I'd like to make a 24"x48" printable area cnc printing machine. I'd like to use a full color head mounted on my machine to print on material? Is this possible, to cannibalize a plotter and make it work? :drowning:

What ever happened to that guy who was making a CNC painting machine? Maybe he learned some tips that you can used.

I'd like to make a 24"x48" printable area cnc printing machine. I'd like to use a full color head mounted on my machine to print on material? Is this possible, to cannibalize a plotter and make it work? :drowning:

There are 2 little rovers driving around on a planet 50 million miles away..

What's not possible?

Practical.. Now that's a word... :)

Murphy

I'd look for an old large format printer ( I've seen encad 36" on ebay for as low as 100.00 ) Rip it apart and change the drive system. Only realy problem you'll have with printheads is that the majority are thermal ( water based inks ) you can however get pigment mased inks that are water proof. But water based inks will only stick to something that can absorm them. Some of the newer printer use the Epson print heads which are piezo and can there for use solvent based inks that will stck to almost anything.

What ever happened to that guy who was making a CNC painting machine? Maybe he learned some tips that you can used.
Vacpress? I think he did a runner because he made lots of noise but didnt finish anything. I also make lots of noise and dont finish much either. I just hang around afterwards and look stupid instead.

I guess I am now in the same boat. I just bought a plotter and fistly will make it into a vinyl cutter. This sould be easy. The next task will be to make a detachable head so I can then put a printer head on it.

I dont expect any mechanical problems in doing any of this. The only real dramas I expect are somehow getting a software driver for it. I expect this will mean writing code to drive it. Something I know nothing about. Oh well, here goes another steep learning curve for me, or another red face.

What brand of plotter? Most will accept HPGL drivers. Except Calcomp.

If you can solve this mystery in an economical manner you will have almost solved another problem. How to direct print PCBs. Even better with PCBs is that it only needs one colour to act as a mask for the etching process.
Reading between the lines, I'd say Paul wants to use this machine to print parts (foam) output from his laser so therefore it will need to be a flat bed style (i.e. gantry based) to give it height as required. I'd imagine HPGL2 or similar to drive it. The idea of canabalising an existing printer or plotter and transfering everything on to a gantry style machine seems like way to go.
"print on material" = material as in cloth OR as in unspecified materials?

What brand of plotter? Most will accept HPGL drivers. Except Calcomp.

It is a Schlumberger model 1835 S ( sounds like a German hamburger to me)

So far I havnt been able to find drivers for it.
I have googled extensivly too.

I am not that fussed really, since in might just go down the conventional cnc path with it and put a stepper card on it and bypass all the other crap.
All the same if any one does know of where to get drivers for it, I would appreciate that.

I will post a pic of it 2 morrow. Not very exciting to look at though.

ynneb
http://www.winline.com/evalpen.html
http://www.driverzone.com/drivers/schumberger/

Thanks Jan, I had seen these links b4.
The driverzone link tells me to use HP drivers, but HP no longer has then on the internet.
The wine link is a program that costs more than 300 bucks and It doesnt have a trail version so I dont even know if it will work.

But thanks so much for trying to help me though :)

Wasn't their a comercial product that already did this? Or maybe it just printed on wall. See if you can find the web sight and see if they have user forums. Ask a few questions. See what people have to say.

Also the z distance, I see that as the big problem. Any fex or warp in thin material might change the z distance and you might have problems with the image getting fuzzy.

Wasn't their a comercial product that already did this? Or maybe it just printed on wall. See if you can find the web sight and see if they have user forums. Ask a few questions. See what people have to say.

Also the z distance, I see that as the big problem. Any fex or warp in thin material might change the z distance and you might have problems with the image getting fuzzy.

There is quite possibly commercial items to do what we want. But the spirit is doing it yourself, and doing it far cheaper than comercial products.

You will notice that cncadmin mentioned canibalizing a plotter and putting a print head on it, I am just consdiering to put a cutting knife on my conversion. Similar conversions, just different uses.

As far as the material flex you mentined, most plotters have a suction fan that pulls the material flat directly under the printer / plotter/ cutter head. Also the heads themselves are usually spring loaded so as to float across the material, and kept at the exact dristance for doing thier tasks.

