View Full Version : Ballscrew Basics


Swede
03-01-2005, 11:06 AM
"Ballscrews? What the heck is a ballscrew, and why use one? My machine came with ACME screws, and those seem more than adequate for my CNC conversion!" This is a fairly typical question that someone new to CNC is prone to state. In this article, I will "scratch the surface", so to say, of ballscrew characteristics, and importantly, which type to use in your particular machine.

Expect no mathematics or analysis of loads; these will vary with the machine and the type of work you intend to perform! Instead, I'll propose some very simple rules of thumb regarding the sizing of the ballscrew for your machine. Take that portion of this article with a huge grain of salt. If in doubt, there's plenty of research material available on the internet from companies like Lintech.

A ballscrew is a variation of a standard screwform shaft and nut. The "threads" on the shaft are hemispherical or ovoid in shape, and are designed to allow a hardened steel ball to make contact and transfer forces between the ballnut and the shaft. The heart of the system is the ballnut. It too has internal grooves, which combine with the shaft grooves to create a channel for the ball to travel. As the shaft and nut are rotated, the balls travel relative to the ballnut. Consider a normal ball bearing... hold the inner race, and rotate the outer race. Focus on a single ball. It will travel in a circular motion. In a ballscrew/nut, as our friendly ball moves along, it eventually will reach the end of the internal ballnut tracks. Ultimately, it would simply pop free, and every ball in the system would thus be ejected within a few turns of the nut without a return path. Therefore, to recirculate the balls, a return tube is engineered within, or external to, the body of the ballnut. The ball exits the nut at one end, enters the return tube, and is routed back to the other end of the nut, where it begins its journey anew. They are fascinating devices!

Given this complexity, why use a ballscrew? There are two primary reasons. First, and most important, the ballscrew is far more efficient than any other screw form for converting torque from your motor to linear motion, via the ballnut. Most manual machines make use of the classic ACME screw and nut. A typical ACME threadform has an efficiency of roughly 40%, whereas a ballscrew's efficiency can easily top 90%. More efficiency equates to lighter servos or steppers, less energy wasted due to friction, and in most cases, where adequate lubrication is available, exceptionally long service life.

The second reason ballscrews are desirable in our machines is that ballscrews lend themselves well to the elimination of backlash in a system. ACME nuts can be made zero-backlash, but this further reduces the efficiency of an already poor system. Backlash is an important concept. Allow me to help create a mental picture. You are moving a load with a ballscrew or other threadform. Stop turning the shaft. Measure EXACTLY the location of the load. Now, SLOWLY start turning the shaft in the opposite direction. If the load IMMEDIATELY begins to move, congratulations, you have zero backlash. If the shaft must rotate some amount before the load responds, that's backlash. Backlash and CNC = bad. Zero backlash = good. Some CNC software is advertised as being able to compensate for backlash, but it is never as good as a tight, zero-backlash axis. Try cutting a circle with a 2-axis system which has backlash, and you'll see what I mean.

"But what about accuracy?? Isn't that the primary reason to use a ballscrew?" True, accuracy can be extremely high, but ACME screws can be ground and with a correct, matching nut, can exhibit identical accuracy to the finest ballscrew. In my own shop, I have a pair of ground ACME screws which are accurate to within 0.0001" over 12". They are still NIB, as to achieve that level of accuracy, the nut is fairly tight, and a significant torque is required just to move the nut, let alone an attached load.

Now that we've determined that the ballscrew threadform is very desirable for your new "Super Mill" or "Mega Router", we must further differentiate between ballscrew types. Ballscrews come in two basic "flavors", rolled, and precision ground. A rolled ballscrew has its thread formed under intense pressure by being taken through a series of roller dies which progressively form the ball channels. This is basically a forging operation... the shaping of metal by extreme forces rather than metal removal. Rolled ballscrew accuracy can be quite good, but it cannot currently match grinding.

A precision ground ballscrew is created as its name implies... exceptionally accurate and well-dressed abrasive wheels cut the ball channels in both the screw and the nut. Tolerances and overall accuracy can be phenomenal. So can the price! Two additional benefits of a ground ballscrew - they tend to run much more quietly than rolled, and due to the precision of the threadform, it is not a difficult matter to create a ballnut that exhibits zero backlash. Rolled ballscrews also can be made with zero backlash, but it is a much more involved process than a ground ballscrew. To produce this happy state in a rolled screw, usually two ballnuts are used, mounted back-to-back, with some form of powerful spring tensioning (like belleville washers) between them. Sometimes oversized balls or skewed tracks are used, but lead variation of the shaft threads makes the latter two methods much more difficult to do properly.

