CNC Ethernet Controller Recommendations


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    Default CNC Ethernet Controller Recommendations

    Hi,

    I'm new to the forum, and am planning a couple of cnc projects - Does anyone have any recommendations for CNC Ethernet controllers ?

    I'm prepared to consider other controllers, however would prefer not to have to rely on a dedicated pc and parralell port.

    Cheers,
    Brad.

    Similar Threads:


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    Ethernet Smoothstepper from Warp 9.



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    I'll second that. My Ethernet Smoothstepper has performed like a champ. Never a bit of trouble, once configured. The documentation is a bit spotty, but the forum has enough depth to get most questions sorted, and the installed base is constantly growing. It's good hardware.

    Luke

    "All I'm trying to find out is the fellow's name on first base" -- Lou Costello


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    Thanks for the replies,

    The Smoothstepper seems quite well respected.

    From a discuss point of view - Does anyone have any experience with any other controllers ?
    e.g. myCNC from bevelcutting.com, or the CSMIO/IP-S controllers from CS Lab Electronics ?



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    I have used all 3 of the CSMIO controllers.
    IP-M on a small linear stage I built for a company that makes optics.
    IP-S on a small lathe for myself.
    IP-A on a Chiron FZ12S VMC.

    They are all excellent controllers but of the 3 the IP-A is my choice, it however requires you to have analogue control servo drives/amps.
    The cost of the IP-S and IP-A and even IP-M looks quite expensive at first but then when you start to look into it the price starts to look very competitive. For example you do not need a separate spindle control board or separate breakout boards, I/O is 24v so it is in keeping with what Industry has been using for many years and thus is more robust and noise resistant than 5v. Also step/dir signals on IP-S and M are differential so extremely noise resistant and in keeping with industry standards for Step/Dir. The IP-A obviously does not have/need this as it uses +/- 10v instead of Step/Dir.

    I have the SmoothStepper on one mill and the Ethernet SS on a big lathe and they are great devices that work well but as I wanted to adhere to the industrial practice of 24v I/O that required that I made up boards/circuits to convert to and from 5v and 24v, I also had to make up line drivers to convert to differential Step/Dir signals. With the CSMIO/IP controllers all that is not needed as they already do them .
    Lathe threading on the CSMIO is good but not perfect, it uses full encoder input and you can slow (even stop) the spindle mid thread and then start again and it will track precisely but the problem is the pullout is slow at the end of the thread and it leaves an annular groove. This is really a Mach3 issue due to the way it passes info to the controller but Brian (Artsoft) is working on this at the moment in conjunction with Andrew from CS-Lab and myself doing testing, so hopefully soon it will be sorted. If it is then I will almost certainly be getting a CSMIO-IP-A for my big lathe to replace the ESS. The servos I have on the big lathe can accept either Step/Dir or analogue and thus that is why I will be able to use the IP-A, if however they were not capable of +/- 10v then I still would have used a CSMIO, just the IP-S rather than the IP-A.

    The reason I like the IP-A the best is it updates Mach from the encoder position so Mach always knows exactly where it is even in E-Stop etc. Even if my servo drives are disabled, as long as I keep the encoder logic alive I can then manually move an axis and watch the position get updated to Mach.

    Oh another nice thing about the CSMIO/IP-A and IP-S is rigid tapping. Here is a video of me testing the rigid tapping on the Chiron, also you will see other videos of me doing various different tests such as peck tapping, slowing spindle accel way down to test depth control etc, you will find them here https://www.youtube.com/user/HoodScotland
    Hood







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    BTW the video above is not showing correctly in the thread, only half of the width is viewable, tink it must be due to the adds that are displayed here on the zone, might be better to watch the video on youtube itself to see it correctly.
    Hood

    Edit, now it is showing correctly as the add has changed after a refresh



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    Gooday,
    If you are in Australia and I assume you are the SmoothStepper is available in Melbourne from a Technition that works from home but sells by either mail order or will allow pick-up if he is called first.
    Peter is a registered Re-Seller for all the SmoothSteppers from the US.
    I purchased mine from Peter and he is very knowledgeable on all things CNC.
    When I purchased mine the Ethernet version was about $189 AU however due to my failing health I have been unable to install it yet as my CNC is not finished (but mine is not for sale)
    If you are interested I will look up his contact details for you.
    I would say to PM me but I am not sure how it works so I will keep an eye on this thread for a day or two

    Seeya
    Roger



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    Hi Roger,

    I second that.