Here are the exciting pictures as promised.
It amazes me that you can buy a unit like this for 100 bucks ( working)
and you need to spend many thousands for a similar item just because it has a printer head or vinyl cutter knife on it.
Maybe I should start a new thread and turn my conversion into a project log ?
I guess it doesnt really fit as a woodworking router though. ( A moderators nightmare :) )

Problem is ink won't stick to vinyl. If you can find one, Encad made a NovaCut printer/vinyl back in the early 90s 24" or 36" but ya gotta use specially coated vinyls as it uses a water based ink. I was experimenting with a novajet using outdoor pigment based ink and regular vinyl. By heating the vinyl first ( I used long heating elements attached to a aluminum platform at the back and another placed inside the printer right under where the vinyl comes out of the print head ) By heating the vinyl and thus opening up the pores the pigments in the ink get stay in the pores after the water has evaporated. It does work well but getting the correct ratios of ink and vinyl temp takes forever. eventually I'll give it another try. I think encad now makes a printer that does the same thing, pre heat the vinyl and they use Heatlamps to cure it.

Ok, let me get this straight, your gonna take a color printer apart and turn it into a ....color printer? I kinda see what your after, but wouldn't it be easier to find an old HP plotter and use it as it is? In other words, what advantage would a home made gantry be over a standard plotter?

I recently purchased a working HP Designjet 450c plotter at a trade school auction. To get the HP I had to buy another plotter in the same lot. It is a Calcomp Designmate, and I can't find any model number. It is a 36" plotter and has a pen carosel that holds several pens. Anyone have any idea what I can make out of it?
It would be neat if I could make a vinyl cutter out of it. Any experts out there who could give me some advise?

Thanks,

Jim

Well it seems to me that if you have a plotter...you should be able to discard the drum and use the mechanism to move a table under the print head...do you get the picture??

LOL @ all the comments. Somehow I think I have confused this thread by inserting my activities.
Originally CNCadmin metioned coverting a plotter to use as a printer. So I thought adding my project would be simmilar but not the same.
CNCadmin wants to put an inkjet head on his plotter and remove the existing pen.
I just want to put a knife on mine and use it to cut out vinyl lettering. But not print on it.
The only reason I posted in this thread was because they were both plotter conversions.

Maybe if a moderator could do me a favor and split this thread, since I dont have the ability to do that. You could title my thread " Plotter conversion to vinyl cutter"

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

Ok, let me get this straight, your gonna take a color printer apart and turn it into a ....color printer?
No Halfnutz, the machine is currently a pen plotter ( It draws but does not print) Maybe you are young and have never seen a pen plotter b4? :)

No, I wish I were young, but I'm not. I used to use a plotter occasionally, but forget most of what I knew. I remember plotting text though as part of the hpgl. But I get what your after now. Yes it would be nice, if you can do it. It seems like the software will be the hardest part. I have a bad habbit of reading the first page of a thread and then commenting, forgetting to read the rest of the thread first.

Benny, Now I'm confused! It looks like I misunderstood too. Paul said: "I'd like to make a 24"x48" printable area cnc printing machine. I'd like to use a full color head mounted on my machine to print on material?" As 24" x 48" is the size of Pauls new laser, I therefore assumed when he said "my machine", he was refering to his laser. When he said "Is this possible, to cannibalize a plotter and make it work?" I assumed he meant stealing bits from a plotter to put on his machine to make a printer. This was why I added my earlier comments about a gantry style printer for PCBs. I had the feeling that RGillam was thinking the same with his comments. Anyway, if we are NOT refering to a gantry set up then it's: "Sorry guys for adding to the confusion!"

You are correct Skippy!