I believe I can say without quibbling that ground ballscrews are always better than rolled. The problem is in the cost. A 3' section of 5/8" dia. rolled ballscrew can be had for perhaps $40 new, and a nut for another $25. A similar length of ground ballscrew will easily top over $1,000 for one of good accuracy. Fortunately, ground ballscrews are available on eBay for reasonable prices; otherwise, very few of us could afford them for our home shops. They are used extensively in the semiconductor industry, and scrapped clean-room equipment can yield some very nice ballscrews.

How to identify the difference visually? It's pretty easy with just a bit of experience. To start, ignore the journals, these are usually ground for radial bearings and they all look the same. You'll want to first examine the shaft. Quite simply, ground ballscrews flat-out look better. The finish of the grooves is quite shiny, and very uniform. The "lands", those portions of the shaft which seperate the ball grooves, are finished as nicely as the grooves. They are normally plain, with no markings, lines, or other features. Now, move to the ballnut. A ground ballnut is often bulkier than a rolled ballnut, and the vast majority have a flange, meaning that the round body of the ballnut ends with a round, rectangular, or square flange perpendicular to the shaft axis. The nut's return tube may be internal or external. The finish on the nut should be very similar to the shaft, in other words, bright and uniform. Usually there is a plastic wiper installed on both ends of the nut to keep debris out of the nut's internals.

A rolled ballscrew will usually exhibit one or more of these characteristics: the shaft is often a black oxide finish. I've seen almost NO ground ballscrews other than bright. The finish, whatever the color, isn't as uniform, nor is it as pleasing to the eye as ground. The nut often has no flange, but is instead threaded to mount an accessory flange. (There ARE many exceptions to this, however.) Usually, there is some form of marking on the lands. Often, it is a light groove which spirals about the screw on the center of the land. I have no idea why that line exists; perhaps it is used to index the screw as it is being formed. Whatever it is, it is VERY common to rolled ballscrews.

By manufacturer? Sometimes. Thomson and Warner ballscrews are almost always rolled. Star, and especially THK, offer a huge mix of rolled and ground. Just because it's a THK doesn't mean it's ground! NSK screws are predominantly ground. These are GENERAL rules only!

On eBay, use caution - USUALLY the seller will identify a ground ballscrew as such, while a rolled ballscrew is usually referred to as only a "ballscrew".

Attached to the end of this article are two pictures, ROLLED.JPG and GROUND.JPG. Study them a bit.

One other method... if the seller simply describes the ballscrew with an accuracy class of C5 or better, especially C3 or better, it'll be ground.

With that, let me touch on accuracy. Ballscrews usually have their own special model #, which varies with the maker. Fortunately, the accuracy designation tends to follow a numerical format. The numbers start at 0 and go upwards, usually by twos, so you can have a C1, C3, T7, etc. The lower the number, the better the accuracy. Ground ballscrews start at 0. Usually the designation is C0; sometimes you see P0.

Some typical lead variations for different accuracy grades...
C0 - 3um or 0.0001" per 300 mm / 12"
C3 - 7um or 0.00027"
C5 - 14um or 0.0005"

The longer the stroke, normally, the larger the variation will be. In other words, it is very difficult to create a 1 meter section of C0 ballscrew, but much simpler to execute the same over only 20 cm when a C5 tolerance is indicated. Remember these values are WORST case! The average lead variation for these screws is much smaller... only perhaps in a certain portion of the travel may the variation reach these values! So you can see that ground screws can have terrific accuracy. They often come with a graph of their lead variation, created with a precision laser measurement device.

Above C5, we enter the rolled ballscrew range. The very best precision rolled screws can reach C5, but these are also quite expensive, not much less than a ground screw.

Often, you'll see the C or P designation give way to a T designation, the T standing for "transport". T-screws are often used in industry for actuating imprecise motion, like a flap on an aircraft, a gate valve, etc. But that doesn't mean they cannot be used for CNC! Just understand what you are dealing with. The majority of rolled screws you'll encounter will be T7 grade.

T7 - 52 um or 0.002" per 300mm / 12"
T10 - 210 um or 0.008"

You can see that T7 isn't bad, but above that it can get ugly, at least for a CNC machine.

Very quickly - don't get confused by repeatibility vs accuracy. Even the crummiest ballscrews usually have excellent repeatibility, which is nothing more than having the ballnut repeat to a specific point. That's wonderful, but if the accuracy is poor, a high repeatibility won't help you if you need a part of a very specific dimension.

"Great! I'll use a ballscrew. It has a number of powerful advantages over ACME or any non-recirculating screwform." Not so fast!