    Yes, I stock both the USB and the Ethernet SmoothStepper. The ESS is a little more expensive than the USB one, but in my opinion, Ethernet is the way to go is Ethernet is more robust (Less susceptible to noise) than USB.
    The ESS also has the equivalent of three parallel ports, whereas the USB version only has two.

    SS-02 Ethernet SmoothStepper [SS-02]
    SS-01 USB SmoothStepper [SS-01]



    Here is a project that I used the ESS to convert a soldering robot over to Mach3
    Selective Soldering Robot Conversion to Mach3 and Smooth Stepper (Part 1)
    Selective Soldering Robot Conversion to Mach3 and Smooth Stepper (Part 2)
    Selective Soldering Robot Conversion to Mach3 and Smooth Stepper (Part 3)

    Cheers,

    Peter

    -------------------------------------------------
    Homann Designs - http://www.homanndesigns.com


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    Hi Roger and Peter,

    Thanks for the tips - I've nearly met Peter
    (As I live in South East Melbourne, I picked up a few parts for testing with the controller.)

    In the end I purchased the CSMIO-IPS controller, probably overkill for my needs, however it ticked the "Ethernet" box and handles the motion controller (I assume PWM signal generation) saving me from running up a Windows XP workstation specifically for the controller - something else I'd rather not do.

    The Gecko Driver and Stepper Motor from Peter have behaved very well in bench testing, even if I did take a bit of stretching the grey matter to figure out a things like differential to single ended signalling, etc. (It has been far too long since the electronics at Uni has been used in day to day life). The Team at CS-Lab have responded to the queries that I've had so far and been helpful.

    The next steps are to finalise the details of the frame and gantry for the 4 axis CNC router (planned 600 x 1200 / 2' x 4'). Rack and pinion gearing for the x/y axis are a current sticking point - TEA is a local supplier that is on my contact list. Once I get this finalised, I need to decided whether or not I'm better off to "build my own" or to "buy a kit" from the US (e.g. CNC Router Parts) - (Welding a frame that needs to be "straight", milling brackets, etc are little beyond either my capabilities and that of my home workshop.)

    Cheers,
    Brad.



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    Hi Brad,

    You must have lots of money and purchase items without researching properly first, sorry but that's what it looks like to me. You were obviously very impressed with the CSMIO-IPS controller but in my opinion you may have spent more money than you needed to get the needed results. You mentioned that what you bought was because it had a motion controller and you didn't want to rely on a PC. How do you think a SmoothStepper works on a LAN if it needs a PC to generate pulses. A SmoothStepper, both USB and Ethernet has a built in Motion Controller and for the research I have done is an excellent product at a reasonable price, otherwise I would not have bought one for myself.

    Do you want some help/advise for the rest of your venture, like for instance for the size of the CNC frame you have talked about in your reply, you will probably also waste money using steel and Rack & Pinion for your X/Y when there are better options.

    Hey, I am only in Dandenong, so why don't you come and have a look at my un-finished CNC Router, I may not be able to work on it, but as yet I am not a total invalid. It has a steel frame, and Rack & Pinion on the long Axis but that is because it is about 3.5 Metres long.

    It will give you a chance to see some of the drawbacks to using rack & pinion as against other methods such as Ball Screw as the machine has ball screws on the other Axis.

    Also you will be far better building your own as against getting a kit because there are very few if any CNC kit suppliers in Australia except those that import kits from China and often don't know any more than you.
    I have been there & done that with the exception that I didn't buy anything.

