

I can part of the time get the spindle to work and control the speed by setting the speed to not less than 3000 using the spindle control found using ALT 1 or 2 I have so far been unable to determin why it works only some times and has to be reset each time Mach3 is started

However making the minimum speed on the Pulley 3000 results in good control over all aspects of the spindle I worry that this is an option unmentioned in any manual or youtube video any comment?

Good work! I actually ordered a couple of the same breakout boards....they look reasonable for the price