Hand in hand with the ballscrew is the supporting elements. To be effective, any leadscrew must be fixed axially to absorb thrust loads. Yet it must be free to rotate so that your CNC machine actually moves. The answer (I'm sure you've already guessed this) is a radial bearing, commonly called a ball bearing. Before you run off and buy some inline skate bearings, bear with me, we have more choices to deal with!

A C0 ballscrew is worthless if it is supported by a single, standard radial ball bearing. Such a setup has little ability to absorb thrust loads, and the entire ballscrew will move, along with the inner race of the bearing, under load. And it doesn't take much to move over 0.001", negating all of that expensive accuracy! The ballscrew must be FIRMLY fixed in place on one end, usually the driven end, and to do this normally requires a pair of bearings, mounted back to back. The ballscrew driven journal is physically clamped between two inner races, usually between a shoulder in the ballscrew, and a nut. When the nut is tightened, the two inner races are loaded relative to each other. If we then firmly fix the OUTER races in a block or end plate, the ballscrew is now free to rotate relative to the plate, but will not move in an axial direction. This is best achieved by using what are known as angular contact bearings. In these bearings, the inner and outer races are tapered, meaning if they are loaded relative to each other, they will no longer move axially. Rather than try and describe such a setup with words, please refer to the attached print of a typical bearing block with two angular contact bearings. Don't just glance at it if you do not understand the relationship, study it a bit and it will become clear.

For simple setups, a pair of cheaper 7200 series of bearings will work fine. These bearings can be purchased new for perhaps $12 U.S. each. For more accuracy, higher-precision, matched pair bearings can be used, but these can run to several hundred $ a pair! Ouch. For VERY light setups, two normal radial bearings, NOT angular contact, can be loaded in a similar fashion, but will handle nowhere near the axial loads that a true angular contact bearing can take.

With the driven end fixed, why not REALLY fix the ballscrew in place by using another pair at the opposite end of the ballscrew? Don't do that! The far end of the ballscrew must be free to float axially. This is due to temperature variations. As the ballscrew heats up, it will expand, and it must be allowed to do so, or binding and warping will result. The non-driven end of the ballscrew (normally referred to as the simple support end) has a simple journal turned or ground, usually to a length of perhaps 1.5 X the width of the single
radial bearing used at the simple support end. When installed, you'll want to create a modest gap between the squared-off ends of the thread, and the bearing inner race. That gap will be taken up by expansion. It is possible to simply float the non-driven end of the ballscrew, but this will greatly limit the maximum speed that the ballscrew can be driven. The simple support end of an axis is fairly easy to do, so it's best not to skip that step in your project.

Even a T7 rolled screw will benefit greatly from a god set of fixed-end bearings. This is one area which beginners often skimp upon, and they then wonder why their 0.002" ballscrew performs so badly, and has 0.008" of backlash, even with a "0 backlash" ballnut installed.

So how do we eliminate backlash? First, consider again the bearing set. If not fixed axially, you will create a backlash condition when you reverse the ballscrew under load. Assuming you have a good bearing set, all remaining backlash can then be attributed to the ballnut and its interface with the machine. I am not going to go deeply into backlash and the ballnut. Very quickly, ground ballscrews are normally fitted with a zero-backlash nut. To do this, the manufacturer loads the nut with oversized balls; or, the ballnut ball tracks can be skewed slightly relative to the shaft tracks, thus loading the system. If this is your situation, you are good to go. How it is done is not so important as the fact that it is common to mount a zero-backlash ballnut on a ground ballscrew. If you are not sure if your ballnut is zero backlash, it can be tested with a very sensitive dial indicator (say 0.0005" or less). Mount a handwheel on the screw, drive the ballnut, apply the indicator, then reverse. If the indicator needle responds to the slightest reversal of rotation, then you have zero (or close to 0) backlash.

Rolled screws are tougher to deal with. Due to lead variation, if you load oversized balls, or skew the nut tracks, the system can bind as the nut travels into portions of the screw where the threads are a little closer together, or a little farther apart. A good rolled ballscrew CAN be set up in a manner similar to ground, but far more common is the use of two nuts on the same ballscrew, mounted close together, with some form of powerful spring between them, usually belleville or stout wavy washers. Manufacturers like Thomson sell assemblies that will do this, and the price is not excessive. If you can afford it, I recommend a manufactured, zero-backlash ballnut assembly for your rolled screw.