    Put more trust in CNCZone and its members from Australia & you will find that you will get more help and better advise (like from Peter) and many others, they are mainly in QLD but there are a few in VIC.

    That’s it, sorry for the long post, but I got carried away, if you want to accept my offer send me a PM and I will send you my contact details.
    I am here most of the time (not working as I am getting a bit past it, not in age) If you do take up my offer, Don't BUY Anything until after you know more

    Seeya
    Roger



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    Hi Roger,

    More than happy to take onboard advice from those who have experience

    Lets just say that I did a lot of looking - While SmoothStepper's manual says its a Motion Controller - Mach3's Website doesn't list it as such.
    I'm not saying SmoothStepper isn't a motion controller - however I had the confidence from multiple sources that I didn't need an extra PC - while a "basic PC" isn't expensive it does even out some of the cost difference.

    If I were going to go down the kit angle, it would be a US kit from someone like CNC Router Parts - Given the cost of shipping from the US and the cost difference between Steel and Aluminium, I was certainly hoping that a self built machine would work out better / cheaper or both.

    Cheers,
    Brad.



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    Hi!

    It seems you have already made your selection but I still wanted to tell about ours.
    Over five years ago we were one of the very first to use Vital Systems dspMC/IP controller in our fiber laser cutting system. Until now we have collected over 3000 cutting hours with the unit and I still have only good things to say about it. This is for analog +- 10V servo signal.

    Just few weeks ago I started testing their HiCON controller that has pulse/dir control for 6 axises up to 2 MHz with the possibility to use closed loop too. We have started our conversion of one 2spindle engraver using this and Yaskawa servos. Integration with this is very easy as all opto isolations and even 5 relays are on the same board with screw terminals.

    Please have a look what you missed :-)

    Arto



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    +1 on Vital systems.

    Mike

    Warning: DIY CNC may cause extreme hair loss due to you pulling your hair out.


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    Member Hood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarnold View Post
    Hi Brad,

    You must have lots of money and purchase items without researching properly first, sorry but that's what it looks like to me. You were obviously very impressed with the CSMIO-IPS controller but in my opinion you may have spent more money than you needed to get the needed results.
    That may depend on what he wants/needs. For me Differential Step/Dir was always a must so I had to make up drivers to do that. Also 24v I/O was also a must as it is extremelyy noise resistant and is the reason almost every industrial CNC will use 24v DC rather than 5v. that meant I had to make up converters. There is also no need for breakout boards, so again if using a lot of I/O that could make a big difference in cost. Spindle control again is onboard in the form of analogue outputs so no need for separate controller and then you have analogue inputs for such things as feed and spindle override pots again saving the expense of extra hardware such as PLC or Pokeys or whatever to get the analogue inputs to Mach.

    Possibly none of that is needed or required and possibly the IP-M would have been a better choice and thus extra was spent but that will all depend on the requirements of the end user.

    Now dont get me wrong, the ESS is an excellent board, if single ended Step/Dir and 5v I/O will suffice and you dont need too much I/O (so no need for the extra expense of breakouts) and dont want to have to pay for things you will not need then it may be the way to go, however if like me you wanted all these things then when you add all the extras required for adding to the ESS then its not so much more expensive, even the IP-S or IP-A and certainly not the IP-M, it likely works out a lot cheaper.

    As has been mentioned the ESS/USBSS are classed as a motion controllers as well, in fact any external device used for controlling the axes via Mach is a motion controller. Even the parallel port in conjunction with the Mach driver is a motion controller, its just internal and the original motion controller for Mach.

    The devices from Vital Systems also get a good name, never used them myself however so cant talk from personal experience.

    There are also USB controllers such as Kflop and PoKeys and various others, some of which may be best avoided from what I have seen, I am meaning some of the ones coming in from China. Now before anyone says they have one and its great, I am not saying all are bad and in fact most I have heard about seem decent, the problem however seems to be support and that is important, especially with the up and coming release of Mach4 as new plugins will need to be written if they are to be used with Mach4.

