I just purchased a pair of Emco machines for use in my home workshop, a 3rd generation F1 Mill and a Compact5 lathe with tool changer. To facilitate a more streamlined CAD/CAM process, I'd like to upgrade the rather antiquated controls to something more modern. I found one company (WelSoft (http://www.welsoft.co.uk/)) that makes preassembled upgrade kits specifically for Emco machines, but the systems look overpriced and unimpressive, so I think it's the DIY route for me.

Seeing as both machines are already equipped with CNC controls, what all do I need to upgrade? Is it recommended that I replace/upgrade the stepper motors, or can I simply buy a controller board/box and wire it in? I don't want to cut corners, but if something isn't necessary/recommended, I'd prefer to save the time and money. Basically, I just want to do this once, and do it right.

Thanks in advance.

-- Edward Dudlik III

I'm in a similar situation, just that I have only the lathe. I was not impressed by Welsoft either.

I am somewhat unsure if changing the steppers will be necessary. I think I would try the ones that are there for starters. A modern chopping and microstepping driver can handle them as well as more modern motors. Using the existing ones will allow you to do your conversion without disabling the machine(s). Just unplug them from the current electronics and hook them up to your new one.

Hi Edward, welcome to the "Zone". There are a large number of systems which will do just fine. If it were up to me, I'd consider keeping the iron, removing the steppers, and replacing them with comparably-sized servo motors. Close the loop, get plenty of speed, power, and accuracy. The large number of '80's vintage machines, from Emco up to Bridgeport, with old/slow controls, is a real boon to hobbyists because you can often pick them up for a song and refit them with modern controls and software.

I like Flashcut. Other guys like Mach 2/3, OneCNC, they're all good. Try some of the forums here for these systems, there's plenty of advise available.

Again, if you want a quality unit and only want to do it once, it may pay to go for the servos. Just one opinion! Good luck.

If it were up to me, I'd consider keeping the iron, removing the steppers, and replacing them with comparably-sized servo motors. Close the loop, get plenty of speed, power, and accuracy.Is it possible to use a closed-loop controller with normal stepper motors? I would ultimately like to go with servo gear, but it is considerably more expensive than open-loop equipment. If I can just buy the closed-loop controller now and switch to servos later, that would be ideal.

Not that I know of.

Eric

Not that I know of.I figured as much, but it was worth asking.

Is anyone here familiar with the 4UAPC Chopper Board (http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm) kits sold by HobbyCNC.com? At only $79 for a 3-axis board, I wouldn't feel so bad about putting off the closed loop conversion.

It's a great board.

Eric

@eDudlik:
You can drive servo motors with a stepper controller like Mach2 that outputs step/dir signals. You must then change motors and drive electronics. And make sure you get servo drives that accept step/dir inputs. A lot of the industrial drives do. But most of them are way too big for that machine. The only I know that is fairly small are the WorldServo drives. But there are probably others I don't know about.

for the compact5 look here as well, a lot of good info http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/emcocompact5users/ i have one myself and so far dont mind it. a guy a while back wrote an excel spreadsheet that makes it much much easier to write g-code with. then you just transfer it over to the emco and go. let me know if you are interested in the spreadsheet.

let me know if you are interested in the spreadsheet.

I'm interested. Until I can get around to install a new controller it's a pretty time consuming task to enter code.

Also since I don't have the manual, several of the codes I cannot get to work as expected.

Also since I don't have the manual, several of the codes I cannot get to work as expected.
I'd like a copy of the spreadsheet, too. If you need any info from the manuals, I have a stack of them here.

@eDudlik:

What I would like to have is the explanation of the G-codes as used in Emco C5CNC.
Today I've been fighting the G02/G03, and ended up doing one of the arcs as segments. And then again I had to take umpteen extra passes to get rid of the rings that occurs on each line break as it stops for a fraction of a second.

Another thing I have not figured out is why I have to home it before every run. My mill (running EMC) remembers where it is. So if the program stops (or breaks) at any place, it will always start at the same place. But C5 will assume X=0, Y=0 at the point it is when the program starts.

I'm not using the machine much because of all the strange peculiarities. And I don't yet want to upgrade it because I don't know what control program to use.