What else? There's still PITCH. What pitch to use? With some rare exceptions, such as miniature, precision instrument ballscrews, most manufacturers' finest pitch is usually 4 or 5mm, or 0.200" travel per turn. Any of these is ideal. If the pitch is finer, smaller balls must be used, and this limits the load carrying capability. Ballscrews lend themselves well to VERY coarse pitches; even a 16mm dia. ballscrew can be made with 10, 20 or more mm per turn. These are not as desireable as a finer pitch. A coarse pitch will reduce the resolution of your system, and not transfer torque to linear motion as well as a finer pitch. Unfortunately, many of the surplus ground ballscrews available use a pretty coarse pitch. Even if the price is very attractive, honestly, I recommend passing on any ballscrew with a pitch coarser than 5mm or 0.200". Metric or imperial? It shouldn't matter. A decent control can handle metric or imperial, and output whatever product you want. Likewise, the direction of rotation is irrelevant.

Lots to think about. Where are we now? We've discussed ground and rolled ballscrews, accuracies, and the need for a good bearing set. Pitch too. Let's put this knowledge to use.

Ultimately, EVERY consideration made will correlate to your desired product. Decide what you want to produce with your new CNC toy BEFORE you begin the construction or retrofit. What follows is pure opinion. If you disagree, then feel free to completely reject what I am about to say!


Situation 1: "My goal is primarily 2D routing of hardwood. I want to build a BIG machine. I really cannot see doing any metal beyond a very occasional chunk of aluminum, and even then, the metal product can be somewhat crude so long as it is shaped correctly!"

Solution: Thomson or similar rolled ballscrews. A pair of SKF 7200 series angular contact bearings loaded into a plate or shop block. The simple support end can go into a pillow block or other simple homemade bearing block. Thomson factory zero-backlash ballnut, as routers tend to have large dimensions, and the loss of 1" of travel due to the length of a double ballnut usually isn't a problem. For an axis smaller than 24" travel, a ballscrew of 5/8" diameter, this is the cheapest new ballscrew that you can buy. Make your ballscrew bearing journal 10mm for an SKF 7200 angular contact bearing set, or 12mm for a SKF 7201. For axes longer than 24", go with 3/4" or 1" diameter, and larger bearings. This setup will give you accuracies of +/- 0.004" over 1 foot. Repeatibility will be excellent. This will be a T7 accuracy system with zero backlash, and will chop wood all day long!


Situation 2: "I want to convert a Harbor Freight or Grizzly mini-mill to CNC, using steppers. I will be making simple parts for R/C, engraving plaques, and a few other things."

Solution A: If you can handle T7 accuracy, again, I'd go with rolled ballscrews. The good news here is that while 0.004" over 1 foot doesn't sound too good, the vast majority of the parts you'll make on a mini mill will be perhaps 4" long, and over 4", you can expect practical tolerances of +/- 0.0015" or so. Problem: there's not too much space in a mini-mill for mounting the ballscrews. You'll probably need 1/2" diameter ballscrews unless you don't mind hacking a lot of cast iron out of the mill to create the necessary space. Again, I firmly believe zero backlash is very desireable, especially in a metal-cutting mill. Two nuts back to back, loaded, will do it, but that will knock about 2" off of the travel! Fitting the necessary bearings will be a challenge.

Solution B: Find a set of 12mm ground ballscrews, class C5 or better, with a zero-backlash ballnut. If they come with bearing blocks, by all means use them, and you will quickly have a killer axis, very accurate, and easier to retrofit than the rolled ballscrew. It'll be quieter, too. The problem, of course, is the cost.


Situation 3: "I want to convert a Harbor Freight or Grizzly mini-mill to CNC, using servo motors. I want a fast, accurate system for creating precision parts. I need tolerances of better than 0.001"

Solution: Now you really need C5 or better ground ballscrews, and if you can retrofit the dovetail slides with recirculating rails and trucks, like THK HSR12's, then that would certainly help, but there's a lot of work involved there. If you are going with a fairly expensive CNC control, and some nice servos, it really makes no sense to interface such a system with set of rolled ballscrews + sloppy bearings.


Situation 4: "My mill-drill will be converted to CNC. I can live with a modest amount of backlash, and 0.004" accuracy is no problem, so long as repeatibility is good."

Solution: Mill drills are heavier machines, and you will be asking your servos or steppers to move a fairly significant mass. This will call for powerful motors, and likewise, a stout set of ballscrews and bearings. With a limited accuracy requirement, I'd go with 3/4" dia or larger T7 rolled ballscrews and a fairly stout bearing set, at least SKF 7201 bearings, which are 12mm ID X 32mm OD. Larger bearings would be appropriate. When snugging the typical way gibs on a mill drill, your torque requirements will go way up. Since a small amount of backlash is OK, you can use a single standard Thomson-style ballnut, which will probably have about 0.005" of backlash; this will create a compact and low-profile interface between ballscrew and way. Repeatibility will be excellent. This is inherent so long as the ballscrews are truly fixed axially.


