So who built their CNC Mill/Router/Lathe and is making money with it?

I wish I could say .....I'm still in the spending mode-when I can.
....though i'm just a hobbyist.

Bloy

lots of votes... but no comments..c'mon guys spill it! (group)

No money here yet...I've got something good being shipped on friday next week! :devious:

Here is some advice,
"Don't quit your day time job" :D

well, while Im at college I have a little spare time to make parts, although I have only sold a few things, it is my main job:) setting up an online store right now:)

Jon

I'm far too nice to my friends, and make them stuff for nothing. That what a hobby is for right?

setting up an online store right now:)

Jon

Same thing here, once I get my machine finished. :cheers:

There are a ton of projects I want to build for myself, but I also have a variety of bits n' bobbles that I will be selling to try and generate some extra income.

Speaking on online stores, I am using OSCommerce (http://www.oscommerce.com/). If you haven't seen it, check it out. Far nicer than any 'Shopping Cart' program you could buy (OSCommerce is Free/OSS) and you can customize it however you want.

I keep justifying my continuous hardware acquisition with the "Someday..." excuse.

"Someday, I'll offer steam or IC engine kits"

"Someday, I'll invent some cool R/C widget which will provide some income"

I always know, deep-down, that the chances of making money, for me, are pretty slim. I think a lot of the fun will go out of it when creating income is the primary goal.

Yep, I'm making money at it,now there are 5 of us and about 10 cnc mills/routers.lathes....but it all started as my fathers hobby about 23 years ago when he made his first cnc engraver, never looked back. Since then we've made many more machines with the largest been a 3Mx2M router.
We still keep wanting to build new machines, currently playing around with ideas for our first 5 axis router.

So if keep at it...you can make a very enjoyable living out of it!

Simon

Yep, I'm making money at it,now there are 5 of us and about 10 cnc mills/routers.lathes....but it all started as my fathers hobby about 23 years ago when he made his first cnc engraver, never looked back. Since then we've made many more machines with the largest been a 3Mx2M router.
We still keep wanting to build new machines, currently playing around with ideas for our first 5 axis router.

So if keep at it...you can make a very enjoyable living out of it!

Simon

Any Pictures? of older and newer ones?

No problem, ive posted them into a new thread...here didnt seem the right location so look here.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73213#post73213

Simon

Here is some advice,
"Don't quit your day time job" :D


lol so true :) i have sold stuff but after counting hours and tooling cost, i could make more working at a tacobell hehe

Wow, looks like it is a pretty even mix on here!

Once my machine is finished, I hope to put myself solidly in the "I make some on-the-side money" camp. ;)

I have made money with my CNC plasma table but it has mostly been a support machine used in conjunction with contracted fabricating projects. It's hard to separate exactly what to assign money to when you use several machines during a project. I can say however that if I didn't have the plasma table I could not have done several of the projects that I have completed and made money on. It's a strong spoke in the wheel of my shop.
I want to convert my mill to CNC also but have little hope of the mill making me any money. I want to just do it for the enjoyment of having it.

traveler....you allocate costs based on run time and setup for each machine....your cost to run the machine on an hourly basis should have all the maintenance, etc. factored into it.

So initially my thoughts were to make money off running the machine.....but now I'm moving into a stage of designing solutions, providing parts for people who wish to design their own systems.

ViperTX
Tell us more,..but now I'm moving into a stage of designing solutions, providing parts for people who wish to design their own systems. solutions for cnc ? or other stuff.
mike

Solutions like:
Kit 1 (Power Supply, 4U cabinet, Interface Panel). User adds Gecko or Rutex drivers.

Kit 2 (Kit 1, Plus Servos with Encoders). User adds Gecko or Rutex Servo drivers.

Those are the 2 solutions that I'll be offering in the next 30 days.

Thanks for the response Vipertx, I don't see it as that simple though. If I use my plasma table for 2 hours, my welding machines for 2 hours and my hand drill for 6 hours to complete a 10 hour job, it would be out of balance to give the plasma table only 20% of the total credit. It is a much larger contribution than the hand drill that takes 60% of the time.
The set-up time is only the time to put the metal on the table because the design is in Autocad and is needed for all phases of the fabrication project. To allot any design time to the plasma table and try to separate it out, would be pulling numbers from the air. Then too how does one give credit to a machine that is a smaller part of the project but is required for the completion of the project. I see it as more complicated than it first appears

Thanks for the response Vipertx, I don't see it as that simple though. If I use my plasma table for 2 hours, my welding machines for 2 hours and my hand drill for 6 hours to complete a 10 hour job, it would be out of balance to give the plasma table only 20% of the total credit. It is a much larger contribution than the hand drill that takes 60% of the time.
The set-up time is only the time to put the metal on the table because the design is in Autocad and is needed for all phases of the fabrication project. To allot any design time to the plasma table and try to separate it out, would be pulling numbers from the air. Then too how does one give credit to a machine that is a smaller part of the project but is required for the completion of the project. I see it as more complicated than it first appears

When you purchased the equipment you had a cost associated with that machine. If you figured that the machine could be used for some period of time (either usage hours or the time that you can amortize it's cost via the IRS). So, if the machine was $40,000 and it's life was 10,000 hours of usage. The machine is costing you $4 dollars for every hour it is used. If an operator can monitor 4 of those machines then you would take their wages&benefits divided by the number of hours they work and the number of machines they can monitor...let's say that the direct labor charge is $20 per hour per machine time, that would be your direct labor cost that you would add to the $4 + $20. Of course there is the overhead which is all the non-direct labor and costs to keep the doors open. If there is any interest, I could write up a business case.....Maybe the drill usage is $0.20 + $10 (labor cost).....before long you realize why it's sometimes better to remove as much of the manual labor as possible.

Yeah, I'm making money........................................Disappear that is, LOL.

Yeah, I'm making money........................................Disappear that is, LOL.

My machine isn't even done yet, and I am pretty good at that too! Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/friday.gif

Vipertx- I completely agree with you if one is truly in the business of fabrication and machine shop. My machine is home built and because of the evolvution and upgrades, I cannot put an accurate cost in time or labor. Just like buliding a hot-rod it would be a mistake to assign a labor cost to it, it would be too discourageing and could well end the whole project. Most of what I do in this area is a labor of love and it has become a pay for itself hobby. The plasma table pays enough that I can consider adding more toys, IE: CNC of my mill/drill. I do realize how important it is to remove as much manual labor as possible. and follow that path as far I can. A bit of brag here, on one job, I had a large number of holes to tap in 5/16" plate and by nudging hole size a bit I was able to locate and burn all the holes, and with a tap in a cordless drill I tapped good holes in a hurry.

If there is any interest, I could write up a business case.....Maybe the drill usage is $0.20 + $10 (labor cost).....before long you realize why it's sometimes better to remove as much of the manual labor as possible.


You Peaked my curiosity........ :)

traveler
you can't assign cost to machines the such as we build ,you need to assign the cost
in man hours + material .keeps it simple.
mike

kind of a dumb question (doesn't fit in this thread but I didnt think it was worth making a new one). Whats the difference between a mill and a cnc?