Well Paul, most plotters are Pen or Electrostatic...so those heads won't work....I would look at getting a print head from an ink-jet printer.

ok.. here

to direct print a pcb, put a pcb mask pen(sharpie) in your CNC Z axis, and directly print a PCB. thats easy.

also, i am still sorta around.. i had a broken heart,and have run off to europe for the last 6 or 7 months... so ihavent been around. i will be back soon to continue talking big and only sometimes finishing...

to see some stuff,

www.clockworkchicago.com/robert.htm

ciao

oh, also.. i would imagine it is nearly impossible to reuse a HP or Epson or similar inkjet head to make a large format printer. im not positive, but unless you are a hardcore software\hardware engineer with access to the firmware that controlls these things and probably advanced microchip\PGA programming skills, you will not do it... making a print head is an option, but that would also be very difficult, and the output will never come close to an epson or HP print head.. those things are extremely well engineered.. many very tiny parts and decades of design experience went into them... the best option might be to convert a regular paper printer to a flatbed printer, to print on wood or plastic, or whatever.. non flexible mediums. this would be much easier,then you just have to trick the thing into thinking that it has grabbed a piece of paper, etc... it might be possible to do this with no software knowledge... the hard part wil be getting the gantry mounted level... inkjet printers are precision devices, i know, i spent 4 years repairing printing equipment.. aligning a messed up inkjet can border on futile.

hope it helps.

robert

Vaccy, great to have you pop back in from time to time. I know that I and many others have missed your enthusiasm, even at times certain individuals have written in posts that they wonder where, and how you are.

Yep I remember the youthful days of broken hearts and doing extremely silly things just impress a girl. There is little to stop that heart from hurting other than time.

Go on do some more inspiratonal drawings for us. I remember we joined here at similar times and I used to always enjoy your drawings. Im hanging out for more sleepless nights thinking and wondering how your ideas could be made into reality.

Go on spoil me one more time :)

And here I was thinking you had gone to work for Nokia after seeing your last post from Sweden (I think??)?

I "second" what Ynneb said.

I'm new to the cnczone forums, and am VERY interested in helping with CNC printing. I am a clothing designer and producer, and have a direct and immediate use for this in my applications for production and prototyping.

I am interested in pursueing cnc airbrush applications, and am currently designing a system that will use an airbrush for vectorized graphics. I have read alot in these forums and found alot of abandond projects, or ideas just talked about.

I plan to develop a standard cnc machine, using the "Z" axis in a double action airbrush, the Z would be the ink distribution %.

Does anyone know of any more completed projects?

It would appear that the toughest part would be the software to determine from a drawing the width of the spray pattern.

I want to make a straight-up cnc airbrush first. X,Y axis w/ a set depth away from the surface, using the z-axis to control the amount of paint sprayed. From there, I can re/evaluate the project to determine the next course of action - so that I dont spend 4+ months talking about this in a forum while nothing gets done and project gets abandond.

I have read alot in these forums and found alot of abandond projects, or ideas just talked about.

so that I dont spend 4+ months talking about this in a forum while nothing gets done and project gets abandond.

He he, well I guess you can always spend 10s of thousands buying a comercial unit instead.
This forum is like a think tank, where we mute ideas with each other. It comes with no guarantees that you will get the complete set of instructions. Many here do finish projects. They do this by reading, asking, sorting and sifting ideas with each other. Par of the thrill of this sort of forum is beating the systemby building your own machine for a fraction of the price of a commercial one. If a person descides its all too hard, or not really going to be worth the effort, then so be it. There is no obligation to finish it, or even start it, after talking about it.

I think you will find that the majority of members here manage to culminate the information here and make a machine to suit thier purposes.

As far as I know there is only a printer style painter that has been created, and this guys only sells the finished machine without instructions of how to build one.

If You bother to look arond this forum you will see a heap of finished machines that members have built. I wonder if you will finish this project?

Bet you dont.

Good luck with FINISHING your CNC Airbrush. :)

Oh I'm aware of how forums work and appreciate all this collected information here. Its of good use!

I'm a programmer, and an airbrush artist. I lack the hardware / machinist skills, but I am learning real fast. And programming these motor controls, w/ speed and timing doesnt seem that different from the timeing I use when writing code for animations and dances used in video games.

So I feel pretty confident about writing my own software to drive control arms to mimic my own human arm movement.

And was pondering the idea of using motion capture hardware. A mouse has an x and y axis, and I can capture the movement from that with ease. Mounting the encoders to the same wheels of the unit itself, with a handle - and the scroll-wheel to record the "Z" (or spray) is definately something possible. So by that method, I would "train" the unit to draw a picture, record - and then just play it back on the steppers.