Situation 5: "I am scratch-building a small CNC bench mill for machining casting waxes and light metal work. Accuracy is important. I am going to machine jewelry prototypes, small components for turbine engines and R/C, and other small parts with close tolerances."

Solution: This will require a very accurate and tight system with 0 backlash. As the size of the parts go down, the need for zero backlash and a quality fixed bearing set go way up. 0.005" of backlash would ruin a fine filligree in wax for gold casting, or a turbine diffuser. I'd go with C3 or better ground ballscrews, fine pitch, servomotors, direct drive, THK/NSK linear rails and trucks. A commercial bearing block would ensure success, or you can create blocks on your own, but they'll need to be well-made. You'll also need a fast, high-quality spindle, but that is another topic entirely.

Quick summary: Rolled ballscrews are very capable, and not too expensive. Ground ballscrews have almost no faults so long as they are mechanically sound, but can cost a LOT. Surplus ground ballscrews are very possible, but it is tough sometimes to find the diameter and pitch needed. They can be cut and a new simple-end journal turned, but this requires a lathe and some lathe experience to do properly. All ballscrew installations benefit from a well-designed and well-executed bearing set. It makes NO sense to install a C3 ground ballscrew with a zero-backlash nut, and mount it into a crummy set of bearing(s). Match your components! If your ballscrew is a C0 jewel, it will be of no benefit if your bearings are poor, your ways are sloppy, etc.

I hope this has been of help to everyone. Remember, these are just opinions, especially the recommendations. It is entirely possible to ignore everything I've said here and create a very effective and accurate system. Now go make chips or sawdust!

Pictures:

1) A print of an angular contact bearing set in a flange block.
2) The same block executed of 7075 aluminum.
3) a GROUND 12mm dia. THK C3 ballscrew, showing the simple support end in a block. Note bright, uniform finish.
4) A ROLLED Warner Electric (red label) ballscrew on eBay. Take note of the "line" on the lands, and generally not-as-nice finish relative to the ground screw.
5) Finally, an NSK commercial ballscrew bearing block, with precision angular contact radial bearings

If you've read this far, then YOU TOO are a CNC addict! :wee: :wave: :wee:

Fred in NC
03-01-2005, 02:58 PM
Thanks for your post and valuable information, Swede!

My only comment is that, save for some dealers, most of the parts sold in eBay don't have enough information. Hard to buy that way.

Fred in NC
03-01-2005, 03:05 PM
Thanks for your very informative post, Swede!

The problem with buying surplus ballscrews in eBay is that, save for a few dealers, most of the time there is not enough information about the item offered. I might end up buying directly from a dealer.

Trapper14
03-09-2005, 12:33 AM
Hands down the best write up on Ballscrews I have ever seen. I learned a ton added on to what I already know. For the fun of it, a new ballscrew (ground) on the 144" X table VMC I run at work would cost roughly $27000 I think thats a 2 inch screw also :banana:

Mcgyver
03-14-2005, 11:38 AM
that was a great write up, thanks for all the time you put into it. That evil backlash! Aside from accuracy, if you want to retaint the ability to cut steel with the mill, with its higher cutting forces, backlash must be eliminated.

then again, with a higher cutting force and 90% screw efficiency how much of an issue is backdriving especially with an efficienct linear bearing and servos instead of steppers? Bit ironic if the system is so efficient friction devices are need to create drag!

TCARPENTER
03-16-2005, 11:58 AM
Outstanding article, I really appreciate the time that must have gone into it, I learned a lot!

Thanks again!
Todd

solarchimesam
03-17-2005, 09:27 AM
That was very educational and thank you for your time.
I found a nice web page on identifying thread screws here.

http://www.roton.com/web/identifying.jsp

Calico
03-18-2005, 05:01 AM
This is what I need

good writing....from the pro

lemme finish reading.... :)

Calico
03-27-2005, 08:13 AM
ok, I've read your lecture and I still reading it.
i i like the way you explain.

couple questions:
1. how you determine motor size if you have that certain ballscrew size ?
any simple chart ? so if anyone build CNC, there is a minimum shaft size if they build CNC for certain size.
2. I have a situation hoping you can guide me.
I will build CNC about 1 meter by 1 .5 meter by 50cm Zdepth (all travel)
I will cut Wood, fiberglass epoxy mostly for molding.
this CNC for making a mold for bumper/spoiler/etc for cars, maybe dashboard.
I will use CNC to make molding from RHino 3D and others apps.
my questions:
1. how to calculate bearing/linear bearing/shaft/ballscrew etc ? basicly ?
2. how you calculate the motor size/torq. etc required ? how to choose stepper or servo for this purpose ?
3. can you explain the ballscrew specifications ? say how strong a ballscrew can move an Axis ?
4. can I ask more ?