CNC=Computer Numerical Control=Any machine operated by computer.
MILLING Machine=a device to cut material in a linear fashion with a rotating tool

Combined they equal CNC MILLING MACHINE

In a reality i wanna use it to make money but have to get this built(shop) and setup (web page) ect just trying to get settled in and setup so for now more hobby/learning but the day will come ... the whole reason i got involved with the cnc is so i could cut the parts i need and i can buy the material cheaper then pre made units..... but as far as cutting with out a cnc???? does your straight lines look like figure eights??????? hehehe mine did now i can get straight lines ;)

if you count all the time from when I started at 16yrs old to when I started a machine shop.. .....welll...... lost alot of money, but it was fun. :D Now that I own a shop with real machines. I only lost money the first year, and now I am making money lots of it, but I spend it pretty fast too ;) So ya I make money but at a hobby level nope I was having too much fun.

Now that I am getting back into the hobby end (because work is getting pretty damn automated) I am definitely not make money (in the hobby end) but I damn sure am spending it fast. probably could of bought a minimill by now.


But where is the fun in that!

I better make money! This machine IS my job!

Well, this is only one of a number of machines but it is how I eek out a living. This machine was built specifically for two customers. One needs a lot of tracer lathe work so I intend to use it to make templates for them. The other client needs fixtures that seem to get increasingly smaller so I built a small machine that's a bit more suited to drilling all those .015/.035 holes.

I started it in Dec. and it has just reached the point where the cash flow should start to go in the other direction. ;-)

If anyone is interested, here's a construction album/slideshow: http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/

Regards,
Walt

If anyone is interested, here's a construction album/slideshow: http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/

Regards,
Walt


Awesome journal Walt, I'm still digesting some of your ideas :) Thanks for sharing


Pablo

Not really making money but cutting parts for other to get started.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10067

Joe

I did build aplasma cnc with flashcut controls and that machine make more money than any othe in the shop

No INcome ... All OUTgo

No INcome ... All OUTgo

Yeah, I can remember when it was fun spending all that money :D

Well, this is only one of a number of machines but it is how I eek out a living. This machine was built specifically for two customers. One needs a lot of tracer lathe work so I intend to use it to make templates for them. The other client needs fixtures that seem to get increasingly smaller so I built a small machine that's a bit more suited to drilling all those .015/.035 holes.

I started it in Dec. and it has just reached the point where the cash flow should start to go in the other direction. ;-)

If anyone is interested, here's a construction album/slideshow: http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/

Regards,
Walt

Nice, very nice indeed! Lots of out go on that deal

So who built their CNC Mill/Router/Lathe and is making money with it?
Started using my Taig mill three years ago to make my jewellery molds. I now need another machine and am looking into servo motors. Jewellery made from my milling machine now accounts for approximately half my buisness.
Wawatobi

wawatobi...any examples of your work??

Sorry, I don't have a web site to display my work. I could send some pictures if
you're interested. I got started with cnc when I bought a computerized engraving machine for the trophy part of my business twenty years ago. I made
my own cutters and cut simple planimetric stuff. The z axis on my machine was
not programable so I had to machine level by level, resetting the height by hand
for each level. kind of tedious! I made parts for my jewellery designs rather than
whole designs. I finally took the plunge and bought a Taig cnc machine. I need another machine to avoid going to my shop on weekends to use the mill. I would like to use servos on a Taig mill but the price is too much right now for a turnkey system. That's why I joined this forum. I'd like to try to assemble a 4axis
driver using gecko 320 drives. I'm a little leary because I don't know anything about power supplies or electronics in general.
Cheers
p.s. Wawatobi is a village I lived in while working on an irrigation project in Sulawesi, Indonesia during the early eighties.

Looks like you've done a nice job with your Taig.

Are making money but for fear of getting their money making idea and plans duplicated and thereby losing revenue, are not saying that they are making good money with their machine ?
If you are one of those people-- it takes a ton of gumption to admit to it ... !!!

wawatobi....Sure, I'd love to see examples of your work. You should be able to upload some pics to one of the forums....there is one here about jewelery making. Or send to ViperTx@hotmail.com

Now i don't make money with my cnc router, it's my hobby. Although i don't discart in a future to make of this activity my job...
Best regards

Juan Sanchez

www.geocities.com/grabadosjapansa/index_EN.htm

Hey Juan,
I was just looking at your website and you have some great looking carvings. I was wondering what size bit do you use to get all that detail. Thanks-Robbie

Hey Juan,
I was just looking at your website and you have some great looking carvings. I was wondering what size bit do you use to get all that detail. Thanks-Robbie
thank you Robbie,
in the roughing i use a 1/4'' flat bit and to finishing i use a 1/8'' ball bit.
Regards.
Juan Sanchez.
www.geocities.com/grabadosjapansa

Hi-I am a retired engineer with a patent pending invention that is used in "benchrest shooting". It is a joystick that is capable of moving a firearm in azimuth and elevation. See it on E-Bay (BenchRest JoyStick Item number: 7185758262). With a design in m,y mind. I purchased a NASA CNC (Fagor Controller) last December. Now 9 months and 3 prototypes later I have a product. Started selling last week. Already sold a few. Also just purchased a used Kitamura mycenter 1. I told my wife I needed a tool changer. I BETTER MAKE some MONEY!!!

Herb, I looked at your invention on e-bay----looks super---hope you make a pile on cash

I think if you bought a machine , say a black lab special (~2x12x24) for $600 , first of all that machine is not industrial, and you probably would end up beefing it up or fixing it before you got half way to recovering the cost of the machine, which would probably takes at least 1/2 year.

Anyone know why this last post keeps showing up in new posts even though it's from 10-6?

Also, what's a black lab special?

Thanks!

-Jeff

maybe because its the last and most new item in the thread ?

a black lab is is a hobby cnc machine maker/seller...

blacklabs.com ? maybe it was the guy's user name on ebay .. not sure if he still sells them but for $600-$1200 he was selling a 24 x 12 x 3 light duty machine, turn - key.

Anyone know why this last post keeps showing up in new posts even though it's from 10-6?

Also, what's a black lab special?

Thanks!

-Jeff

I think it keeps showing because everytime someone votes on any of the polls it moves that thread to the top of the list and puts the date of the last person who took the poll in the in the last post collium. Even though there are no new post in the thread. Just new voters.

yes i have with my cnc foam cutter
but found out shipping and making box answering Questions getting foam
keeping cut file organized makinf fixtures out of foam Ect.
took more time than cutting the foam
I work 11 hours a day leave at 4 pm get home at 6 am i have a long drive to work
106 wing span B36

I work 11 hours a day leave at 4 pm get home at 6 am i have a long drive to work



"Being self-imployed is great. You only have to work half days --------- and you can pick any 12 hours that you want."

Yep, beats unemployment or working for an organization that is "lost at sea"....

I am now starting to get orders. Check out my new web site. www.benchrestjoystick.com.

Congratulations Herb....nice to see someone making a few buck off their inventions.

Has anyone checked out mfgquote.com?
there are alot of RFQ's on there. But it cost 400 permonth.
I havent purchased it , but I have seen what it's about.
Im on the fence about joining their site, I havent talked to anyone that actually got work from there.

Tony

There's a thread discussing this site in the cnczone clubhouse dated 1-16-06.

I Intend to make money using it, do good intentions count for anything?

Steven

So from reading the threads on MFG Quote
Maybe I should stay away and save the $$$
I live in Detroit and I am an Engineer by trade.
I think it's gonna be beatin feet to get the work
when Im ready.
I appreciate all of your inputs here.
This is a very good group.