So I feel pretty confident about writing my own software to drive control arms to mimic my own human arm movement.

Sound like you need to be making a robot arm instead of an X Y Z machine.
This way you will get much better arm simulation than with linear machines.
Most macines that spray vehicals are robot arms and not linear machines.

Instead of programming the input via mouse, You would be better to have the input/programming encoders on the machine itself. That way you would be able to record your actions in the real world first hand.
Just a thought.

Ynneb;

I'm sorry - I MEANT to explain; that it's easy to cannibalize a mouse and put the encoders on ANY surface to record ANY movement and speed. I would put the encorders on the machine itself and operate it as if it were an extension of my hand. Just the lag of the steppers would interfear with the movement, I would have to make clutches on all axis.

------------


I DO have a leftover arm-robot I bought from an abandond project from ebay for like $20. I feel once after I get more acclaimed to machining, I could adapt the service for use on the arm-robot too; since itself is also a 3 axis machine.

Ynneb;

I'm sorry - I MEANT to explain; that it's easy to cannibalize a mouse and put the encoders on ANY surface to record ANY movement and speed. I would put the encorders on the machine itself and operate it as if it were an extension of my hand. Just the lag of the steppers would interfear with the movement, I would have to make clutches on all axis.



And the purpose of this is to record movements? If that's the case then the surface stylus on this forum would not work and since you're working in 2 1/2 dimensions....the robotic arm would require that you disable it's ability to rotate a joint....

good luck!

Regarding electrostatics. I understand powder-coating magnetizes material positive or negative, and pushes thru air and attaches to a surface with the reverse polarity.

If I have a negative magnet on the back side slide side to side, and the print head is a positively charged stream of spray, will it automatically go directly to the magnet head and trap itself to the surface between it? Like if it were thing canvas - the paint or ink would just magnetically go to the magnet on the reverse side?

Does anyone have experience or knowledge about electrostatics can advise?

That's the idea for powder coating, lazer printers Zerox style copiers. With print heads that use ink there is no need for electrostatics as the ink is wet and it will stick on anything in it's flight path.

while i am not sure you can use such a technique to directly make 3d parts, there is a interesting idea that ive read about.. i think its been built to prototype stage.. anyhow this is how it works:

1. a laser printer prints a cross section of a 3d model on a sheet of acrylic film

2. the film is advanced over a thin pool of UV curing polymer.

3. a bright light exposes the thin layer of polymer through the acrylic mask

4. the pool of polymer gets filled to just higher than before, and another mask is printed and moves over the pool

5. the light exposes the parts and it is again flooded with a thin layer of polymer.


this idea is being explored commercially somewhere, by some inventor type.. to me it wastes alot of acrylic sheeting... it is also similar to another interesting rapid prototype method..

1. a 3d model is cut into slices.

2. a plotter holding adhesive backed paper, and holding a xacto, cuts the cross sections.

3. a bored person peels the slices and adheres them to one another.

4. finish like a wooden model...

this has the advantages of creating geometry no 3d milling machine could... the disadvantages are numerous and obvious, but the main one is that it will never work for many forms, and the models must then be finished with more traditional model-making techniques. plus its time intensive.


i still think using hacked inkjet hardware and software along with a z-corp style power binder would work.. the other option is to design and build a atomizer or simialr inkjet head.. this is also possible. especially because you could almost certainly get someone here with an accurate cnc mill to cut the small parts free or cheaply.. the parts would machine very quickly because it would mostly be small channels and nozzles in a tiny piece of brass or something.

all right, good luck..

robert

When I worked for ASCOM / HASLER, their mailing machines were liscensed to use the HP INKJET technology. They had HP heads mounted on their address-label machines, w/ hp driver boards.

All hasler did was make the frame and motors that move the head and advance the letters, in a high-speed production way.

When I worked for ASCOM / HASLER, their mailing machines were liscensed to use the HP INKJET technology. They had HP heads mounted on their address-label machines, w/ hp driver boards.

All hasler did was make the frame and motors that move the head and advance the letters, in a high-speed production way.