I hope you have time for this beginner questions.
I search/learn from the forum but only find bits by bits and dunno how to merge them.

regards
ruddy

strat
05-27-2005, 02:43 AM
great article appr much ......


its things like this and much more that make this THE BOARD

jimc
06-25-2005, 10:15 PM
Swede,

That was an extraordinary article written so well that even I could understand it.

If you (or anyone else) knows of any other articles or books written in your kind of English about motion control regarding, closed loop servo operated mechanisms, drivers, controllers, voltages, compatabilities, and the software to run them I'd appreciate direction. I find learning extremely difficult in this field since nearly everything I read is filled with unexplained abbreviations.

Thanks again for the concise, understandable, comprehensive, well- written
information. I write technical articles myself in a different field, and my hat is off to you.

regards,

jimc

bcox999
06-28-2005, 06:46 AM
wow what a review !!!!

regarding backlash, costing and details please see following company !!!

Good ball screw supplier i sometimes use is listed. All information given on web pages

they can cutomise items to your needs !!!
www.misumi-europe.com

marchantdice
06-30-2005, 12:47 PM
Manufacturing technology of the ballscrew has advanced due to advances in tooling. We can "hard whirl" heat treated 60Rc spindles and the ballnut internals, this has reduced the cost of a precision C5 preloaded 16x5 flange style ballscrew from £240/meter ($440/36") to £140/meter ($252/36") obviously quantity reduces price. Similar rolled ballscrew £120/M.
Visit www.marchantdice.com

Pat
07-04-2005, 01:48 PM
Swede,

Very nice article!! What type lube would you recommend for the angular bearings in your bearing block and would you put a lip seal on it or a just a shield?

Regards,
Pat

marchantdice
07-04-2005, 02:26 PM
We use Kluber Isoflex NBU15. This is a high performance, high pressure synthetic lubricating grease, particularly suitable when extreme linear positional accuracy, precise repeatabality and low torque operation is required. It also offers exceptional stability in the presence of aqueous solutions, particularly water based cutting solutions.

Our bearing blocks are fitted with rubber seals as standard, these are fitted integral of the housing and locate on the assembly spacers. The bearings (matched pairs) are fitted with metal shields. All Ballscrew support blocks housings are certified for accuracy!

To view our bearing blocks http://www.marchantdice.com/ballscrews/bssalb.htm

Mat-C
07-15-2005, 05:36 PM
Thanks for this writeup... the time and effort taken is really appreciated.

Line on the rolled leadscrews: I would guess this is created first to give the displaced metal somewhere to go as it is forced out of the grooves? Or it might form naturally during the displacement process? (Wild guesses both).

OCNC
07-15-2005, 09:47 PM
couple questions:
1. how you determine motor size if you have that certain ballscrew size ?
any simple chart ? so if anyone build CNC, there is a minimum shaft size if they build CNC for certain size.
2. I have a situation hoping you can guide me.
I will build CNC about 1 meter by 1 .5 meter by 50cm Zdepth (all travel)
I will cut Wood, fiberglass epoxy mostly for molding.
this CNC for making a mold for bumper/spoiler/etc for cars, maybe dashboard.
I will use CNC to make molding from RHino 3D and others apps.
my questions:
1. how to calculate bearing/linear bearing/shaft/ballscrew etc ? basicly ?
2. how you calculate the motor size/torq. etc required ? how to choose stepper or servo for this purpose ?
3. can you explain the ballscrew specifications ? say how strong a ballscrew can move an Axis ?
4. can I ask more ?

regards
ruddy


Look under the 'Resouces' tab at www.roton.com (http://www.roton.com). There is information there related to many of your questions. You probably should have some idea of the feed speeds and forces on the cutter as well as the weight of any moving carriages. These would be your initial design parameters. The rest should follow from there. Then you can choose motors and drivers and power supply. The accuracy you are trying to achieve from the machine will also influence these choices.

Chris

Jason Marsha
07-17-2005, 12:55 AM
Excellent write-up about ball screws.

I was considering precision ACME threaded rod for my next home built machine, but I think I will spend extra for the ball-screws even if they are rolled.

Do you know the efficiency for the precision ACME threaded rod 1/2" -10 with multiple starts (1,2,5). I saw these rod at http://www.mcmaster.com/ or is it around 40% as well?