- First choice would be EMC, but it's not ready for lathe work yet. It works OK on my mill. And it's capable of running different hardware interfaces.
- TurboCNC: I'm not sure if it will be just another round of trouble. But I may try it. It seems pretty simple to do that. With a realtime update of the DRO, it would clearly be my second choice.
- Mach2/Mach3: I see lathe mentioned, but no documentation. So it is probably not ready for lathe either. And the display is too crowded, more like a game than a MMI.
- PCdreh: Looks like turbocnc with a rudimentary path editor and backplot.
- WelSoft: I cannot really see that this is an upgrade other than getting rid of the cassete player.
- Others: I didn't really find some that is adaptable enough.

Anyway I'll not get rid of it. The mechanics is amazingly precise and well made for such a tiny machine. And when it can be bought used for less than a rattling asian non-CNC import it is the perfect choice in this price category. The only things I did was to flip the plastic slide rest on the rear side, clean and lube the ballscrews. And it's like new.

I have the program to transfer to/from the PC (DOS program), so the fact I did not get the cassette working is not a problem.

Let's keep in contact. I will upgrade it, it just have to gain some priority. The first one of us doing it should share experiences with the other.

sorry about the delay in the spreadsheet, anyway like everything on the internet scan the zip file before you open it. It shouldn't have anything but just in case. I put a txt file in there as well read it.


excel spreadsheet (http://www.alternativemicrosystems.com/emco.zip)

I'm interested in the spread sheet as it sounds like something I could use on an old White- Sundstrand.

an update from the compact5 groups. someone over there has a mastercam post processor for the compact5. I've been able to post a few things out and get it over to the compact5. as far as transfering stuff over there i am using freenclink from onecnc it takes some special steps to get it going but if you want me to post how i got it working here i'd be happy to.

update for those who care, i've been using mastercams post processor to post out to the emco and it is working nicely. next you might want to check out this url

http://www.angelfire.com/emo2/cnc5doctor/

and now for a copy and paste from another site, this is a copy and paste and was not written by me, anyway gl with it


Hello everyone, due to the many questions asked about updating MasterCam and
the post that works with the CNC5, I'll give everyone a quick lesson on how to
do so. One warning: If you don't feel confident enough to carry out these
instructions, "DON'T DO IT!!!". Only if you think you can follow these
directions should you try and do so, OK? Good! Now then, the first thing you
should do assuming you don't have the right post processor, is go to the
MasterCam educational division web site and download the post for the Compact 5
CNC lathe. You can go to my web site at:
http://www.angelfire.com/emo2/cnc5doctor for the web link to that site and get
it if you need to. The download will be in the form of a .zip file. If you don't
have WinZip, I have a link at my site that will take you to a place where you
can get a trial version of WinZip free, that will be able to unzip the file to
your computer. The MasterCam post that you want is: "Mplcnc5.pst". Make sure you
get the right post. Now, with post in hand, go to your computer. Click
>"Start" then "Run". Have your floppy disk you zipped the post to in A:\
drive. Type: A:\ in the window, then click the "Browse" button. Click on the
"Mplcnc5.zip" file, then hit "OK". Hit "OK" again. You will be ask where to
unzip the file to. Type in the window: C:\Mcam9\lathe\posts. Then click on
"unzip". This will load the post to the right folder in MasterCam. If you have
another version of MasterCam other than version 9, just replace the number other
than 9, OK? Then the last step is click on "Close". Now, open the MasterCam
program on your computer. Click > "Main Menu". Now hit the "Alt + C" keys
together. This will open the Chooks section. In the window, look for the
"UpdatePST9.dll" file. Click on it to highlight the file, then click on "OK". It
will ask you what file you want to update. Make sure that the post to update is
the "Mplcnc5.pst", then click > "Update". This puts the necessary updates
into the post, if you fail to do this, you will get error messages up the ying
yang. It will ask you if you want to see the updates, either answer yes or no,
depending on how you feel. After all this is done, go back to the main screen.
Now we are going to set the CNC5 post as the default post, and here's how: Click
> "Main Menu" > "Screen" > "Config". You will now be in the
configuration window. You will see tabs towards the upper portion of the window.
Click on the "Files" tab. The window on the right will have post processors
highlighted. If its not highlighted, highlight it. Below that, a small window
saying "Active post" will show the current default post. Click on the box to the
right of that window to open the post processor list. Search and find the
"Mplcnc5.pst" file, click on it to highlight that post, then click "OK". The
active post should say "Mplcnc5.pst". If it does, click "OK" at the bottom of
the window. You will be ask if you want to update the configuration, click >
"Yes". You now have changed the default post to the "Mplcnc5.pst" for the CNC5
lathe!! Now lets update the post for the CNC5. From the "Main Menu" click
>"File" > "Edit" > "PST". You will be asked what post you want to
update. Make sure it says "Mplcnc5.pst", then click "OK". You will see two
windows, make both of them "full screen". You will now see the MasterCam post
processor file for the CNC5. Under the Headline at the top, look for "Revision
Log" just below it. Look for the third (#) sign down. Put your cursor to the
right of it and click to put it there. Then hit "Backspace" on the key board
erasing the (#) sign. Hit the space bar once, the type SEXTNC, hit space bar 5
times, the type, # Use this to remove the file extension , do not put a period
at the end of the line. Next, go down to the "Formulas - Use" section. Look for
the line that says "seqmax : 200". Change this number from 200 to 211. This
gives you a few more lines of code to work with. Now, go to the "Postline"
section farther down the file. Look for the "psof" line, that is the start of
file for non-zero tool n
umber. Put a (#) in front of the line that has the "M06" in it. This will keep
the post from using this line. Now for the last steps, go farther down the file
to the "Numbered questions for MasterCam" section. Put these answers in the
proper question numbers:Question 80 = 2Question 81 = 300Question 82 = OQuestion
83 = 8Question 84 = 1Question 87 = A Once you are done with that, click the "X"
in the upper right hand corner of the "SMALLER" window. MasterCam sees you have
made changes to the post file and want to know if you want to save the changes,
click "YES". Then click the "X" in the "OUTER" window. YOUR DONE!!! Wasn't
that easy?? Go to the main menu and go from there. Hope these directions helps
everyone setting MasterCam to the CNC5. GOOD LUCK!!