That is great, maybe a good solution for adapting the head to my laser machine.

vacpress;

I dont know what's going on here maybe I am in the wrong forum thought. I thought this was the forum for cnc-painting/imaging. What you're talking about is 3d cutting / sculpting - am I wrong?

-----

Regarding your UV curing polymer: I visited the COUNTY community college, and met with the professor. Pretended as if I were interested in a "program" to help me learn how to machine stuff, and that I didnt know what a drill press did. He was happy to show me around the shop and demo the equipment I "might get to use one day if I get close, 2 or 3 years after I start the program".

Their super-advanced top of the line 3d prototype builder, does that exact same thing - that you are explaining, except it does not use an acetate positive or negative.

Here is YOUR LAST KEY vacpress- if you do this, then you will have a replica of that 500,000 k machine:

----
The machine has a high-power uv laser beam tiny DOT that runs x & y. the polymer sits in a big vat in the machine. the uv laser will burn out it's layer, rasterizing from side to side then going from front to back. Once done, it PUSHES the stack up, and wipes away the unused liquid. Ther solid is left alone. Then after it pushes up (the Z AXIS), the machine starts its process again and laser's out another layer from the liquid. Then it will push-up once again & repleats until project is complete.

There was some type of mesh underneath the layer, I believe - that prevented the UV laser beam from going all the way down to the bottom of the liquid vat.

Best my memory recalls, the machine probably handled a 12 x 17 area - that was filled with the liquid uv-reactive goo.

-
The end result is a very strong solid polymer plastic (or resin I dont know what that "goo" is but he said it was REALLY expensive and reacted to UV- light and turned itself into a solid once the laser-beam it it). prototype totally in 3d and very super high resolution, that really didnt need any finishing up afterwords. It could do tiny little logo lettering, or whatever - it made little plastic buckles, spool loaders, and machine - dies & punches, or templates.

No, vacpress...just added some additional sorta unrelated info..

CNCadmin - if you are interested, I would research HP, AND ALSO research TEXAS INSTRUMENTS. HP MIGHT be stingy with their technology, only liscensing the use of their developer boards to only large established companies. But when they stand to make money reselling the use of their technology, it - is how hasler was able to make the deal happen.

I have found that TEXAS INSTRUMENTS is very helpful in helping new small or large developers with the developer interface boards, controllers, etc.... and its very possible they have developed their own inkjet atomizing technology that works the same way HP, epson, cannon, and all the other inkjet manufacturers use.

----

I have read articles in popular science and mechanics magazines, there are high-end labratories experimenting on using the ink-jet rasterizing technology to mould prototypes. The articles explain how ANYTHING can be atomized, rasterized, and shaped - demoing how children build SAND CASTLES, is the same way an ink-jet head filled with a super strong liquid resin prints micro pinpoints to a surface on a matrix, and once they hit the surface it fuses and solidifies instantly.

So instead of putting ink into inkjet cartridges, they can fill them with glue that solidifies, or a polymer acid that etches, or - in the article, it read that they were filling it with biological matter cells to re/create bone structures, with capelaries and skin.

The machines print the bottom layor, then layor after layer till the top.

The articles mentions how a large house is actually making a system where you build the frame on an empty plot of land, and some wicked large cnc-crane comes and drops chemically remastered quick-dry cement to form the structure of a house, walls, window etc.... For window frames, it would plop down some type of strong foam that supported the structure until it reached the head of the top, and then a crew would come in with a chemical that burnt away the foam, to deliver a complete structure w/ doorways and windows, that was a complete solid fused as one.

i was momentarily confused. i forgot what i was responding to

:)

yes. the uv laser machines are very expensive, and so is the materials that they use... i beleive an average aprt made on such a machine is around 50-100us... just material cost.. crazy..

sorry for the off topicness.. i realized it and pasted the same text into a new thread.. so.. disregard.

cheers.

oh. also of note, since ive destroyed to original topic... the z-corp machines use HP print heads also.. basically a modified inkjet head.. i beleive they made it spray a bit more fluid out, to better bind the plaster substrate.

ah. back on topic...

i just read the post about high-speed mailing machines using HP heads and driver boards to print on mail.. i have also read about this, in a engineering industry magazine (free.. go get them. they are great.. and free)

anyhow, lots of other machines use this idea.. mainly in mail and in warehouse stock management.. there is a handheld version you hold up against a box and it uses a inkjet technology to quickly mark it.. it can do little graphics..

in another thread i mentioned the posibility of just using an inkjet's entire system to do 3d prototyping.. all you have to do is add a bit of code somewhere to lower the platform and make a new layer of plaster binding material.. or starch.. or whatever... also a working idea is a machine that uses 10-second, 2-part epoxy.. that way it can lay down a layer with a accurate extruder head, wait a few seconds, and then lay another..

there are lots of ways..