Jason

Xterrian
07-17-2005, 04:23 AM
Great write up! Any chance you can give an idea of the accuracy obtainable with just plain all thread rod? I'll probably have to use it until I build a few items with my CNC router. Would 3/8 all thread move a 36" X 24" gantry type router using 100 oz/in steppers? I plan on spending the majority of my money on the linear bearings. I don't care about speed and accuracy doesn't have to be that great either. I just need to be in the ball park. Half a mm would be better than I could hope for. Is that possible with all thread? Thanks again for the great article!
Randall

Mat-C
07-17-2005, 04:39 AM
Xterrian:

Not sure if you're metric or imperial, so I'll follow your lead and use both ;)

3/8 sounds fine to me... threaded rod is less efficient than acme because of the different angles, but only roughly 25% difference I'd hazard.

Repeatability will be good, accuracy (over longer ranges) less so. What's the pitch on 3/8 rod, around 1.5mm? Short range accuracy/repeatability should be at least a tenth of that, say around 0.15mm (wild guess), if your nuts are a good fit. Backlash and friction will be your bugbears.

Can't speak for the size of stepper you need, depends a lot on the size of your gantry, friction, mass, etc. Get it built and test it by trying to turn the rods yourself, measuring the force you want and the torque you need to apply, then multiply the torque needed by at least 20 to get your stepper size, because steppers are specified for holding torque, not the torque it can apply when moving. Also it needs additional torque to accelerate your gantry, and a bit more power never does any harm. (Disclaimer: the former is largely guesswork)

Jason: my guess is multiple starts will reduce efficiency further because the force is acting at a steeper angle to the resulting motion.

Xterrian
07-17-2005, 05:29 AM
I'm Imperial;)
My plan is to use 1" ID open linear bearings on a 1" supported hardened shaft for Y; Then .5" ID closed linear bearings on .5" oil hardened drill rod for X. My Z will be .75" ID closed linear bearings on .75" hardened shaft. (weird size choices I know, but those are what were available on E-Bay) I'll build the machine out of MDF and am guessing in the neighborhood of 20 pounds of weight to move around. I'll probably get it lower than that, but am trying to be conservative in my estimate. I plan on using thrust bearings on either end of a 1/2" thick delrin block for my all thread support at my driven end and a simple bearing at the far end. For my nut I plan to use the all thread to cut threads in another block of delrin. I just found the tutorial with formulas to estimate component sizes in the FAQ and am going to put my numbers in tonight and see what comes out. I plan on cutting mostly foam, MDF, Delrin, a little light wood now and then and one small part from 6061 Aluminum. I plan on using a small end mill and going extremly slow. I will probably end up making it smaller than my dream size, but want to make it big enough to upgrade later without buying new linear bearings and shafts. To think this all started because I wanted to turn an old printer into a stencil cutter. It just got bigger and bigger;)
Thanks again for the quick reply. This place is great! If I could just figure out how to stop reading thread after thread until early morning.
Randall

Jason Marsha
07-19-2005, 07:26 AM
Thanks Mat-C, I was curious as I never heard of multiple starts before.

Jason

ESjaavik
07-26-2005, 04:08 AM
Jason: my guess is multiple starts will reduce efficiency further because the force is acting at a steeper angle to the resulting motion.

Or it will increase the efficiency. (Actually it's the pitch that matters, the multiple starts just increase the load carrying capacity.) With a high pitch, the screw will rotate slower for a given speed. So less energy is wasted in accelerating and decelerating the ball screw. A high speed machine with a low pitch screw can waste more in accelerating the screw than the slide it is moving. Then you need a motor with higher torque, but slower speed.

To get a "seat of the pants" feeling for the efficiency, try to backdrive it. That is, try to get the screw rotating by pushing the nut along it. The low efficiency of an Acme screw then becomes quite easy to understand. So does the better efficiency of a high pitch ball screw.

marchantdice
07-26-2005, 05:18 AM
A word of warning, before everyone starts looking on eBay or firing off enquiries for multiple start screws; looking to increase load capacity and speed.
Preloaded Assemblies
1 Multi-start Rolled Ballscrews; I can guarantee that most multi-start rolled ballscrew assemblies are only loaded with balls in one track, or if more than one track is loaded most of the balls in the other tracks are doing nothing, just recirculating!!!
Just think about it; Rolled screw, manufactured by the "plastic deformation" process, it can be hard enough to preload one track!
To increase load capacity you need bigger balls, no pun intended!
2. Multi-start Ground ballscrews; Again we have the same issues, even with precision grinding in a controlled environment I guarantee that the second, third, fourth and fifth track are not taking there designated load (the first track is doing the majority of work) Take one apart, the balls in one track will be different sizes to overcome this issue!
One advantage of this is when the assembly requires a rebuild, just rotate the ballnut one track, fit new balls and your away!

