How much does an average machinist make? - Page 16


View Poll Results: How much do you make an hour (CNC only, no manual machinists)

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Thread: How much does an average machinist make?

  1. #301
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    I think the wage spiral is going the wrong way......by rights we should be devaluing the OZ dollar.....that would mean every dollar that came into the country would be worth more.......that would also curb offshore spending......at the same time the wages would still buy goods at the same price, but foreign travel would be hit hard, which is where you want it to happen.

    The tourists who flock to this country would be swimming in OZ dollars at the new exchange rate and that is just what the retail sector needs.........meanwhile a loaf of bread will still cost the local populace a dollar as it was before.

    I have to wonder who sets the value of a currency when by rights the lowest value you can have would be the highest benefit.

    As a country that is not a manufacturing giant, the low dollar value would mean we get more for our miniscule export trade while curbing the import unbalance that the people themselves have created.

    The money for skilled workers would still be paid to them according to their skill levels and as small is beautiful the small producers can thrive just supplying the local markets without the need to export.

    Exporting takes on a new meaning and value when it's interstate and not international, and an OZ dollar at parity means we all profit, not a foreign country.
    Ian.
    Hahaha. The Aust dollar was floated in the 80s by Keating. Back in those days Keating talked about globalisation, a level playing field, and Australia taking it's place in the world. Some embraced this and others in typical Aussie fashion didn't even know what he was talking about. What he was talking about was what we have today and why what you describe can NEVER happen.

    Australia had it's chance to be an independent, isolated, protected country. Instead it exposed itself and became a dependant, meaningless, me too, country. The wonderful George Carlin said it best, when he said politicians don't suck, it's the public that suck.



    The people of Australia voted for Hawk and Keating, and what we have today is exactly what they asked for.



  2. #302
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Well, it may be just a buzz word for some, but they don't call OZ The Lucky Country for nothing.

    As the World rotates continuously and things change.....continuously.......nothing will be as it was 20 years ago.....50 years ago or a couple of centuries ago......you have to go with the flow and if you are wise and clever you roll with the punches and come up smelling of roses........my philosophy always.

    In no way can OZ consider itself a World initiator of anything that the rest of the World has already done and learned the hard way not to do it that way again.

    I have to think that if you compare OZ to the States or UK or France and Germany to say a few, you will find that they have more problems than a barrel of monkeys going downhill.

    About 3 years back the OZ dollar was at parity with the US dollar......where did that get us.....all foreign imports were cheaper so we bought foreign made goods.....the problem was the exports fell off because the small export trade cost to a foreign country was relatively high and no one wanted to come as tourists to a country that converted their money to less than before.

    If the OZ dollar fell to 50% US$.....that, for a small trading country like us, would be a blessing in disguise as all our small time exports would be cost effective to any country that wanted them and that means the export trade would take off.

    The other side of the coin is that we don't need to import to make things as we're not a converter country per se like UK or Japan etc.....we have plenty of raw materials that will last for hundreds of years to come, and with the boom in sustainable energy putting the power stations out that is another asset to the pile.

    Until the Government taxes all solar power panel output like they do with cars, the energy from solar especially roof top ones will put the sustainable factor in the hands of those who invest in it and not the Government.

    I think you can look at any sustainable energy production from domestic sources as an income and so taxable eventually.

    The Government is quite capable of passing a law to create a new tax for solar panel output once the energy production from coal falls off so far it's won't be viable and only as an export commodity.

    It's a fact that the rain that falls from the sky is free and gets collected in dams to be supplied to households and then charged to them by the mega litre.......the sunlight that falls on solar panels is also free but for how long?

    The people as a group will not be able to prevent the Government from taxing the solar output as it's a plum ripe for the picking, and would be considered as the needs of the many exceed the needs of the few etc.......is this the brave new world they speak of?

    I get the distinct feeling that the rebate that people with solar panels get is a Sprat to catch the Mackerel and will soon be taxed as all else is taxed.

    BTW, this is comparable to a machinist's wages that are hard earned but are taxed by the Government.....the more you earn the more tax you pay.
    Ian.



  3. #303
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Well, it may be just a buzz word for some, but they don't call OZ The Lucky Country for nothing.
    Australia is called the lucky country because it has always been a land of opportunity that brings fortune to those that are lucky. But what does that mean?