DrStein, any news on ur airbrush robot arm ??? i m very interested infact, since i m also an airbrusher....

I've read from a forum that there was actually a robot airbrusher in Disney. It spray vertically and it can spray "freehand" sharp edges like certain computer fonts and also human-like strokes such as dagger stroke and glow effect....

How's the progress? i was thinking the same thing weeks before too... but i aint any expert but appreciate alot of work in here....

Andyew - thanks for the pics - they are very inspirational.

I have obtained a great deal of information on my project, and am moving fast towards a solution. Please understand this is my first attempt to work with CNC stuff, and I am building a cnc project that works with a dremel now, mainly to get a machine that can machine parts for other machines - while I research the airbrush solution. I am also having issues getting the stepper controlling boards down as well - since i lost the diagram from my original plans.


Looking at the pics, it feels like to me I can just scrap the whole double rail thing, since I just need one arm going up and down, and then a track left to right - very light weight. I would put all that heavy stuff somewhere else - and the difficult part would be making the robotic airbrush mechanics.

what's in my mind is, a arm vertically straight. it's move to left and right by rails/screw below the arm. then, up and down motion another 2 rails vertically.... near and far from the shirt board (eg Z-axis) is moved on the top of the arm. So, the arm i m talking about is just a pillar support Z-axis on top. then another Finger-axis will control the double-action of the airbrush trigger. anyway, air is either on/off, then the precised control for the nozzle opening is needed.

then, if it's done, i think software has a lot to do as to make it "alive!"..... since u r expert in prog, there shouldnt be a prob.

as for "recording", i suggest making some sort of 3D probe with additional encoder/sensor, recording both the location of the airbrush AND the trigger action as well. yet another x, y, z and trigger-probe for this device..............

anyway, at least there is a dream, otherwise, nothing will even come true!

btw, as for changing colors, maybe something like the silentaire Spectrum will work.... another "axis" will control the rotational motion to choose the color....
http://www.silentaircompressor.com/spectrum2000.htm

kinda long way to go..... maybe we can share the load or something if i can give a hand.....

Just a suggestion from a newbie, but if the mass of the shirt (or whatever) is so much smaller than the gantry/spray gun/ arm/ motors etc, why not move the shirt ?

probably it's a good idea since on the airbrush side, we can concentrate on the triggering part AND the "depth" motion (Z)..... n for the XY plane, the shirt is moved instead.... thanks greybeard for the idea

For my application I will be spraying an area 30" high and 30" - 60" wide. So I will move the arm itself. Since its just an airbrush I need not worry about all this heavy duty stuff - and arm on a pole looks like it suits nicely. I need to keep the system light so I am able to train it by hand using encoders.

I DO have an arm-robot, but I am unable to visualize and conjure all the variables that go into rotating those arms in degrees to make a pattern. That feels to complicated for me right now, and x,y is simple.

the disney airbrush arm pictures are interesting. it looks almot like a modified vice is the 'z' axis... the distance from brush to shirt... it seems like, if my little airbrush experience is usefull here, that axis only need 2 or 3 inches of travel..

for changing colors, i would assume the only reasonable way to do it is have a seperate airbrush for each color.. between colors on my airbrush i clean the whole thing with thinner...

there is a wealth of code allready developed that would help you.. if you look in the old threads about the painter-gantry on wheels robot ive been building..(untill i left the country for 7 months- dont worry. i return to chicago tomorrow. in stockholm now)

anyhow the idea devloped there uses a ghostscript opensource driver, and outputs the XY info to a custom written post-processor which creates a g-code file out of the vector art.. so you can actually just hit print in adobe illustrator(for example) and the software was gonna do the rest.. the last step was going to be a simple gcode interpreter which works just right with the machine.. nothing complicated. nice little modules that work together and borrow lots of code from other sources...

argghh. i cannot wait to be home in my shop!

