I am new here and have been working on an X2 for a year or so, and really would like to upgrade to something significantly larger. I plan to do mainly manual machining, and maybe a few years down the road go CNC, but its not really in the plans at the moment.

I need help deciding which mill to get. The largest machine I think I can fit in the garage is a RF-45 clone. I know there are many different companies who make these machines, however I think I am leaning toward the Grizzly G0484 http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-32-Gear-Head-Mill-Drill-with-Stand/G0484

The good:

Power feed on the Z
Power feed on the X
Beefy stand
Package priced

The bad:

Lower spindle speed (1512 rpm)
Don't know the quality of the machine relative to other clones (except IH machines and early lathemaster machines)

The G0484 looks like it would be $2169 shipped which is at the very top end of what I am looking to spend. I would love the IH machine, but there is no way I can justify the extra money. I wouldn't mind buying the base machine and finding the power feeds used and building my own stand but the price of the machine would have to be really low to make this a feaseable option. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The Lathemaster (http://www.lathemaster.com/HEAVYDUTYMILLINGMACHINE%207045FG.htm) has 2 HP vs 1 1/2 of the grizzly, 1920 rpm vs 1512 and a little more y travel.
A powerfeed and stand are available and would be a little cheaper than the grizzly.
Sold out at the moment but they have gotten good reviews.
The grizzly is good quality and already has all the extras with it.
If I was looking to CNC sometime, I'd go lathemaster as the powerfeed wouldn't be necessary
but if manual is the plan for a good while then the grizzly would get the nod for me.
Hoss

I'm with Hoss. Lathemaster is a good bunch to deal with. They seem to find just the right niches where their machines have an advantage over similar machines.

I hate the thought of paying for power feeds when you could go CNC, but that's just me. I did the same thing, though I bought a cheap power feed off eBay and adapted it to my RF-45. I got a lot of miles out of it, but I have to say it is no comparison to using Mach3 as though it was a power feed even if you don't want to program g-codes.

For about the cost of power feeds on all axes and a DRO you could be CNC'd I bet.

Cheers,

BW

It has served me well manual and now cnc for over nine years. Bob Bertrand at Lathemaster is great to deal with and has taken care of me long after the sale. The machines are decent for the money and if you cannot afford the IH machine which I think is probably a little better due to the larger travels then the LM machine is a close second IMHO. Have not seen much of the GRizzly from actual owners and last I heard they were backordered for awhile. That may have changed tho.... I also agree with others here that it is difficult to pay for power feeds when you have any intention of going cnc down the road, basically paying for nothing. My machine did come with the power head lift and that was nice manually since the millhead is heavy and cranking it up and down is not exactly easy. I do not know if the new ones Bob is importing have this feature as an option or not. You might try to call Bob and see what he can do for you, he is a nice fellow to talk to. Maybe he can get you what you want in the LM machine via special order or something. I have thought about trying to persuade him into buying some of the larger IH style machines such as IH and now Machinewarehouse is now selling. DO not know if he can or not... Good luck and make sure you post pics of the machine and the cool stuff you make for your 5.0....peace

I talked to Bob last week I asked him when he would have more machine in stock and if the price would be the same. He told me that the next shipment was going to be February of next year, and the price depended on the exchange rate, which doesn't look promising. I also talked to the folks at grizzly and they told me they were supposed to have more machines in stock right before Christmas possibly earlier, they also told me that the holiday sale flyer is supposed to go out this week.

I am torn, I think I would prefer the lathemaster machine due to the fact that I really haven't heard anybody have a bad thing to say about them, and at about $620 cheaper I could deal with it not having power feeds on the X and Z. I would still have to build a stand which would be a fun project, but it would be a couple hundred dollars in material if I had to guess.

Realistically I think both of these machines would be fine for what I intend to do with them, I just don't know if I should take my chances and wait to see what the lathemaster runs next year or get the grizzly. I think they are both going to be more expensive after the first of the year, but is that a good enough reason to make the purchase now?