I have to tell you that I was quite dis-hearted to find so many people in the same boat. I'm spending much faster than... anything.

Someone speak some calming words to me please!

I have 2 CNC mills and 1 CNC plasma table. I have only made a few parts on them. I've never set foot into a shop, ever. Everything I've learned it's been on the web and by breaking tools. (I have lots of lovely scraps of ruined metal if there ever becomes a market for them) I'm in a small town with little industry, and hope to make something of my determination in manufacturing.

I'm still in newbie stage, but I'm hopeing that someone tells me their is hope? No, I'm not making money on my machines, but plan on it. Is that too much to hope for. Can I do this without working for someone else? I have 5 kids and a wife hopeing I make it too... should I stop the "hobby" stuff and get a job, or press forward? Some of you more experianced CNCists chime in!

It's just a question of marketing, I suppose. The first decision would be what to market, and the two basic choices are goods vs services. In either case you have to make known that you have something on offer.

If you go with services, you have to offer them in a format suited to the local economy. Here it's agriculture and most of the machine shops advertise services tailored to that... irrigation hardware, farm equipment repair parts, etc.

Goods is easier; you can shoestring your way into the marketplace with ornamental stuff for home and garden. Next to no liability risk if you use your head on what you make, and people will shell out faster for cute feel good items than for something functional.

Either way it comes back down to identifying a niche in the local economy that you then figure out how to fill ;)


Tiger

There is hope which you can actualize by "bidding and landing your first job where you utilize your machinery."

yes but how do you land a job to utilize your machinery .. you have to be a salesman and a markateer 1st in order to 'close the deal' ...

and what sources for contracts .. govt or other wise .. things that yield consistent , steady work , not onesy twoesy every couple weeks..

Well have you heard of craigslist.org......I would start by placing a small advertisement....it's free.....

hey man all that stuff looks like frisco bay area stuff .... and all jamed into a tiny space ow ,, my eyes hurt too high of density in links ...

hey man all that stuff looks like frisco bay area stuff .... and all jamed into a tiny space ow ,, my eyes hurt too high of density in links ...

There are links for most major cities in the US as well...

Hello again,

I weighed in on this thread back at page two and thought I'd throw in another two pence. For borris in particular.

When I started my shop some twenty odd years ago, I tried a lot of marketing angles. They all failed miserably. The only thing that really worked was reputation by word of mouth. Of course, when you're trying to get established, there is no reputation or word of mouth. (See Catch 22) Getting that first job can be excruciating. The first years in general are painfull. You end up taking a lot of crap work from customers that are seeking nothing but the low bidder. A lot of my early work was hours away.

That being said, if you have talent, there will come a time when you don't just look for customers that suit your machinery, but customers seek you out because they know you can get it done for them. As you reach that point, you start collecting tooling that conforms to your customers needs. Synergy. You get to pick and choose your clients. I always was good at being a primadonna .

As stated in my earlier post, I built my machine mostly to do stuff that has gotten entirely too tiny for manual machining. Here are a few pictures of the latest item to come off my Taig. It's a welding fixture and is fairly typical of things that I develop for this customer.

http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/WeldFixture/DSCF1509.JPG
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/WeldFixture/DSCF1510.JPG
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/WeldFixture/DSCF1511.JPG
http://www.chicobritish.org/CNC/WeldFixture/DSCF1512.JPG

Regards,
Walt

Looks pretty intricate .. how long does this thing take to grind out ?

Looks pretty intricate .. how long does this thing take to grind out ?


Looks like a stainless steel vacume brazing heat exchanger fixture. Lots of carbide cutters. I bet it gets a pretty penny for the intracies. Nice work. Real nice.

You should try this in molebdinum. Total PIA. Worst mother material I have ever worked on. Cutter life was Pffft.

Looks pretty intricate .. how long does this thing take to grind out ?

5-1/2 hours.

Looks like a stainless steel vacume brazing heat exchanger fixture. Lots of carbide cutters. I bet it gets a pretty penny for the intracies. Nice work. Real nice.

You should try this in molebdinum. Total PIA. Worst mother material I have ever worked on. Cutter life was Pffft.


Actually it's 7075 aluminum. The 64 posts get little bits of tube place on them. A 1/16 dowel pin goes in the two round holes to locate a circuit board on the fixture. The slots are for access for a laser welding beam which welds the tubes to the board. No idea what it's all for.

True position on the posts is +-.0005. Diameter tolerance is +.000, -.001.

Walt

Wow, thats some very precise work. Very nice. Looks kinda like a weird heat sink....but yet very not like a heat sink....;)

for fun i made an ammunition holder - just a simple small number of holes (most targets are about 5 shots) and many high end target rifles are single shot bolt action -
Attempted selling this simple thing and of course it didn't happen -- I just thought I have
make something that can sell with this damned machine - it's upsetting that it's just for fun, for prototypes and family/friend stuff and that you can't really market something that sells !!! (the machine is a jgro I beleive with the skate bearings and gas pipe).

I guess I just have to keep trying and try harder until it happens ... I should not be upset at the first couple failures, how many trials did poor edison go through before getting tungsten in a vaccuum for the incadescent lamp ? thousands ..
If he would have thought like Tesla, he would have been far ahead, Tesla was the AC guy and also the inventor of the flourescent light.

Don't give up on your dreams. What you have experienced is a marketing issue. That's altogether different than a production issue. Remember, marketing is everything when you want to make money.Think of it this way, if you had a cure for cancer, but couldn't market it properly, you would go broke. No one would know what you offer. The same is with your shell holders. find the market for your product and then fill the need.

Well, I tried to see that there was a market for little wooden stamps - the kind you ink your stationary or envelope with .. so i made a pattern on a small block of wood and tried that -- no go either -- i wonder if it would have been much more desireable to have the rubber mounted (guess i would be cutting rubber and glueing to wood) -- somehow this doesnt seem to be a fruitful endeavor either ....

Well I haven't even finished my first cnc router yet but I am already making heaps of money with it !!!

Heaps of money dissapear that is...

Russell.

The Japanese ( or some Asian country) have a saying "Making money is like digging with a nail - losing it is like pouring water on the sand" .. so it is with cnc .. making something with your machine someone will pay for is like pulling teeth ... it is a real massey furgesson to do.

I met a guy that has 60 watt laser machine that says can gut through 3/8" lucite..
he's in the sign making business .. I don't think I could begin to compete with that and my mini-dremel pro !! ha.. I would have to leverage something indirectly.. still working on it !!!!

Well, so long as my router makes timber lures when it is finished, I'll be happy. Actually at the moment if it moves without catching fire I'll be happy. lol

Russell.

If I could make 1 piece of **it that I could receive even pennies for with my machine I would be happy, so far nothing has been sold directly for currency, just like exchange stuff.. I guess because I have not become good enough with it yet to make something of enough value to someone else..

do yuo think someone would buy this ?

I think that people looking to make money from the simple use and custom jobs directly, are up against a pretty hard sell... that is, typically machines not as big, fast and accurate as purely commercial machines... a tough sell. However, unless it's just a sideline thing where any money is good, only then can you undercut the commercial cousins.

...but the real opportunity to make money is coming up with some other "thing" that the CNC can make for you, something unique and special for a given market... selling this "thing" is where there is money to be had in a CNC saturated market.