Vacpress- Thanks for the info. I've been gathering the materials to build my airbrush machine, and am approaching construction time. I have use of pic-programming / development hardware, and am able to devise my own controller situation for the steppers and air /solenoid control. I'm also a very versed computer programmer; as this is where most my experience is.

As it stands now; my machine will operate a 30" x 30" +/ 2" work area - with a single airbrush. I have yet to design the airbrush holder, and gather the belts and pulleys for the trucks on my custom build rails. Still alot to be done before I can start working with software.

I've read alot of your research on robotic painting, its very impressive. I hope you continue your work, you seem like quite the handy-person.

oh, also.. i would imagine it is nearly impossible to reuse a HP or Epson or similar inkjet head to make a large format printer. im not positive, but unless you are a hardcore software\hardware engineer with access to the firmware that controlls these things and probably advanced microchip\PGA programming skills, you will not do it... making a print head is an option, but that would also be very difficult, and the output will never come close to an epson or HP print head.. those things are extremely well engineered.. many very tiny parts and decades of design experience went into them... the best option might be to convert a regular paper printer to a flatbed printer, to print on wood or plastic, or whatever.. non flexible mediums. this would be much easier,then you just have to trick the thing into thinking that it has grabbed a piece of paper, etc... it might be possible to do this with no software knowledge... the hard part wil be getting the gantry mounted level... inkjet printers are precision devices, i know, i spent 4 years repairing printing equipment.. aligning a messed up inkjet can border on futile.

hope it helps.

robert

Sorry to hijack this thread, but...

It is not impossible to reuse a printer head, in fact I did just that a while ago:
pictures:
http://filz.altronix.se/black/
movies:
http://filz.altronix.se/black/skriva.mov
http://filz.altronix.se/black/skriva_arm.mov

I am interested in mounting this on my cnc in order to make PCB:s. But... what kind of ink could be used that would stick to the cupper ? I use a lexmark inkhead, this works by quickly heating the ink so it ejects through the nozzle by the pressure built up from the heat. Anyone with any suggestions?

/Johan

Ive done some research on this.

Here's what I found out -

--------------------
There are two types of printer heads, piezo (which is ultra-sound - I think used on epson printers) and thermal (which heats up and creates a bubble the bursts, use in lexmark and other printers)

Since the thermal style will heat the solution, I fear that any solvants; which are needed to bond enamil to metal - would cause that head to clog.

So I looked into the epson style heads; as it appears thats more compatible to direct transfer a medium to a copper clad sheet.

I know a sharpie marker will work as a resist; and could not get sharpie to sell me the ink. I also know that ink is common in plotter pens, so I began to find plotter-pen refillable ink to use.

- like you, I was looking to hack and inkjet head. Thats A WHOLE LOT of work! Too much for me to handle, especially as many times as I try things and they fail.

So I managed to hack the entire print-assembly on the machine itself to fit a 1/32 copper pcb directly thu - as if it were a sheet of paper. So now it feeds the copper sheet, to print directly on that. This took me just a few hours to do this operation; some hacking with a dremel grinder, and re/aligning the print rail to fit a thicker sheet of material.

The epson heads come in a common market for selling refill kits, and botomless refills which syphon ink from an external bottle. I am still pinpointing the right mixture that wont clog the print head, stick to copper, and still act as a resist. Ideally, this is a very good solution, and am on the verge of completing.

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The easiest way I managed to pull this entire process to apply resist to etch a pcb was to stick a sheet of pcb material into an old plotter, and plot to it's surface. I design the circuits in corel, and output using sign / plotting software. The only drag really is getting the width of the pen, but since it's a plotter - I can stick anything from crayons, an elmer's glue dispensor, pencil, sharpie fine / medium tip whatever I want inside the holder.

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does that help?

I think your idea of hacking an epson printer is the best solution for this. Please advice us if you find a good ink-solution!