    Several years ago before we sold the farm I watched a program on how German farmers were moving away from traditional farming towards solar farming. What a great idea I told the wife... let's do it! So we hopped on a plane and went to China where we negotiated a 120 kVA solar power plant for $250K delivered in Australia. With a strong business case, the local council warmly embrace the idea; but the state & federal government did not. To begin with the federal government have created authorised solar installers and only these installers can install solar equipment. You could install the power plant yourself using an electrician, but then it would be totally illegal to connect this or to on sell any power from it. At the time I could not find one single government certified installer who would install a solar plant without me buying all the equipment through them. The cheapest quote I had for the same size plant supplied locally was $1.5 million. Becoming a registered power generator and connecting to the grid was just another nightmare that soon spiralled beyond my comprehension, understanding or depth.

    But my point is, for the lucky such as the limited licence certified installers who were savvy enough to get there first and enjoy a captive market, Australia for them is a very lucky country and life is good. For the rest, not so good.



  4. #304
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Sigh.......you were thinking primarily of a solar power plant for a farming use.....now you say you wanted to supply the neighbourhood with cheap power and connect to the grid........what was your actual plan initially?

    When you set yourself up as an importer you are in competition with those that do it for a living.....little wonder they closed ranks and tried to shut you out of their closed circle.

    When you belong to a club.......OZ is a club........you have to go through the motions of supporting those that are club members....importers, wholesalers and retailers.......you are not an importer or installer or electrician so those that are feel miffed when you tread on their toes......you are taking the bread out of their commercial mouths etc.

    If you purely bought the solar installation into OZ for your own use and paid the import duty, port fees etc etc, then set it up with a local lecky to connect to your own equipment.......nobody can stop you as you aren't interfering with the status quo that exists with the manufacturing and service industry forum......but don't even think about Grid connecting unless you have the full authority of the Gov beforehand.

    In your infinite wisdom you tried to sidestep the system and got hit by the big boys.

    I could have paid $20K for a milling machine already in the country and in a showroom near me, but I chose to go the self import path from a supplier in China and paid the import duties, port fees and brokerage that added $2k to the total bill and topped out at $10k in the end......but I did not intend to import the machine in order to set up a backyard sell on enterprise.

    There is a control factor here, and it means you should support the system or pay the price by attempting to become a Jack of all trades to save a few bob......your local council is not responsible for the National grid so cannot give you support on that matter......they "could" have been better informed and advised you as to what was the procedure for your advanced aspirations.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Sigh.......you were thinking primarily of a solar power plant for a farming use.....
    Hahaha... and this thread just goes on... and on...

    No I was not thinking primarily of a solar power plant for a farming use at all. I was thinking a "solar farm" just like many have now done in Germany and didn't sidestep anything. They have sold all the cows, tractors, and sheep and replaces fields with solar panels. I never had any business plan or had any desire to power the farm or be an importer. I had land to put panels, a major power line not far away and the sun shining. This was a commercial based enterprise to be a power generator providing clean and renewable energy to Australian people.

    More than happy to comply with whatever was needed, but yes I got hit in the face by regulations, rules, process, and the "oz club" who already have a captive market. All these things plus lawyers make any new business case impossible in this country. Why do you think it will be a long time before Australia sees the back of coal? Well maybe its because several people of power are already making unbelievably large amounts of money from it, and will continue to do so. If this is the sort of richy rich club you are proud of and you want here, then you are doing the people of this country a disservice. How did this place come to a state were the public owned resource is dug up and burnt, and then the public are double fingered by being charge for the electricity that is produced from that resource? Meanwhile several people involved in doing this have accumulated wealth beyond comprehension...

    But anyway, back to the point I was trying to make. It's not about sidestepping anything, it's about creating an environment where the common person wants to invest in enterprises that create wealth, security, and employment. This is why no one in there right mind will invest in machining in Australia. When a company sets up in China (as opposed to Australia) they are not just buying cheap labor, they are investing in an environment that is not guarded by the few, not over regulated to the hilt, not dictated to by the workers, and not locked out by the establishment. Which btw are all the same challenges that face Trump.



  6. #306
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Now I see what you mean...........you want to become a power station all on your own........wow that would raise the hackles on the "club" .......someone who wants to climb out of the bucket etc.

    Have you considered actually having such a facility as a stand alone unit off the grid and using it in an enterprise where cheap power can be utilised instead of adding to the grid?........how can the Gov tax that?

