Just picked up a MV Jr, have not hooked it up yet and had some questions that are killing me to find out.

Info
Model SV-50/40
SN 388
Control MSC-518MC
inspection Date 10-24-96

Questions:
Will this run a rigid tap?
Is that what the G84 is?
Does someone have an example if it will do tapping?

I see graphs that show 4000, 6000 and I think 10000 rpm, where the different top speeds options? Or is there gearing or something that lets you change it? Sorry this is more of a hopeful question.

Has anyone hooked these up to a serial port and if so would you mind hinting on the pinout of the port or pointing me to a page in the manuals that will tell me. Also what is the port set up numbers, baud, etc. Again page would be good this manual is the best.

Here is the newbie question, who makes the controller for post processor sake?


Oh, anything I need to know about my new machine?

Thanks
Andy

Is Yasnac correct for the post processor?

Andy

NO WAY THATS A JR !!! thats an early SV50 high speed 30HP 10K rpm machine. Yes, rigid tap was standard.

Control is a Fanuc 18MC, standard Fanuc pin-out on the cable, std parameter settings. Do a search, i don't have them here but it's been asked 100 times on this site.

Watch out if the machine has been stored for a while. Thats a pretty fast ATC arm on that thing and the tool lock plungers may be stuck on the arm. If they are, it will throw a tool VERY HARD.

Mori NEVER used a Yasnac on an SV machine. Think they stopped all Yasnac stuff in 95.

For the MSC-518 on a SV-50

sample code


N## G0 G43 G54 G90 X##.#### Y##.#### Z2. H##
Z.5 T## M8(GO TO YOUR INITIAL PLANE, CALL NEXT TOOL, FLOOD ON)
M29 S#### (SET SYNC MODE AND SPINDLE SPEED)
G84 Z-1. R.2 Q.4 F###.#### (FEED IS IN IPM UNITS) (Q IS FOR PECK TAPPING)
G0 Z.5 M9 (RAPID RETURN TO INITIAL PLANE, FLOOD OFF) (G0 CANCELS FIXED CYCLE LIKE G80)
Z2.
G28 G91 Z0 M1 (TAKE SPINDLE HOME FOR TOOLCHANGE)
M6 (TOOLCHANGE)


Notes:
Don't use an M3 - spindle should be off when an M29 S#### is given.
G84 - the Q value is optional and usually omitted (tap full depth in single pass)
No Z axis movement is allowed after the M29 is issued other than the actual G84 cycle.
G80 or G0 will cancel the M29


Good luck, The SV50 is a great toy!:)

NO WAY THATS A JR !!! thats an early SV50 high speed 30HP 10K rpm machine. Yes, rigid tap was standard.

Control is a Fanuc 18MC, standard Fanuc pin-out on the cable, std parameter settings. Do a search, i don't have them here but it's been asked 100 times on this site.

Watch out if the machine has been stored for a while. Thats a pretty fast ATC arm on that thing and the tool lock plungers may be stuck on the arm. If they are, it will throw a tool VERY HARD.

Mori NEVER used a Yasnac on an SV machine. Think they stopped all Yasnac stuff in 95.

You maybe right, I looked at the tag earlier today and it was made in 86 I think; so I think some of the paper work I received with is for a different machine. I need to look into this. I will let you know more about the machine tomorrow, when I get back to the machine. Thanks for the warning on the tool changer, since I am new to tool changer would you recommend a process to see if it is working ok. I have two sources for the status of the tc, when I bought it I was told it was not working, that's why the price was cheap, when I talked to an operator he said it was working but was real noisy. I have not hooked up power yet so I have not been able to play with it.

Andy

86 would for sure NOT be an SV, nor a MSC518 control. Is the machine green or white and blue?

86 would for sure NOT be an SV, nor a MSC518 control. Is the machine green or white and blue?

it is green

Could be Yasnac or Fanuc then.

Models of green vintage (at least common ones)
MV-35/35
MV-35/40
MV40/40
MV45/40
MV45/45
MV50/40
MV50/50
MV65/50

And yes, MVjr in the later portion-late 80's. A Jr is basicaly a stripped down MV40. It may or may not have rigid tap then, as that was an option for most machines back then. An 86 could be a Yasnac MX1 or MX2, or Fanuc 6/10/11

I will make sure to look more tomorrow, would like to find all of this out, thanks for the help.