Definitely has to be unique.. otherwise the big boys have a mold and plastic and cranking out thousands a day ... Course as soon as something gets out, as discussed elsewhere on this board, (i'll let you read it instead of repeating it) ...

I saw one of those 'enco' type mills with 1/4HP motor for the spindle and nice little aluminum T-slotted table, think it was 7x9x6 .. they were asking $800 .. had quick move speeds of 30 ipm -- that would offer the better accuracy for prototyping .. at a reasonable $ --

Come on, someone on this board has some formula to sell something ... some one suggested to sell household & garden items, and said the more 'feel good' and less useful it was the faster the sell ... ( which i guess means there are alot of people needing to feel good out there with extra money to try and do it with - let me not stand in the way of their 'pursuit of hapiness') ;).

I think the 'War Sucks!' plaque would help people pissed off at this afghan/iraq situation 'feel better' by displaying their feelings ... maybe it's a little too radical and needs to be toned down more for the masses with more polishing the edges and less rough cut .. maybe I should afix it to a stick which you can put at in your garden or front lawn / walkway.. dang .. this is just starting a great brain-storm going here ..... :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee: :wee:
What if i changed 'war' to the current political figure of dislike .. ??? that might reach a few nitch persons, but perhaps a more widespread solution is what is in store..... i guess i need the virtual black board for the other team players to shout out

yup... stuff like that. Lots of little obscure "things" that can be made to sell. And the more grass roots and specialised you can get, the better. There's lots of obscure hobbies that can be marketed to, and what's more awesome is everyone involved in them get online to buy stuff. I have a bunch of ideas, but wont tell until I've made my CNC, made the molds, cast them, and have the site up and selling 'em. :)

Money, who wants money? before you can even think of making money, you must be tooled up to do what it is that you are going to do.
This is not such a simple task. Here is an example. What would you do if someone came to you right now and said "I want 100 parts made to this drawing and I want them yesterday".
The hypothetical contract is worth $1 per item and the lead time is 1 week. The hypothetical customer requires 100 parts per week and the total quantity is 2000.
The part is a small brass bush .501" bore X .626" OD X .500" long with the usual tolerances and material type as required by the customer.
Simple? Wouldn't we like jobs like this?
How are you going to do it. There must be a dozen ways and each one has it's own drawbacks.
You find customers like this in the fringe industries supplying the aircomppressor industries and other people making garden sprinkler fittings that are sold at local weekend markets.
The problem with this simple hypothetical job is, can you actually go out and buy material and start producing parts right now, or are you going to go round in circles because you're not up to doing it?
There's tons of money to be made, but you've got to be ready for it. Nothing pees off a customer more than a late delivery or jobs that are out of spec.
I worked evenings and weekends in the late 80's and 90's using a handcranked capstan lathe of 1940's vintage making parts such as these, in the garage.
The tools were all hand ground form tools (no tool & cutter grinder).
Did I make any money? Well I did it for about 7 years and paid tax on the output, so I must have done something right.
If you're not ready you won't get to the starting pad, and you won't get the work.
The most important thing is to get a nucleus of machinability, to start off with and build on your profit to increase your tooling inventary.
One thing for sure, if you think it's just going to be a hobby/make a few bucks and generally have a good time, go back to bed and stop dreaming.
Making money is a very competative game and you can't muck about.
Oh yeah. I forgot to mention, down at our end of the foodchain the buying power for materials does not raise much excitement and so does not get anyone bending over backward to supply you with a few rods of material at the very best price.
If you're already making parts and some money then you're launched and running, and pretty soon you'll be browzing the catalogues for the super Wotzit CNC slant turn thingy, but if it's still just a wistfull dream then think about the hypothetical job I just mentioned and think how you would go about making a simple job like that, and how much money you need to just get started.
This also applies to other materials and job styles be it wood, metal or plastic.
Ian.

The very first tool is knowledge. Once you know, there are things you can make with just a drill press. The more money you wish to make, the more you need to invest. The biggest issue is what do the zoning laws say? In my town, there is NO light manufacturing allowed in residential areas. As the building inspector put it though, "Don't ask, don't tell, don't employ, don't have customers coming to your door (ie deliver or mail order), don't make noise that upsets the neighbors, don't upset the neighbors, don't have a mess and no problem."

mrwild, I see you have the problem of zoning laws too. From what I've been reading on these forums I came to the conclusion that "light industry" was a normal occupation in US residential neighbourhoods.
In OZ we have 'zoned for residential' which means you live there and park the car in the garage, that is if you're not doing some "business", otherwise you park the car in the driveway and it's busines at all hours.
Which leads me to tell a quick funny story. I once had a small ongoing sub contract job to supply the firm that I worked for with some brass strikes for Commission house doors. A commission house is a local council owned house that is rented out
A strike is the part on the door frame that the lock bolt "strikes when the door closes and so locks the door.
I had to make these parts from hard drawn brass angle and one of the operations required a square hole to be punche out on my fly press, a nine ton widow maker.
A fly press is one of those hand machines that has a handle with a ball at the end and this is rotated to drive the ram down.
On this particular night, the job had reached a thrilling stage where it only wanted a few more hours to do a bit of linishing and then delivery. So at 1.00AM I started to punch out the holes, 40 in all. It was dead quiet, swung the handle, down came the ram, KADOOMPKAKA!!!!!!!! and the next door neighbour's dog went woooofff wooooffff woooofff. Oh ****e, then dead silence, load another part, KADOOOMPKAKA!!!! WOOOOFFF WOOOOFFFF WOOOOFFFF. silence. This happened 40 times at 3 minute intervals.
Lucky to say my next door neighbour didn't bat an eyelid, and so I got it made and went off to bed.
One of the biggest problems with backyard manufacturing is getting rid of the waste material such as oily swarf. Usually when it gets to the point where you're employing people it's time to move and share a larger factoryette with someone else who'se compatible with your work process.
Definately to be avoided is the long lease on a share basis with another person that has a job that will clash with yours. Such as you're doing machining and assembly and down at the other end a guy is hammering away at a sawbench. Soon you can taste the wood dust in your sleep.
That's life. Getting there is the hard part, staying there is in the lap of your god.
Ian.

Hi thekm, I would avoid anything specialised unless your really geared up to hold your own. Starting out all you want to find is those low volume jobs that the big guys with their expensive,new CNC set-ups turn away because it takes more time to set up than actually producing.
OK so they are tedious and don't pay megabucks, but they are plentifull and they do make you productive. The big bonus is, down at your end of the dung heap you'll be working at home, this means no overheads apart from the bit of extra power you'll be using.
There are tons of people out there who are making things but don't have the expertise to do the machining from raw material. I made parts for a guy who sold table lamps and wall lamps to a retailer.
He didn't have any machining capacity, so I filled the gap in his chain and supplied whatever he needed and he did the finishing and plating etc, and we made a lot of music together.
I'm speaking from an engineering point of view but other industries have the same infrastructure.
I would never dream of getting involved with making something that everyone wants because this leads to every man and his dog getting in on the act and before you know it your cutting your own throat just to get the job.
That kind of stress on a small playing field is the pitts.
Before you even think of making something search the market to see if it is wanted. One item that is very desirable is brass namplates for homes.
OK so the big boys are doing this all the time, but you've got no overheads and once you get your unique style of patterns together another home based industry is born.
Ian.