I don't know where these guys get their IH clone machine (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD002-RF45-clone-p-16134.html) but I am currently saving up for one. They will ship to a warehouse across the country for cheep ($250cdn)

Were in canada but I have not seen a IH sized machine for $2000cdn anywhere else and with shipping and the exchange you could get it close to your nearest boarder and go for a road trip for $2200usd

Other than that I have some grizzly tools and I have no complaints and you rarely see people complaining about them on the forum.

They also have a RF-45 clone (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD002-RF45-clone-p-16134.html) that shipped and after exchange would be $1700usd but for an RF-45 I would almost pay the bit more for the extras and a local dealer for parts.

What about one of these?
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91748&highlight=weiss

Its a Weiss WDM30LV

http://weiss-europe.nl/product/40-variable_speed_mill_drill.html

That Weiss machine is pretty sweet, but the WDM30LV is a little smaller, and even though it has some cool features, I don't really want to give up that much table and travel, and their bigger machine has almost all the same specs as the Grizzly. I also think that buying from a company in the states would be a wise decision, for tech support and parts service reasons.

It looks like the Grizzly G0484 is not going to be on sale for the holidays, from what I can tell.

What does everyone think about the Penn Tool Co version of this mill, (Top Tech DM-45)
http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=4493
I seem to remember them getting decent reviews.

Its only $1395 for the bare machine, I don't know how much they charge for shipping, but it seems like it would probably be around 200-250. I am going to call them tomorrow and get a quote for freight, and see if they have any in stock.

I went for a Precision Mathews PM45 from Quality Machine Tools http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM45MMill.html

220v 1 1/2 hp, 1950 rpm.
Stand with drainage included
Coolant pump tank and plumbing included
Work light included

All things you will want to add, If my experience with smaller mill holds true.

So for me it's actually cheaper than a bare bones as I'd have to get more stuff to make it usefull.

I guess it depends where you source the machine from, but my WMD30LV has a bigger table and more travel than most RF45s. Travels are 23.5"x9.3" and table length is 33". It has the variable speed that the RF does not, but the head is not as big as an RF45.

I don't know where these guys get their IH clone machine (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD002-RF45-clone-p-16134.html) but I am currently saving up for one. They will ship to a warehouse across the country for cheep ($250cdn)

Were in canada but I have not seen a IH sized machine for $2000cdn anywhere else and with shipping and the exchange you could get it close to your nearest boarder and go for a road trip for $2200usd

Other than that I have some grizzly tools and I have no complaints and you rarely see people complaining about them on the forum.

They also have a RF-45 clone (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/MD002-RF45-clone-p-16134.html) that shipped and after exchange would be $1700usd but for an RF-45 I would almost pay the bit more for the extras and a local dealer for parts.


Another nice thing about the "IH" clone mills from Machine Tool Warehous (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/index.html) is that they offer factory ISO 30 spindle (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/ISO-30-Spindle-upgrade-p-16261.html) upgrades as well as 1 Phase 3 Hp (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/Motor-upgrade-1-phase-3-hp-p-16245.html) and 3 Phase 2 Hp (https://www.machinetoolswarehouse.com/xcart/catalog/Motor-upgrade-3-phase-2-hp-p-16232.html) motor upgrades.

I think I have made a decision, I am going to wait until the lathemaster machines are back in stock. I think I am going to see if I can get the power head lift, and keep an eye out for a used power table feed. I think the lathemaster is just an all around better machine. I really can't see myself cnc'ing this machine until I get a bigger garage and I don't think that will be for 5+ years.

I have started to build a stand for it already. Picked up some 2.5 x 2.5 x 1/8" square tubing for the legs and some 3/8" plate steel for the top of the stand. The question I have is how big is the footprint of the machine. I found cad models somewhere on the internet that are supposed to be accurate, but I just want to double check.

According to ProE the stand should weigh about 160lbs :) I am trying to incorporate casters along with leveling feet so that I can move it at will. I will post pictures after I make some progress on it.

I have the IH machine with a VFD and a DRO. The motor is a 3 phase (VFD) motor.

Note the size of the collar on the IH and the MTW device compaired to all the others. This helps the rigidity of the head.

You'll pay more for the IH up front, but you will like the unit.

Oh Yeah - all of these units are huge... http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=552404&postcount=10