Andy

If you can get the sn off of the tag on the electrical cabinet door, I can see what control type it has (and maybe alot of other information). By the way, the tag wil tell you the model as well. Good luck.
pinpointcnc

If you can get the sn off of the tag on the electrical cabinet door, I can see what control type it has (and maybe alot of other information). By the way, the tag wil tell you the model as well. Good luck.
pinpointcnc

You will have it tomorrow sir, thanks
Andy

I have an 86 MV-JR. Yasnac MX-2 control. How do I tell if it has rigid tapping? Command an M29?

clay

You will have it tomorrow sir, thanks
Andy

Type ENCM-CP3117
SN S66113-1-5
Date 7/1986
PN 159
Yaskawa

This is what I pulled off the door next to the card cage assembly.

Andy

Just got the machine hooked up. When I power it up it shows hard over travel as the error, I press the release on the side and it still will not move, any ideas?

Thanks Andy

Just got the machine hooked up. When I power it up it shows hard over travel as the error, I press the release on the side and it still will not move, any ideas?

Thanks Andy

So if I hold the override button before turning on the display power it will work? Ok?

I am new to this machine and still a newbie in some cases. I usually touch off of a part and set my zero from that; how accurate is the zero on this machine? Can I use it instead of touching off a parts?

Andy

If your on a hard limit it should be real apparent which axis it is.

To get it off the limit may require 2 people, one to hold the over travel release button while the other uses (only) the MPG hand wheel to move the proper axis off the limit. Use a medium resolution and go slow and careful. REMEMBER with that with the Over Travel button pressed you are bypassing all safeties - it will let you rip the ball screw mount out of the machine if you keep moving in the wrong direction.

M29 is a Fanuc command - and the MX# tend to use FPR not IPM for tap feeds if I remember right.

Once the axis are centered if you are still showing overload, power off and lockout the machine, remove all the brushes from the offending axis servo and use compressed air thru each brush location to try and get as much carbon dust out. Most DC brush servos have 4 brushes for motor power but will likely also have some additional smaller brushes for the tach generator output.

I doubt that an 86 vintage machine will have rigid tapping. You can still machine tap with tension compression holders and do very well.

RTFM = Read The Fabulous Manuals - Cover to cover 3 times. May seem like a waste of time but when you have questions you will remember that you just saw that... Then you can try to hunt down where you saw it.

So if I hold the override button before turning on the display power it will work? Ok?

Ah, press the override and then press the on button again, got it.

I doubt that an 86 vintage machine will have rigid tapping. You can still machine tap with tension compression holders and do very well.


I am reading the manuals, thanks for the suggestion :-)

My manual shows a G84 tapping cycle, but no M29, does that mean no rigid? Having never done tapping before on a cnc, this means I will need to use a tapping head correct? If so what kind?

Ok, warming up the spindle like the manual says, 1000 rpm for half hour then 2000 rpm for half hour; got 25 minute into the 2000 and started hearing loud screeching noise, pressed spindle stop it stopped. No errors on what I presume to be the drive box, what just happened!!!!!!
Andy

G84 is a tapping cycle - it does NOT mean you have rigid tapping.

Read up on the use of floating holders, read your manuals. Do your homework before asking questions.

If your spindle uses air oil mix was the oil full and air at the proper pressure.

You are attempting to operate high speed heavy machinery. Mistakes will be costly and can easily kill.

If you really don't know what your getting into get help.

a 86 JR is not air/oil at all. It may not even be an integral type spindle. EARLY MV40/jr was a gear head machine.

1.spindle motor
2.oil cooler
3. gearbox(if old style)
4. Spindle upper bearing or lower bearing

5. Early style had a hydraulic pump. Check that as well. They can have cavitation and really sound bad.

a 86 JR is not air/oil at all. It may not even be an integral type spindle. EARLY MV40/jr was a gear head machine.

1.spindle motor
2.oil cooler
3. gearbox(if old style)
4. Spindle upper bearing or lower bearing

5. Early style had a hydraulic pump. Check that as well. They can have cavitation and really sound bad.

Belt Drive, no gear box
If I take off the belt will I be able to run the spindle motor?

Oil cooler ? Tell me more, not seeing that in the parts list

It is warming up and starting to seize, would spindle bearings do that? When it is cold, it turns with inertia hardness, no grinding seems to spin freely. When it was warmer after the run up and the noise it was hard to turn. The load on the spindle was going up also. Don't get me wrong I would love it to be the spindle bearings, but; when I had a bad set on a knee mill the spindle just got hot and a little noisy still free to spin.

Thanks for the help
Andy

Much tighter bearing clearance than a knee mill. Just belt drive with no gear box? Thats a new one on me. If it's a belt drive only, it may not have a oil cooler. Guess I should dig my old prints box out tonight and see if I have any info on that type. See, even I can learn stuff on these things. "First guy that says I know it all, is the first one out the door !"

