I dont know how well this works but I cant see why it wouldnt, and it opens up the scope for doing other work as well.

I must say the $300 bucks is a bit steep considering what it is.
I would love to see someone on here make and sell the fittings for a reasonable price.
Also I dont know why it needs to be so long considering that professional vinyl cutters are a lot shorter.
Just out of interest, i didnt know until recently that vinyl cutter blades where static and didnt spin to do the cut. It is the mere movement of your machine and the dragging action that does the cutting. The blade is slightly offest so that it turns to the direction it is cutting. ( Well I didnt know this anyway) Essentially there is no noise generated from the cutting tip, just the noise of your table. (Nice thought to be able to cut without annoying the neighbours) :)

http://www.littleeholdings.com

http://www.littleeholdings.com/coloredtiger/pic1.jpg

"$300 bucks is a bit steep considering what it is" Yes, it appears to be simply a body with rotating adjustable spring, 2 x bearings (probably not even thrust bearings) and the trailing blade mechanism.
"Also I dont know why it needs to be so long considering that professional vinyl cutters are a lot shorter." Because of the spring inside. My ESAB router came with a vinyl cutting knife but the removable holder for the knife (or pen) assembly was located just next to the spindle with about a 100mm (4") offset from the router/spindle centreline. When doing vinyl you just temporarily reset the X/Y grid zero position as required and away you went. In order to avoid 90deg corners being cut with a slight radius due to the trailing blade (not an issue on big signs) the cut program (e.g. Mach2/3, etc.) needs to go past the corner by the amount of the blade offset (I'll use 2mm as an example) and then do a 2mm radius arc so that blade will cut a perfect 90degree corner and carry on in the direction of the next line.
"i didnt know until recently that vinyl cutter blades were static and didn't spin to do the cut." I've mainly used the more expensive flat bed type of vinyl cutter (Wild/Leica, Zund, etc.) and they all use a "Theta" axis which is the fourth axis attached to the Z axis which turns (by the Theta rotational motor) according to direction of cut required (also used in "pick & place machines). Correct me if I'm wrong but the cheaper see-saw roller type (Roland, etc.) vinyl cutters also use Theta axis control or at least the last ones I used did. (I'm curious as to how Spanish speakers from Spain define the difference between what we call the Z axis and the Theta axis because the letter "Z" is pronounced by us as "zed" or "zee" and in Spanish (in Spain not South America) is pronounced as "theta".) (All my dealings with cnc are in English hence the question) EDIT: now that I think about it the "th" combination doesn't exist in Spanish so maybe they have another name for it altogether.
Skippy

Mach2/3 does include tangential control for knife control,,,,, I had assumed it used a stepper to control the angle/direction of the knife as it cuts??

G's blade holders are around 50 bucks from roland . Make a adapter ,simple enough
Here's a place (http://www.signmakingsupplies.com/ezStore123/DTProductList.asp?p=2_1_1_0_0_0_11)
For alot less.

But then again I got mine with my plotter. :cool:


Dave

That looks to be a Roland blade holder installed in an aluminum housing. ( I have 2 roland plotters ) My guess is the housing is made larger so as to make it easier to adapt to a cnc table/router mount. The vinyl plotters don't really use an Z axis just an electro magnetic coil to hold the blade holder. Just on or off with a adjustment for knife pressure/ more voltage to the coil.

(A) After some looking around on the web last night I found that my statement "Correct me if I'm wrong but the cheaper see-saw roller type (Roland, etc.) vinyl cutters also use Theta axis control" was incorrect. I see that most if not all roller type (Roland, etc.) vinyl cutters use trailing blade.

(B) Here's another homemade vinyl cutter attachment link:

http://cuttingedgecnc.com/vinyl.htm

As far as I know, even if the blade can only be up or down it would still be referred to as the Z axis.

My ESAB router (3m x 2m working area) is the same as your vinyl cutter. It's either up or down (mine uses a pneumatic cylinder) even though I plan to convert in the near future to full Z axis control. Even though it can only be up or down, I've always refered to that movement being Z axis even though it's not microcontrolable as that is the direction of the movement. Maybe I'm wrong on this point as well? I don't know.
And lastly just to clarify my statement earlier in the thread, the Theta axis I was talking about is for the motorised rotational (360deg) control of a tool (in this case I was refering to a vinyl cutting blade)
Skippy

Cnc machines call a rotary axis which rotates around th elinear Z axis a "C" axis.

Tangential knife cutters therefore use a C axis.

Ballendo

P.S. Yes, the typical vinyl sign plotters do use a tangential <driven> cutter, and yes Mach2/3 supports that type of cut and axis.

" I've mainly used the more expensive flat bed type of vinyl cutter (Wild/Leica, Zund, etc.) and they all use a "Theta" axis which is the fourth axis attached to the Z axis which turns (by the Theta rotational motor) according to direction of cut required (also used in "pick & place machines). Correct me if I'm wrong but the cheaper see-saw roller type (Roland, etc.) vinyl cutters also use Theta axis control or at least the last ones I used did. (I'm curious as to how Spanish speakers from Spain define the difference between what we call the Z axis and the Theta axis because the letter "Z" is pronounced by us as "zed" or "zee" and in Spanish (in Spain not South America) is pronounced as "theta".) (All my dealings with cnc are in English hence the question) EDIT: now that I think about it the "th" combination doesn't exist in Spanish so maybe they have another name for it altogether.
Skippy

Now I'm confused. Yes, I've heard that movement being called the "C" axis and yet many times I've heard it being called theta axis such as here (in this particular case pick and place machines) someone wrote: "Modern machines 1, 2, 3 or more heads each use laser measuring heads to detect the Z and theta axis measurements of the part you are about to place. It uses these measurements to adjust the final X,Y trajectory of the part about to be placed as well as its thickness and rotation from the pick-up point." And yet others that say that theta is the measurement of the angle in degrees of rotation of the C axis. Two in a row wrong = time for take a back seat for a while.