    I'm thinking of anything that needs power in bundles.....like scrap metal recovery, metal plating or incinerating......that is one area that is a growing concern with land fill becoming a huge problem for the municipalities.

    You can make charcoal too.......OZ has tons of hardwood trees just lying around rotting away and that is one thing that people like for BBQ's but don't like the commercial price.

    It wouldn't cost a heap to set up an incinerator, and it won't go out of fashion once it's operational and you would have the councils flocking to your door to burn their waste, especially the toxic hospital stuff that cost to get rid of......just thinking......where there's muck there's brass....LOL

    I think there's still a place for machining in OZ, but not for a large scale manufacturing one with export in mind......and we don't have enough population to supply to the retail trade against the China Imports.

    True, there are small business enterprises supplying goods for the local and interstate trade, but as a country that is just a drop in the ocean.....we are not a manufacturing nation by any stretch of the imagination......made in OZ is not something you see on the shop shelves.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    I'll tell you a few things about solar power you aren't going to like mate. Dust is the death of output. Unless you are prepared to grow grass or the like everywhere within a 2 Klm radius, every time you drive a tractor or 4x4 and the wind direction settles the dust you create in the solar panels, your output drops off. Even just one panel of an array dropping out and it drags down your expected output.

    The $4000 'systems' being sold for domestic use (panels on the roof) will barely run a refrigerator. Even if you do manage to get enough panels hooked up to actually power a normal house, enough batteries to store power for nighttime and overcast days will set you back close to $12k. I'd suggest you ditch solar panels and use wind mills. You'll still need batteries for when there's no wind. I friend of mine outside Kalgoorlie (West Australia) has generators driven by home made wind mills. He doesn't use batteries after damaging a few. Instead he has a diesel generator that auto starts (if its having a reliable day) when power drops below his set limit.

    The guy is a retired electrical engineer and born fiddler. He gets by fixing things for local mines. His solar panels are stacked in his shed. Ask him about them and he has one word for them JUNK! He still needs to use his diesel generator whenever he wants to machine anything. All those you beaut deals advertised to sell you Solar panels are never going to get you off the grid. Spend $15,000 and you might halve your power bill ... The first month! Then you discover the cost of keeping the panels clean. Solar for the individual is 99% dreams mate!



  8. #308
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    For an odd case that might be right, but a mate I worked with and is now retired on the Gold Coast had a large array on his roof top and he hardly had any power bills.

    The main worry is with the increasing amount of solar generation coming on line, the cost of the coal generated stuff is now becoming more expensive........it's the same as any supply and demand situation....the less demand the more expensive the production

    I don't think I'll live long enough to see the last coal burner go phut, but it will happen sooner than later.

    Solar is neat and clean, and getting better....what started out as a dream by some is now a reality by many.

    BTW....if dust is a problem all you need is a flushing system that flushes a stream of water down the panel and gets recirculated........that's not a rocket science solution.......rain will do the same.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    For an odd case that might be right, but a mate I worked with and is now retired on the Gold Coast had a large array on his roof top and he hardly had any power bills.

    BTW....if dust is a problem all you need is a flushing system that flushes a stream of water down the panel and gets recirculated........that's not a rocket science solution.......rain will do the same.
    Ian.
    I guess "Gold Coast" says it all. Water, massive humidity regular rain. There is no natural water source (except for cyanide polluted ground water) in Kalgoorlie. That's why there is a bloody great pipeline supplying water from down south. Dust is a way of life in that part of the country. Your mate obviously doesn't store electricity in batteries if he's still getting power bills. I was replying to an OP suggesting 'off-grid' use. At one time we were all off the grid and had to pedal like crazy to generate enough power to communicate by radio. I can still remember my formative years getting exhausted from pedaling while taking lessons from School of the air.

    Sure is a lucky country



  10. #310
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hi....I was referring to the time he was in Victoria working.......now he's on the Gold Coast retired.........I don't think the Condo he bought into has solar power.....whatever

    Formative years?....my formative years consisted of having to switch the radio on and off manually as remote controls hadn't been invented yet.....real hardship times.

    BTW, nobody with solar panels down our street complains about their electric bills or having to constantly clean them, but then we do get quite a bit of rain in Winter......can't think what Kalgoorlie and the Gold Coast have in common.
    Ian.

    Last edited by handlewanker; 07-26-2017 at 08:01 AM.