Much tighter bearing clearance than a knee mill. Just belt drive with no gear box? Thats a new one on me. If it's a belt drive only, it may not have a oil cooler. Guess I should dig my old prints box out tonight and see if I have any info on that type. See, even I can learn stuff on these things. "First guy that says I know it all, is the first one out the door !"

Thanks, look forward to hearing back from you. My current parts list looks like it might be the wrong one, hoping I can get the right one from the guy I bought the machine from.

I have replaced bearings in knee mills before, can I replace the spindle bearings myself?
Where can I get specs or instructions?
Where should I get the bearings?

Thanks
Andy

Well, we need to determin what spindle you actually have. Most Mori's use a hydraulic nut for bearing load. Not sure about yours. All World can get you bearings, but gonna be $$ for those. I'm not saying you can't do it, but I would get quotes from rebuilders first. If the bearing set is 2K, and the rebuilders charge 3K, might be worth it. You can ruin a set of bearings very easy. If it is a hydraulic nut style, you would need the tooling.

BTW, a shop in your area is blowing off a bunch of excess machines. PM me if your interested, i can give you a contact. I have no stake in it at all, so I don't care one way or the other.

While last night I pulled out the spindle, no gear box, belt drive. All you have is the 4 set screws on the top sides, two each side. You have to move the spindle down to get to the left side ones. No need to mark the spindle it will only go back one way because one of the bolts on the hub is indexed differently. The draw bar just pushes against the spindle to release the tool so nothing needs to be taken out there. Mine came out a little harder then yours do, note, it did come down a little when I loosened all of the bolts, at which time the spindle freed up, so I tightened up one of the bolts a little and it seized again, thought that was kind of strange, everybody was talking about precision bearings and how sensitive they were, so I thought maybe I was torquing the bearing assembly. So to get the spindle started down I used the draw bar cylinder, it pushed me down about 1/2", enough to get the lower oring free. I then stuck to bolts in the threaded holes in the end of my spindle and moved the table and spindle so I could clamp those bolts in the vise. My vise is brand new and have not bolted it down yet, so I took the wheel and raised z up some, my vise promptly lifted up. If I were smart I would have looked around for bolts to tighten my vise down (Which I found later I did not have any t nuts) but instead I pulled out the handy dead blow hammer and started hitting the vise down toward the table, then raised the z up some more, worked slow but it worked. Once I got closer to the end I put boards under the spindle as you said. Anyway sat the spindle on the bench and looked at it, spun great didn't feel any grit or grind, felt great. So my thought was, going back to that bind or torqued thought I now laugh at, maybe there is some contamination in the area that is causing the bind. So I cleaned all of the goo off the spindle and the head and reinserted the spindle noting to see how the spindle felt as it went in. Felt great all the way up to about 0.020 from the end. Again went back to that dumb idea that it might be in a bind, messed with different bolts to see it I could get it to pull in without torquing it and seizing. Finally came to the conclusion that I could not. Sat, thought, looked, sat, thought and looked more, then I saw it, the draw bar was tight against the end of the spindle. This went with more of my idea I had had all along that something must have happened during shipping, so anyway, pulled the spindle back out so I could get to the cylinder rod to adjust the button up on the rod, moved it up about one full turn and put the spindle back in. I have not done any long runs on it but it does seem to work.

Now, the questions is, the button was tight on the end of the cylinder rod, what would have moved during shipping to cause this to start binding?


Thanks for your help and ideas
Andy

So it is just a belt drive. Never actually seen one in person. Glad you got it out. So, the unclamp cylinder is down too far pushing on the drawbar. My guess is there is air in the oil system. I need pictures of the unclamp assembly at the top of the head. If its the type i'm thinking it is, i've seen this once before. There is a small check valve that is almost not visible, that needs to come out and be re-worked. A little craytex and you be good to go. PM me for my home email. See what I can do.

So it is just a belt drive. Never actually seen one in person. Glad you got it out. So, the unclamp cylinder is down too far pushing on the drawbar. My guess is there is air in the oil system. I need pictures of the unclamp assembly at the top of the head. If its the type i'm thinking it is, i've seen this once before. There is a small check valve that is almost not visible, that needs to come out and be re-worked. A little craytex and you be good to go. PM me for my home email. See what I can do.

Are you implying that it is a hydraulic cylinder and not a air cylinder that pushes the drawbar? I will look but I am about 75% sure it is air.

They all are air over oil. I've never seen a Mori that wasn't. Should have oil in the unclamp cyl, air actuated on top.