The Vinyl Mate is A bargin @ $299 If you consider that Techno-isels Vinyl cutter attachment is around $700 and Others are $ 600 and up.

It is also Easy to pay for in on day. Make a 4x8 sign, the lowest price you should charge is $12.00 per square foot $12.00 x 32sq' = $384, with maybe $84.00 in materials.

Cutting Vinyl on a cnc router table or milling machine is a lot different than on a vinyl plotter,on a vinyl plotter the vinyl is run over rollers and the blade cuts along the roller so the distance never changes.
On a large bed cnc table, the cutting area is so large that the bed is never truly flat and when cutting vinyl that only as thick as a piece of paper, so you can see that just using the Z axis for depth control will not work. When cutting Vinyl the blade has to cut all the way through the vinyl but not cut into the paper backing.

The Vinyl Mate does not have to fit into the collet on your spindel, it can simply be mounted anywhere on the Z axis, so the length shoudn't be a problem. The offset should not make much of a difference, just set program 0 to the blade.

Hello Skippy,

Simple answer:

Theta= Engineering speak (Hoity-toity)

C Axis=CNC speak (working man)

Same thing. Two names. (<G>)

Ballendo


Now I'm confused. Yes, I've heard that movement being called the "C" axis and yet many times I've heard it being called theta axis such as here (in this particular case pick and place machines) someone wrote: "Modern machines 1, 2, 3 or more heads each use laser measuring heads to detect the Z and theta axis measurements of the part you are about to place. It uses these measurements to adjust the final X,Y trajectory of the part about to be placed as well as its thickness and rotation from the pick-up point." And yet others that say that theta is the measurement of the angle in degrees of rotation of the C axis. Two in a row wrong = time for take a back seat for a while.

Cutting Vinyl on a cnc router table or milling machine is a lot different than on a vinyl plotter,on a vinyl plotter the vinyl is run over rollers and the blade cuts along the roller so the distance never changes.
On a large bed cnc table, the cutting area is so large that the bed is never truly flat and when cutting vinyl that only as thick as a piece of paper, so you can see that just using the Z axis for depth control will not work. When cutting Vinyl the blade has to cut all the way through the vinyl but not cut into the paper backing.



What if you Spring load the blade to compensate for "un-true" tables?

What if you Spring load the blade to compensate for "un-true" tables?
The vinylmate is spring loaded. I also note that my friends professional vinyl cutter is spring loaded too. The blade sticks past what looks like a fat retractible pen. This allows the depth to be controlled by the riding of the housing along the Vinyl.

Essentially there are two springs. One for the blade pressure and another for the housing. Actually I am guessing all this but I expect it works like that.

This is what I am thinking it might be like.
I am probably wrong though.

(I'm curious as to how Spanish speakers from Spain define the difference between what we call the Z axis and the Theta axis because the letter "Z" is pronounced by us as "zed" or "zee" and in Spanish (in Spain not South America) is pronounced as "theta".) (All my dealings with cnc are in English hence the question) EDIT: now that I think about it the "th" combination doesn't exist in Spanish so maybe they have another name for it altogether.
Skippy

In all my engineering courses, theta never was pronounced 'zeta' but 'teta'. The fact that in Spanish 'h' is a dumb letter solves the problem.

/F

On both of my Roland plotters the blade or holder is not spring loaded. I have had both holders taken apart. All there is is just 2 small bearings, one at the end of the blade ( smaller than the one at the cutting end as the blades have a tapered point on the non cutting end that sit's partially into the smaller bearing ) and one that the blade goes through at the cutting end. They are drag knifes with an offset. The older holders were alluminum and did not have the black cap the is adjustable so the tip of the blade is all that sticks out. BTW that cap is just there to keep the knife from cutting through the vinyl and backing if you have to much pressure on it. The old holders would do this a lot and cut up the teflon strip that is under the cutting area. The pressure on the blade and holder is controlled by voltage. More voltage more pressure applied to the electro coil. I have an old Calcomp plotter that was designed for pens only but still uses the same principles.

"theta never was pronounced 'zeta' but 'teta'." I didn't say that it was!
"The fact that in Spanish 'h' is a dumb letter solves the problem" I know that. That's why I said "the "th" combination doesn't exist in Spanish" Why? Because the "H" is silent.
Therefore, what for us are pronounced (1) zed/zee (Z) and (2) theta would be pronounced by you (but using English phonetics so that people here can imagine the sound) as (1) theta and (2) teta. See my point? Remember it was a question not a critisism. And by the way, even though you didn't bother acknowledging my hello to you last time, I'll say it again. "Hello"
Skippy

Hi!
My name' s Tam. I am using Mach 3 software. I' ve just discovered the knife direction control in the user ' manual. Please show me what you do to use the knife direction control of Mach 3? Thank you very much. :cheers:
Best regards
Tam

Hi!
My name' s Tam. I am using Mach 3 software. I' ve just discovered the knife direction control in the user ' manual. Please show me what you do to use the knife direction control of Mach 3? Thank you very much. :cheers:
Best regards
Tam