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    Just a quick note, 2018 job market a workshop fitter should get 28 to 30, a breakdown fitter in a major city can expect far more. The trend is mostly maintenance now, some machining is getting hard to find, say for instance you specialise in wire cutting or cylindrical grinding, maybe only a few chances a year pop up.

    The poll figures are really outdated and a new poll should be run.

    Wisdom results from foolishness!


  12. #312
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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Well the fitting trade must be a dying one or at least nobody is going into it as an occupation......couple of guys I hung out with couldn't get a fitter to service their needs for the love of money......one guy they hired by the hour charged $150 an hour......only when he had the time or was back in the country.



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    You can thank a guy named Joe Hockey for that, the support industry for the car companies used to train at least 100 fitters a year in the 90's and 2000's.
    As you are well aware Ian, we lost all of that in Australia.

    Look at the United Kingdom for our future, high tech small workshops.

    Wisdom results from foolishness!


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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    Well the fitting trade must be a dying one or at least nobody is going into it as an occupation......couple of guys I hung out with couldn't get a fitter to service their needs for the love of money......one guy they hired by the hour charged $150 an hour......only when he had the time or was back in the country.
    I'm not a qualified fitter but am employed in a maintenance fitter role in a multi-million dollar company. I was extremely happy to get this position.

    I started full of enthusiasm but now if I could get something better (not easy when you don't have the paper) I'd leave in a heartbeat. Here in Australia, there seems so much bullcrap and stupidity which stifles doing a job properly. People with degrees implementing ridiculous systems for "record keeping" and "proof" of productivity.

    The plant I work at is massive with a huge variety of equipment. They get a new fitter in, give no training, yet expect "productiveness" for the duration of the shift. This "productiveness" must be proven by the fitter entering in software, what they did. and when they did it each day. We're on call with a radio the entire shift and are often running around like mad men trying to keep up answering all the calls. Plus we have to do a list of outstanding jobs when we come on shift. Plus we get a bunch of maintenance jobs thrown at us. When we don't get the maintenance jobs done because we were flat out doing all the other stuff, we get interrogated. The smart but lazy guys do well in this company, they know how to work the system and "pass jobs on". Then they get their preventive maintenance jobs done. The ones who work their ass off and try and get all the outstanding jobs done, don't get their PMs done, then get into trouble. There's no real supervision where all the guys are watched / monitored.

    Regarding this computer logging to prove our "productiveness" I asked about logging time for learning / studying all this equipment. When a plant is shutdown on $50K / hr that is not the time to learn how something works. Common sense would say you learn it beforehand so that you know how to fix it when it stuffs up, but no, studying is not classed as productiveness. So now all I think is how to justify my existence in the computer software, instead of focusing on how to learn the gear and become a good fitter.

    When I did my apprenticeship back in the UK things were more practical. When I worked at new companies they trained you. I even did a whole 1 week course on air conditioning and refrigeration. Now maintenance departments are controlled by degree holding pen pushers who think they can make everything work with some software, and maintenance staff are treated more like a liability than an asset. We're supposed to be there for maintenance, repair, and emergency breakdown, yet we're treated more like a production machine.

    Heck, we haven't even got a small lathe and mill (no doubt an expense, rather than an asset), and are often trying to scrounge parts for pressing bearings, etc. I got so frustrated I even machined up a bunch of tools on my lathe at home and took them to work. I also carry my own tools in each day because of lack of tooling at work.

    Don't know if other companies run like this, but if they do, who want's to go into this trade.



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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Hmmmm…...pedantic nit pickers who like keeping records are a pain in the rump...…..luckily this wasn't a scenario in my day, but then again the machinery we were working on (30 years ago) was a lot different to today's stuff.

    If I was starting over today this would be the last trade to think about for an occupation......I laugh when I hear the word fitter as now all they are are service handy men.....bolt on mechanics....six months experience and their highly qualified.

    It would be very true to say that if you remove and fit the same parts enough times you can be an expert.....just don't change the specification.

    It's also very true that if a component fails on a device then it's quicker and cheaper to replace it than repair it, so who needs someone who can repair it when all you want is to get the damn thing working again.

    Service men are worth their weight in gold when it comes to getting something back on stream again quickly and knowing what to do.

    If a service man was my destiny I'd rather drive a truck.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: How much does an average machinist make?

    Good one



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