I agree with Handlewanker 100%.. You have to find a Niche market/Item to manufacture and sell. As HW said there are items suitable for the Home based business and you have an advantage with low overheads etc...

Our business is based around a CNC router. We produce Boat kits and ship all over Australia and we are just about to appoint a distributor in New Zealand.

We have one employee. Not making heaps of money yet but it is a viable business.. www.capeboatworks.com.au

You need to do your research, knock on doors and most importantly ' Prepare a Business Plan'.. nothing fancy just put your ideas, marketing strategies on paper..

No 1 piece of advice... Take a Risk...

Most people are looking for the 100% secure option.. that is why they never do anything...

Forget the Security...look for the Opportunity.

now get out there and look for the opportunities... they are out there.

Cheers

Great advice Moondog. I completely concur. Those people that succeed are never the ones that took the sure thing. They had faith, hope, and courage.

It has been a wonderful experience over the last couple of months. I have been inspired by the people that I interact with. Initially, I had the impression that the metalworking industry was a dying dinosaur. In the larger caliber it is. However, people are using our machines and others to make a real, viable, profitable business in this field. Almost all of these people are focused, dedicated, and proud of their products, and are making real progress. Most it is their only business. They make a good living, and I will enjoy watching them grow. Go kick some butt!

Back in 2004 I was looking for something that would supplement my income. I followed a lot of on-line sites including this one. My background in machining is almost non existent, but have been around computer controlled items for a long time, liked working in wood and this seemed a natural progression. Biggest thing was that I felt competition would be low at the bottom end.

So, in October 2004 an opportunity to buy a "deal" on E-Bay started the black hole. My brothers stories about boats seem to become mine only with CNC. I bought more software than I could keep track of. The machine was European design with serial connection and suited for HPGL more than G-code.

After a ton of misadventures, in November of 2006 I am actually making things. Nothing complicated, but I can now control the machine.

My intention is the local "cute" or "wow" products that can be sold in a consignment store. On the list is to contact local jewelers to see if they want a logo put into boxes. The sign market is full of people with hand controlled routers that can do that. Could have gotten into custom cabinet door engraving, but jobs required capacity of 36" by 48" in order to do the larger doors of a set and mine is only 15" by 23".

I made a couple engraved university logo signs, but quickly got a registered letter from the school to quit or go to court. Luckily they were first tries and I didn't charge for them. Need to get some advise on Trademarks and Copyrights.

So, still looking for the product and probably behind $8 K without putting value on my time. Haven't given up yet or seen the tunnel light.

Man that seems similar to my situation .. I didn't spend as much on a machine and software but of course your time is not worth anything except the experience you gain ( hoping that you can havea good memory or ability to retain your exp) - when you start selling, and after the machine is paid for, then you get compensation on your gamble of time investment...

I think you must be able to do something that can be reproduced quickly - unless you are doing custom things, but it seems most people want those
nick nack knock offs that must be nearly mass produced ...


Back in 2004 I was looking for something that would supplement my income. I followed a lot of on-line sites including this one. My background in machining is almost non existent, but have been around computer controlled items for a long time, liked working in wood and this seemed a natural progression. Biggest thing was that I felt competition would be low at the bottom end.

So, in October 2004 an opportunity to buy a "deal" on E-Bay started the black hole. My brothers stories about boats seem to become mine only with CNC. I bought more software than I could keep track of. The machine was European design with serial connection and suited for HPGL more than G-code.

After a ton of misadventures, in November of 2006 I am actually making things. Nothing complicated, but I can now control the machine.

My intention is the local "cute" or "wow" products that can be sold in a consignment store. On the list is to contact local jewelers to see if they want a logo put into boxes. The sign market is full of people with hand controlled routers that can do that. Could have gotten into custom cabinet door engraving, but jobs required capacity of 36" by 48" in order to do the larger doors of a set and mine is only 15" by 23".

I made a couple engraved university logo signs, but quickly got a registered letter from the school to quit or go to court. Luckily they were first tries and I didn't charge for them. Need to get some advise on Trademarks and Copyrights.

So, still looking for the product and probably behind $8 K without putting value on my time. Haven't given up yet or seen the tunnel light.

Hi Steve, All dressed up and nowhere to go Huh? Here's a few ideas that might give you some outlets for your enthusiasm.
I now and then make parts for model steam railway engines, and the castings are the expensive bits, especially if the part is not a commercially available off the shelf model.
To get to the casting part you need a pattern and this can be quite complex in shape, and time consuming to make.
Just one item comes to mind and that is the wood patterns for cylinder and wheel castings with all the spokes etc.
If I had a CNC set-up on the smaller side I'd be looking at making patterns like these etc.
A bit of research as to the requirements and demand would pay off.
Once you have a set of patterns for a popular item you can make many castings from them and that is where the money would be made.
Ian.

Handlewanker,

I have heard of many people in hobbies that need CNC parts. Problem is that if you are not into the particular hobby, then you don't know what to produce. There is also the chance that you could miss a subtle feature that causes a real problem in performance or assembly. Then your reputation is shot.

I think the ideal is to come from the hobby to CNC and then return.

I used to travel to Iowa on business and there was a guy that had a half dozen steam engine contraptions on the front acre. When he would start one of them every so often, I could watch for hours.

Back to your idea, I will have to think on that. Metal casting will not work out too well in my neighborhood, but simple injection molding could. Cars haven't been in the garage in years.

Maybe that is another survey, how many people with CNC can park in their garage?

Hi Steve, I wouldn't contemplate doing the casting yourself in any form whatsoever.
Too much outlay and knowledge required, apart from the expertise with handling molten metal.
The type of castings I refer to are the intricate ones that take hours to produce the patterns for, and these are for scale models etc.
To do anything requires accumulating knowledge so that you can speak with authority.
There are quite a number of people who run small foundries and will carry out the type of work I mentioned.
Even if you've never seen a pattern for a casting or know what is required to produce one, it is essential to get to know what is required to make a pattern that a foundryman can work with.
The learning curve is how good you are in figuring out and finding out.
If you know of any model steam clubs or the like then go to one of their meets and see if it's something that you can relate to.
The fascination for old world steam engines is almost as bad as doing photography and that is a bug that bites deep and long.
There are many very skilled people out there that have vast amounts of machining knowledge and capability, but they still require the basic material to start with and that is a casting.
They also do not have the time or knowledge to make up a pattern, which for them is a one off job, to get the castings, so they buy them in.
I take it that you are geared up to work in wood, not metal, so with this in mind, patterns, which you would make and keep as the masters, would be used to produce castings to supply to the model trade, for popular models.
Choosing the type of casting would be the research aspect of the project.
It is quite time consuming to make a pattern, for example, a locomotive wheel casting, by hand, which has a lot of slender spokes and is usually built up with hand carved parts and is assembled and glued together, and further worked on to produce the finished master pattern.
With CNC the pattern is machined out and the program adjusted untill the finished item is good, unlike hand work which requires painstaking hand work to get to the end product right and no going back and doing it again.
The whole point is that you would not get much for the pattern if you were asked by someone for one, but you can use the pattern to produce many parts, over and over again.
A typical case is the Quorn tool and cutter grinder.
The set of castings for one of these machines cost something like $400 or $500 dollars, but the patterns once made would be worth only a 1/4 of this.
It would take time to build up an inventory for this type of work, but if the range is carefully selected then the world is literally at your beck and call by courtesy of the internet.
As a pattern maker you would become the artist in creating the original and the copies would be the money spinner.
Ian.