sorry about the delay in the spreadsheet, anyway like everything on the internet scan the zip file before you open it. It shouldn't have anything but just in case. I put a txt file in there as well read it.


excel spreadsheet (http://www.alternativemicrosystems.com/emco.zip)
Can you tell me how to use this spreadsheet? Maybe I'm a bit slow, but I couldn't get any results from it.

update for those who care, i've been using mastercams post processor to post out to the emco and it is working nicely. next you might want to check out this url

http://www.angelfire.com/emo2/cnc5doctor/
I must be having a really slow day. I checked that whole site and didn't find the discussed postprocessor.

-- Edward Dudlik III

I figured as much, but it was worth asking.

Is anyone here familiar with the 4UAPC Chopper Board (http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm) kits sold by HobbyCNC.com? At only $79 for a 3-axis board, I wouldn't feel so bad about putting off the closed loop conversion.


These are great boards but I believe they only handle 3.5amps per motor. I am not familiar with your set up but on a larger mill they would probably run out of steam.

I have a mini lathe that was binding when i first got it and the motors would bog down from just the binding. I since freed it up and the motors work great but its only a mini. If you mill is a full size I would probaly look at something with more current capability.

actually the link for the post processor is on mc's edu web site, go here

http://www.mastercamedu.com/Downloads/Default.asp

then click on posts, then scroll down to the emco section and it is this one CNC5 Mplcnc5

as for the spread sheet, after you enter the correct codes into it you need to save it off as a formatted text, space delimited program. a program should look something like the following, this is just a sample program that doesn't do much of anything, but you will get an idea of what the formatting is from it and how it should look. Look at the attatched file, the formatting got all messed up when i copied/pasted and formatting is everything with the compact 5


hope this helps.

These are great boards but I believe they only handle 3.5amps per motor. I am not familiar with your set up but on a larger mill they would probably run out of steam.

I have a mini lathe that was binding when i first got it and the motors would bog down from just the binding. I since freed it up and the motors work great but its only a mini. If you mill is a full size I would probaly look at something with more current capability.

The Emco lathe is equipped with ball screws, so 3.5A will be more than enough. I believe the mill has ball screws too. Other than that, I know nothing about the mentioned boards. The efficiency of the ball screws are around 90-95% and the machines are small and very well made. If there is any binding, it just needs cleaning. The original stepper drives use stoneage non-chopping driver technology, so almost anything will be an improvement.

Hello,

i can offer you a plug & play interface for EMCO C5 CNC or C5 PC to controll
with all software with step/dir like Mach3. The price for the interface is
Euro 399,-- + s&h.

regards

Frank