/Johan

ROLAND is a sign-making machine company that makes huge inkjet printers for making large banners and stuff that are usually used for trucks, and large stuff.

ROLAND inkjet heads are PIEZO (same as epson).

And that ink is a solvant, NOT water-based, and designed to be tough.

So if you can get your hands on a sample of that ink, I would give it a try.

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Also, there are a huge supply of inkjet refill kits on ebay. If you can find one cheap, that ISNT water-soluable - then I think that just might work (if it doesnt clog the thermal print-head).

Sorry to hijack this thread, but...

It is not impossible to reuse a printer head, in fact I did just that a while ago:


/Johan


Ok. You rule. Wow. that is neat-o. I didnt even consider trying it. i went right to nutty paint guns!

Those videos are highly impressive to me. Can you explain a bit how it works?

Does it use the original driver boards and has the same set page width? how do you time it just right with your hand?! next time i am in sweden, i will shake it!

tell us!

I agree. That is very impressive work. That is clearly a person with patience!

I looked all around for aftermarket inket-head sellers. I think the closest I came was attempting to get free sample demonstrator heads, but they look for companies looking to develop stuff for mass production.

There are many in china, and japan that will sell the heads, and datasheets - however, for the most part - need to be able to translate the language (most anyone at chineese or japaneese restuarant can do this for a couple bucks).

jumping into this after reading all the threads...i apologize in advance, cause im a little rusted on writing in english..
i time ago i was interested on printing directly into cdr surfaces, so i hacked an epson c43ux printer. i managed to make it take a "foamed pvc" of 5mm, with a milled circular pocket of 1mm depth., so the cdr stays in place...the project was abandoned cause i could get the printer to read the "paper" in place (i didnt know how to make the sensor to act) i figured that the printer needs the paper ok signal, after a fixed amount of steps signals at the paper feeder stepper motor..anyway long story short, i abandoned the project cause the knowledge was out of my reach... a month later i saw some epson printer , that has a cd tray and the right software to do the job. LOL....

im really interested on airbrush printers..so here i post my own suggestions...knowing that software development is out of my reach..( i dont have any programing skills..)
i think that a sort of standar airbrush system is needed, at least the same needle system. mounted on an array maybe. 3 to 5 colos (cmyK, and cmyk plus light cyan, and light magenta, just like bigger plotters out there)

theres no need for double action airbrush. just fixed air, and variable paint
so the system has to be able to pull or push the needle..(have you ever hacked appart a 3.5 floppy?? noticed the tiny stepper motor that drives the magnetic head? maybe they can be used to pull and push the needle...))

image should be rastered "printed" line by line.
fixed "printing" speed for each ink or paint..depending on the viscuosity(is that a word?)of the fluid.. als the air pressure need to be changed..but not handled by software

the hardware for the xy table is so cheap t make..and so easy...also the "printing" head is s easy too..
the whole problem is the software... by the way, it will be great that it functions under a printer controller like a regular printer..so we can use "file->print->airbrush printer..." as if it where a regular printer...

any comments will be higly appreciated..

Thanks Jan, I had seen these links b4.
The driverzone link tells me to use HP drivers, but HP no longer has then on the internet.
The wine link is a program that costs more than 300 bucks and It doesnt have a trail version so I dont even know if it will work.

But thanks so much for trying to help me though :)

yneb you may try www.hpmuseum.net for drivers i have found drivers for alot of old hp plotters etc there dont know wich model drivers will work with your machine but might be worth a look i also know of a product out there that i have seen used in coralation to coreldraw to run a old hpgl pen plotter that was retrod to a vinyl cutter but cant remember what it is called i will do some looking and see if i cant find it for you i know of a guy who, retroed a plotter with an epson print head and uses singo as his program for printing some how hope i have helped cuz i tend to confuse

I finally found someone who has built a successful cnc airbrush:

http://mlyon.com/blog/2007/01/computer-controlled-paintbrush-gizmo.html
http://mlyon.com/blog/2007/01/painting-machine-tests-photos-and.html
http://mlyon.com/blog/2007/02/jim-painting-80-x-44-inches-image-area.html

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The thread on the airbrush forums is here:

http://www.airbrush.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=264197&mpage=1&key=cnc񁳤