Great advice Moondog. I completely concur. Those people that succeed are never the ones that took the sure thing. They had faith, hope, and courage.

Man I hope thats true! At present my equipment list is at 20k and counting. And I haven't much storage room left. Thats not including my two big cnc babies as yet not built. Or the new house with my workshop.

I have no shortage of idea's swimming in my head. But getting properly equipped is certainly a task.

Good luck to me. :) Im on this road for the long haul.

do yuo think someone would buy this ?
chronon, I have to be honest and say that I dont know anybody who'd buy that sign. Nothing wrong with the idea and not because of that, possibly a niche market selling online if you dont charge too much per sign and think of enough slogans to offer, but its just the rough finish that I dont like. It has to look nice and feel like they got their moneys worth.

Can I share some thoughts I had looking at it?

1) Maybe buy two 20c brass rings and glue them onto the holes to make them more attractive. It'll take 20 seconds to glue up and you can add on $1 for the effort!

2) Dont make it square, cut it in a different more artistic shape.

3) Route the edges using a nice shaped bit.

4) Use your cnc routers abilities to add some form of texture to the surface.

5) Offer it in a variety of colours.

6) Most important: Nobody will buy from you if they dont know you exist. Get a website. Advertise in local papers. Whatever cheap advertising you can use to get your name out there do it. Make sure you get your web address into writing at every possible opportunity. Print some leaflets and ask shops can you stick them in their windows. etc etc


Just my thoughts. Hopefully in a year or two I'll be ticking box number 4 in this poll! :)

G'nite all.

Handlewanker,
Maybe that is another survey, how many people with CNC can park in their garage?

I'm consider myself lucky. The garage on the house I'm in isn't wide enough for my truck. I wasn't happy with this at first, but it does have a good side!! :) The space is ALL mine, Mine, MINE!!! (Insert evil laugh here)

alas, no money made here as of yet.
What a great experience cnc has been for me though!!
Getting into cnc was for the exclusive purpose of 'producing' those ideas that come up from time to time; and it's always fun to watch something you made from scratch move around productively all by itself.

P.S. Anyone wanna buy toilet seat with their name cut in it? lol

MUST READ FREE ONLINE BOOK ABOUT EARNING SOME MONEY ?
http://www.sherline.com/business.htm
Very Very Very nice and good reading book. You can call the earn money with your cnc handbook bible :D

Gtz.


GUIDE HINTS
1) Creating a new design or invention
2) Designing the components so they can be manufactured economically
3) Creating a complete set of production drawings with the aid of a CAD program
4) Deciding on the amount of inventory to build or purchase
5) Engineering what equipment will be used to manufacture the product
6) Writing instructions for these products
7) Coming up with an advertising and marketing strategy
8) Deciding on where and how large the business establishment should be
9) Deciding on what equipment to purchase
10) Deciding how many employees to hire and how much to pay them
11) Understanding the tax and accounting rules that affect your business

MUST READ FREE ONLINE BOOK ABOUT EARNING SOME MONEY ?
http://www.sherline.com/business.htm
Very Very Very nice and good reading book. You can call the earn money with your cnc handbook bible :DGtz.

Brunow, I have to concur, excellent advice. :) I downloaded the book a few months ago and read it twice in the space of about two days. Its a great book, and best of all its free! :)

I finally got my first mechanical parts purchase order.. 600 parts that are going into snowmaking machines. my primary focus with metalworking is artwork.. ..but since this is a business and I'm skilled enough with CAD and other graphic formats.. I'm able to breeze through design and production..

I'll tell anyone that has a CNC machine and isn't making money with it.. ..you need to stop playing with it and go out and make it known that you have it. There are companies all around farming out business to private machine shops.. you should be working constantly to be honest.

..that is.. if you're good enough!

"Quality, Price, and Speed. ..pick 2"

Congratz with your order!

How did you promote your shop? Do you have a tax number? ...

Congratz with your order!

How did you promote your shop? Do you have a tax number? ...


one foot in front of the other man.. you gotta get out and pound pavement :D

tax #.. my company is sole proprietorship right now.. but I plan on upgrading to LLC.. Limited Liability Corp.. that way all my PERSONAL ASSETS ARE PROTECTED... if *IF* anyone were to sue me, they could only take the Business's assets... ..and since all this gear is my own personal gear ON LOAN to my shop.... :D

yep..


and hey.. thanks a lot. I just got another call today for another bid on 5000 6 inch circles.. :P

:D

You might want to talk to a lawyer...

First of all, converting to an LLC later on is more of a pain than starting out as one.

Second, the lawyer might tell you the "personal equipment on loan" thing won't hold water. There is a concept of "undercapitalization" that allows a creditor to "pierce the veil" of your LLC. I dunno how that applies to loaned equipment. Maybe a lease? Anyways, you are in the territory of "needing a lawyer".

Congrats on the job!

-Jeff

Great news about the job. Well done! :) Im planning on starting out as a sole trader and then changine to a Limited Liability Company later on if/when I grow to need it....I'll have to look more into that aswell.

So far, I've earned an impressive $-1000.00

That is the approximate cost of the parts I've aquired for my router.

Which is still unbuilt.

But hey, after it's done, the sky's the limit!

$-2000, $-3000.00, ...

Hi, congratulations, money pouring in from all directions.
I hope you haven't made a workhorse out of your hobby horse.
When it starts out as an interesting way of converting good metal, (or wood) into swarf, and then the hours become a drag, take heart, it will either make you filthy rich or teach you the value of spare time doing nothing while reading a good book.
Best of luck, let us know what you are making.
BTW if the router is unbuilt, how did you make the money?
Ian.

well.. during the course of the week here I've picked up another client, and am waiting on a phone call from another potential referred to me, ..and then my steel supplier is keeping me in mind for stuff as well..

TALK TO YOUR PEOPLE!!! MAKE YOUR EXISTENCE KNOWN!!! YOU WILL START PROFITING!!!..

Keep in mind I'm not using a DIY system, and I'm not doing machining but plasma cutting.. ...point is.. if you build it, they'll freakin pay out the nose.

I am in the "My machine better make me money" catagory. Just invested $3000+ into my career/hobby and it has taken longer to learn the over all CNC procrss then I originally planned. All is going well now, finally getting some produces in my eBay Store and will be coming out with more almost on a weekly bases.

The great thing about converting over to CNC is 90% of the item's I wanted to make and sell were undoable because of how much time it would take me to make that item, to how much I could get back out of it. This formular is a "tight rope" balance. Although I've accomplished this for over 2 1/2 years, I realized I could only work long enough/fast enough (manually) to supply my customers with their order, with no time left to come out with new designs and new products for my customers or myself (the hobby side :)). It was all business, and no play. CNC will hopefully open up my time to be used in different aspects of my career/hobby.

I am in the "My machine better make me money" catagory. Just invested $3000+ into my career/hobby and it has taken longer to learn the over all CNC procrss then I originally planned. All is going well now, finally getting some produces in my eBay Store and will be coming out with more almost on a weekly bases.