    There is even a PCI controller, the Centipede, again gets a good name from the users but again I have never used one, almost bought one but it just didnt tick all the boxes I required.

    So in the end it may have been an expensive choice or it may have actually have been a cheaper option, all depends on the end users requirements and needs.

    Hood

    EDIT
    Almost forgot there is even an Ethernet Pokeys.



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    You guys that are soi impressed with teh ESS, how about when you hit cycle stop or sometimes even hit cycle stop 2 seconds after hitting pause. YOu don't get a communication error and then have to shut down all teh logic power to reset everything? I do. I also have that tick checked where it says on the plugin for teh ESS to control the cycle stop or was that pause.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns tool room View Post
    You guys that are soi impressed with teh ESS, how about when you hit cycle stop or sometimes even hit cycle stop 2 seconds after hitting pause. YOu don't get a communication error and then have to shut down all teh logic power to reset everything? I do. I also have that tick checked where it says on the plugin for teh ESS to control the cycle stop or was that pause.
    I have a USB SS and they are VERY susceptible to noise and will dump communication quite easily. If you have it mounted in a way that it is protected from electrical noise, you will have much less of a headache.



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    Problem I mentioned is with eth ethernet smooth stepper that is not even susceptible with noise. It has to do with the fact that the SS sending info packets that command moves is not in time with a pause or Cycle stop command and you get comm failure. Its beyond rediculous for someone to design something and consider that acceptable. Then again poor instructions is not that great either and again not disclosing the fault I mentioned in the prev sentance to perspective customers is kinda criminal. Other than that ESS is OK.



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    I certainly have never seen that issue that you talk about with the ESS, in fact I cant ever recall seeing it with the USB one either. Maybe I have just been lucky but I have never had issues with noise either, then again that may be due to my wiring practices, all 24V except fro Step/Dir and they are differential.
    I do have issues with the SS/ESS but its not anything like that, they are niggles that should be fixed but are unlikely to be. The ESS cleared up all of the issues for me with the exception of the Step/Dir spindle problem where the pulses will randomly be dropped for a split second. I hardly notice this on the mill as the spindle doesnt have much weight to it bit on the lathe the 10inch chuck has a fair amount of momentum and it gives a loud bang when it happens. It doesnt happen nearly so often now now and I think that is because I disabled Spindle Override. One thing however is the USB SS used to suffer from a problem where if you did a feedhold then a stop the spindle would be stopped without deceleration. Greg fixed that in the USB SS but it got reintroduced in the ESS.
    These things may have been addressed in later versions of the plugin, unlikely though as I waited patiently for 3 or more years for the spindle issue to be fixed and it never was. I have stuck with the original ESS plugin as any newer ones I tried in the beginning had problems, so maybe what you are seeing is one of them, maybe try the original ESS plugin and see how that performs.
    I have moved on from SS/ESS now on any new builds, I have been using the CS-Lab products as they are much more in line with what I look for and issues seem to be resolved quickly if found and reported. I still have the ESS on the big lathe as threading is not the best with the CSMIO as it uses full encoder instead of just a single pulse. Well actually I should say the threading is excellent but the pullout at the end is slow. That is, it seems, a Mach issue and it seems it will be Mach4 before it is sorted, when/if that happens then my lathe will get a CSMIO/IP-A.
    The mill I have the USB SS on will likely stay that way as I hardly ever use it and really it is just there as a back up machine in case I have a breakdown with the Chiron, I may however take the CSMIO/IP-S off the wee lathe in the future and fit it to the Beaver Mill.

    Hood



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    Hood, you never had a problem hitting cycle stop in teh middle of a program on teh machine with the SS on it? I certainly do. after doing that, I have to shut everything down power it off wait a few secs and then power it back up.



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    Are you hitting stop when the code is running or have you done a feedhold first?
    Hood



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