The great thing about converting over to CNC is 90% of the item's I wanted to make and sell were undoable because of how much time it would take me to make that item, to how much I could get back out of it. This formular is a "tight rope" balance. Although I've accomplished this for over 2 1/2 years, I realized I could only work long enough/fast enough (manually) to supply my customers with their order, with no time left to come out with new designs and new products for my customers or myself (the hobby side :)). It was all business, and no play. CNC will hopefully open up my time to be used in different aspects of my career/hobby.

just wait til you've invested $25,000 in all your equipment with $1,100 minimum going out each month to pay your rent and power... This is definitely NOT a game.. It all breaks down to *time* ..I got my CNC plasma system for precision and mass production... ..now I've had to spend another $2250 on a new plasma cutter so I can cut these simple shapes out of thicker materials.. I have put "play" aside for the time being and I'm focused on catering to customers... it's all about that repeat business. There's a LOT of work involved in what we do here, and it's not even art!! ..well.. maybe a little. Bottomline, it's a hard and dirty job, but the return is incredible when you know you're your own boss and the money you're making is your own. But back to the original point....

TIME. ..example.. it would take my guys a few hours to chip all the slag nice and clean.. @$10x2 ...well.. it only made sense to spend some money on wire wheels so they could get done faster/cleaner.

my old Powermax 380 can cut 10 gauge @ 57 inches a minute. ...my new Powermax 1000 can cut 10 gauge @ over 250 inches a minute. worth it? ...every freakin penny.

As others have said, if you want work, you have to put yourself out there. I don't have a CNC machine yet, but I have been picking up little jobs for years.
I paid for my first lathe cutting back stay insulators for yachts out of acetal. All handmade form tools to make a profit, and a steep learning curve. Later I got a contract socketing steel pipes. I bought a huge knackered lathe and beat it to death ramming dies into steel pipe. There has been a few other jobs, mostly by talking to small business owners who want stuff done but can't afford "real engineers" prices. Making components like this is a great way to upskill yourself, and figure out production methods.

Eventually, you need your own product, and must decide where you want to sit on the price/volume curve. Selling cheap things means making lots of sales. Selling expensive things means finding customers. As an example, you could churn out those dinosaur slot together kitsets, package them nicely and get a nice little wholesale business going. High volume, low price. Or you could start making reproduction furniture from a particular period. High price, low volume.

Find a need and fill it. Then make sure you tell everyone you have the magic solution.

Hi all, as Gboyd so rightly said, you eventually have to make your own product, otherwise you just scratch about odd jobbing for the lowest quote.
The first rule of selling is:- Find out what the customer wants and then make sure he gets it.
So if you're going to make something it has to be either a Rolls Royce ashtray holder, solid silver with all the hand cut filligree work or a plastic teabag squeezer.
Either way there will be a significant outlay if you want to manufacture and market the product as your sole occupation, and this means telling the world you are a supplier.
The advertising bit is the hard part.
While you can pump the goods out in quantity you still have to shift them.
What starts out as a way to control your life often starts to control your life.
Some years ago I started a $50 business, and went down the path of making some money on the side in spare time as a sub-contractor.
Pretty soon it became apparent that a centre lathe just couldn't be used to make batch quantities of 500 parts at a time.
I "invested" in an old capstan lathe, dating before WW 2, for $150.
This really got things moving, and as HSS tooling was available pretty cheaply, it wasn't long before 15hour working days become a reality.
The original job spawned a lot of spinoffs and various people came and went, making money in the process.
After that I made brass table lamp fittings for a mate who supplied a local retailer, and this led onto another mate who was factory manager for a firm who made brass airline fittings.
The whole show lasted for 7 years, till I retired.
I will admit that I was just scratching the surface of the metal working industry as a producer, but as I am a skilled tradesman, it was exciting to see the cheques come in for several thousand dollars at a time.
All of this added to my gross income, and so it meant that you were paying tax at the top end, but there were still a lot of deductions to make it worth while.
Working from home, in the garage, meant no workshop rental, so most of the outgoings were for materials and power.
The important thing is to source the work and then buy the equipment, and if you are new to manufacturing, don't give up your day job.
Ian.

I purchased a CNC machine from RomaxxCNC.com. I use it to cut parts that I used to cut by hand using various shop machines. I now manufacture about 200% faster!

I purchased a CNC machine from RomaxxCNC.com. I use it to cut parts that I used to cut by hand using various shop machines. I now manufacture about 200% faster!

Sorry to jump in this thread, but can you give us your experience with the machine and company so far? What is the quality of the router and customer service?

Thank you!

I am still building my first machine, I am trying to get me feet wet. In short I am intending to make money out of it.

wow I would love the chance to do some side work. Things are very slow here. I run a cnc lathe. And I just want to keep buisy.

So who built their CNC Mill/Router/Lathe and is making money with it?

I AM!! :banana: :D

I have a very small CNC mill which I use to make enclosures for Nixie clocks that I also build. Sometimes the CNC is used to cut holes in die cast or extruded boxes, and other times I use the mill to completely mill out enclosures from exotic hardwoods.

It doesn't make nearly as much as my old job, but I sure do enjoy it a lot more. :)

Feel free to check it out at www.tubeclock.com (http://www.tubeclock.com).

ive build every traub and index machine www.index-werke.de :D build also each part seperate.. like to buy one in the future

I started designing my machine in March. It should start making money in December.

Hey all , I am new in using CNC,s , not by buying one but by wishing , so please tell me guys which the cheapest way to have one , my bussiness field is in car accessories , how can I use it in manufacturing wheels ?

I made a home made cnc and it has been a lot of fun making it. Figure total invested not including time is around $800. Began making signs and selling them on Ebay and bulk orders to gift shops. So far it has paid for the machine but not the time element. But thats OK I find it relaxing and fun. Don't quit your day job is good advice.

More important than just making money... Is it making ENOUGH money. Sounds like a few guys have managed to find their niche and have the skill to take advantage but the vast majority is just having fun and spending money.

With any endeavor - it's fun until it's paying the bills. Making a few hundred on the side is nothing compared to making the mortgage payment, feeding the kids and even with insurance the dentist is pretty darn expensive! Lets not forget, the wife has a standard of living she expects ;-)

Hi all, wether or not it pays is dependent on the amount of effort you apply.

That is to say, if you rely on the home job to be your sole income source, how much do you commit to getting a return?

There are lots of stories of people that work in home workshops, some making a bundle and some working two jobs.

I don't think you can compare to a paid job with a regular paycheck that pays all the bills and still lets you go away for a holiday each year, that is unless you're in a market that no one else has thought of and only you have the know how to do with a weekly work span of 40 hours or less.

Working for yourself means you need to have minimum outgoings, otherwise you need a workload that keeps you busy 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

There's not many jobs out there that pay that kind of money on the open market, otherwise there'd be a queue a mile long and we'd all be millionaires.

The biggest problem is getting started and quitting your day job.

As a hypothetical situation, how many people can get $20,000 together to get tooled up and start producing, that is if you already have a work plan that will show a return on the $20,000 more than you could earn if you just left it in the bank to earn investment interest.

Next, what can you get for your 20 grand, apart from the rental on a factory with the overheads that incurs.

So it might be that $50,000 is the starting price......where does it lead on to?
Work from home, with a welder, oxy/acc set and an old lathe, total outlay $6,000?

This has got to return you at least 30 or 40 grand per year to just survive, almost a grand a week before bills and living expenses break even.

If the work is not there, like a man walking on the beach picking up "treasure" you'll starve.

Starting your own product line by inventing and making yourself is one way to get a regular income source, provided you find that something that everyone wants and no one has thought of.
Ian.

My hats off to those entreprenuers who are able to run a home business while maintaining a good life style. Added to the considerations others have listed below one has to think of health care, retirement, sick leave...

As everyone knows medical insurance isn't cheap and it isn't going to get cheaper unless of course Hillary or Obama can perform healthcare miracles. ...cough cough cough... Obviously I'm pessimistic about our presidential candidates one and all.

Retirement means saving at least 10-15% of what you make for your golden years. So that has to come off the top or you may well die with your boots on trying to get out a last minute order.

Sick or injured? What if something happens and you are injured? Who will run the shop while you are in the hospital? All of a sudden family income could be at a standstill.

For me I'll stick with the daytime job. I like a steady paycheck, insurance, and matching contributions for retirement. A couple bucks on the side here and are always welcome but the idea of laying out 10-50K to start a home based business seems a bit risky...

OOOOH, all those hidden extras, commonly known as "the cold hard light of day".

You're right about the regular paycheck part, unless you hit the right button like many do and become part of employer/employee kick butts and have a key for the executive toilet retire on a golden handshake scenario.

The initial outlay is the hard part.

Anyone who commits their own hard earned money to a scheme is nuts.

By this I mean if you indulge in an enterprise and fund it by mortgaging yourself up to the hilt, pawning the family jewels etc, you are in effect risking your funds, whereas you really only want to make the parts, sell them and get a return for your sweat.

This is where an investor comes in, someone who has money that they can afford to gamble with, that will show a good return for the risk factor.

To most people this is like having someone's hand in your back pocket siphoning off the cream while you do the work, but in reality it is they who stand to lose if the enterprise goes pear shaped.

Far better to come up with a good idea and get investment dollars to float the enterprise.

I often equate going into business as going to sea in a leaky boat, most times cash is always the problem, and being overfunded, that is borrowing more than you need is as bad as not having enough to pay the crew until the work is finished.

How many times I got caught up with a customer that wouldn't settle until they were paid by someone else being paid by someone else, three months was not rare.
Ian.

And sometimes you find three months down the road a multinational company is deadbeat when it comes to paying the little guy. Harder to get bucks from the big boys than the little fish it seems. In the end I decided to just make things I enjoy making. Design some one off Ohhs and Ahhs for the bike market, machine them BEFORE YOU SELL THEM and then do it again.

A problem in the bike market is fellows coming up with an idea or offering work, then getting sick or over extended. Sometimes they don't quote a job right due to naivte. Sometimes weather like the huricanes down in Florida. What ends up happening is a LOT of irate folks bad mouthing you and there goes your name down the tubes. No thanks. Seen this happen to more than a few.

Small exclusive runs. Product made before announced. Let em fight for the few peices you toss em. If you're lucky you'll break even with a bit to spare. You sure won't get rich right off the bat.

Like it has been said before, if you are in the jobbing shop one off business you really don't have an idea if the other party is going to pay up or not.

Usually the other party has a pay policy of 30 days, (if your lucky), but three months is not unknown, which means they've got your "money" in their pocket before they decide to pay out.

I usually demand payment on the spot for one off jobs, especially with the smaller operators, unless the company is known to me and has a good reputation.

For work that is a regular feature from the same company then you have to abide by their pay policy, otherwise you could lose a customer by an offensive attitude.
Ian.

After about a year and a half , some money is coming in . It has been a little bit of a learning curve . But not too bad.

Hello everybody:I,m looking for a wood cnc mac apx $ 40.th ,any help I used a thermwood 45 ok, but to much money. any help ?

In a previous post someone said they were making money with their machine. Their post shows a domain name of-

http://www.benchrestjoystick.com

Looks like his domain went belly-up. It's an "Adsense spam site" now.

Too bad... I'd have liked to see the product he sold.

I have a friend who owns a machine shop so he has given me stuff that he doesn't want to do. Started with a Birmingham 9 x 20 lathe. I know the 9 x 20 according to alot of people is junk however it has done me well. I have been able to buy a Dyna Myte 3000h, an Enco mill, and a Wade turret lathe all paid for by my 9 x 20 lathe. So with all the negative talk going on about machines and the economy don't believe it work hard think large.

In a previous post someone said they were making money with their machine. Their post shows a domain name of-

http://www.benchrestjoystick.com

Looks like his domain went belly-up. It's an "Adsense spam site" now.

Too bad... I'd have liked to see the product he sold.

Be careful that link has adware, and maybe some other harmful things.

My circumstances may be a little different I think. I came up with an idea for table saw blade guards. They started selling right out the door on the internet using just word of mouth on Woodworking Forums. Initially it was just part time of course and no cnc involvement. When I started getting behind in orders three and four weeks, then I found the zone and realized my next logical step was cnc. That started a long learning curve, but certainly helped me to produce much more. About two years ago, I was able to quit my full time job because the part time work I was doing was more profitable. I still have an 8 week lead time and have three cnc machines working for me. My son is also helping out part time now as well.
I have never spend any money on advertising, but have given some guards away as contest wins, samples for review and hard luck situations.
I have been contacted by some larger companies, clubs and magazines now about the product. I am always looking for ways to increase production as well. Hiring more people I think may be my next logical step. I am however working on another larger shed that will house the cnc machines. This would give an employee a shop that we could both work in.
My main shop now is only 16' by 16' with a couple other small sheds attached. I will keep the woodworking tools in the small shop and all cnc in the larger 18' by 22' steel shop.

I never expected to be doing this when I first made the prototype.
Find a needed product. Make it using the best materials you can. Build a name for yourself and the product. Keep improving the product by research and listening to customers feedback.
Answer all emails timely.
Make use of the Global market using the internet. Have confidnce in what you are doing a providing.
Then make plans to do something else if the bottom does ever fall out. Remember, not all your eggs should go in one basket. :)

Do I make money.....hmmm thats an intresting question. I have made and sold pottery tools for about the last 4 years as a side job. All my sales have been on the internet and I had to pull back on the reins abit after the 1st year because I was working about 18 hour days non stop. About 2 years ago my hands and eyes started to get oldman problems so I decided I need to automate some of the process to make production easier. It took about a year to divert enough money to build my cnc router. Not knowing exactly how I was going to use it, I over sized it. Looking back I could have made a smaller one and saved a bunch on the investment. I have been using it for about a year now and it has made my life alot easier. I don't know if its paid for itself yet but what the hell (its fun to watch). :)

Dan

snip.....I over sized it. Looking back I could have made a smaller one and saved a bunch on the investment. I have been using it for about a year now and it has made my life alot easier. I don't know if its paid for itself yet but what the hell (its fun to watch). :)

Dan

Your the only person EVER who I've seen post that their machine is too big! :D

I wish I had a day job!

I am making a few $100 here and there. There definately is and has been a strain for many years now on U.S. manufactures. I here alot of struggles and some triumphant stories here, but what is everbody making? Wheres the ideas? I have access to 2 buildings full of all loads of equipment, problem is ideas. A usefull thread would be " Your ideas I can use to make money".