Regards / Kevin
www.marchantdice.com/linear

daloveshack
08-19-2005, 12:18 PM
I'm wondering if we can use software to bring cheaper rolled ball screws to within ground ball screw tolerances. Theoretically, if you had high repeatability, but poor accuracy, all you need is just the right amount of compensation (facilitated by stepper motors with enough "steps"). If you could temporarily mount a high precision measuring device (at C0 or better tolerance) to the carriage that your ball screw is moving and then take measurements throughout the length of the ball screw for each step that your stepper motor takes. You should be able to get a map of where the stepper motor thinks it is and how far the ball screw actually moved.

Step
1_____2_____3_____4_____5________6___7______8_____9____10
|=====|=====|=====|=====|========|===|======|=====|====|
0_____6____12____18____24_______33__37_____44____50___55
Distance in microns


If you reverse this mapping, you'll know how far to turn the stepper motors to get the exact desired position. For instance (using the example map above) if my stepper is at step 6 @ 33 microns and I want to move the cutting head 10 microns to the left to a distance of 23 microns. Since that is closest to step 5, I would only move the stepper motor one step left to step 5 @ 24 microns. In a non-compensated system, I would have assumed that each step was = 6 microns so i would have moved 2 steps over to step 4 @ 18 microns.

I'm thinking the problem here might be having to re-zero the stepper motor with your calibration scale before zeroing your piece with your cutting head. For this you would have to define your "calibration zero point" as a spot that you could always move your cutting head to with PERFECT accuracy. That is the point that aligns your map with your ball screw so if you get it wrong, your accuracy might be horrible. Then after this step, your system will have to be able to count the number of "steps" it takes to actually zero the object.
This lets the software know where along the map the you actually are. Because the calibration is relative to your "calibration zero point", the software correction will need to take place where you can get access to the number of steps between the calibration zero and the zero of the object. This puts it in the realm of the stepper motor driver software and not at the g-code level.

The beauty of this solution is that once you have stored your "map" you can remove your high precision measuring equipment. My guess is that these laser measuring devices are quite expensive so if they are only needed for calibrating then a single device could be used to calibrate several cnc machines and the cost could be distributed amoung them.

What do you guys think? I'm only a newbie at this so forgive me if I got this all wrong.

ger21
08-19-2005, 01:25 PM
Mach3 can do screw compensation. The hard part is the measuring.

DieGuy
08-19-2005, 03:54 PM
I just bought one of these for $29 + shipping off ebay http://spectraservices.com/U6/images/CADILLACPLA-CHEK18INCH.jpg

If aligned to your axis of motion 1 inch incremental steps could be measured with a dial indicator. Also they are highly accurate for lesser distances. More than adequate for mapping the first order errors in the screw.

I just love a bargain! :banana:

daloveshack
08-19-2005, 04:24 PM
I was thinking of something more high-tech like the AR600 shown here: http://www.acuityresearch.com/products/index.shtml
I would imagine that a computer interface is a requirement since you don't want to manually make the thousands of measurements it would take to measure the entire length of the screw and then input them into a computer. (Ex 200 step motor x (12" screw/.200" travel per turn) = 12,000 steps/1' of screw, w/ 1/8 driver thats 96,000 steps!).

With that device you could zero your blank and cutting head, measure the distance of the cutting head to some reference pt, then step your motor through the various positions it will make during its cuts and make measurements to the ref at each step and input them into the computer. Still a very tedious task.

DieGuy
08-19-2005, 05:40 PM
I think laser displacement measuring is the dogs danglies as the brits would say, but most of the DIY machines here hardly support that kind of accurate geometry that would indeed make use of the linear displacement accuracy. Certainly not for $29 ;)

daloveshack
08-19-2005, 10:13 PM
Here's another idea I came up with. I'm not sure if my math here is correct so let me know if its not.
If you have a 1600 dpi optical mouse (like this http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2142,CONTENTID=10121) then I'm assuming that you can accurately measure movement as little as 1/1600in or .000625".
C5 is .0005" error but its over 12" so the mouse may not be very good at correcting screw errors.
Especially since mice are probably not so good with absolute positioning to begin with, but I bet they do real well at relative positioning.
That is if you move the mouse a small distances it will be fairly accurate, but over long distances it will probably loose track and start accumulating error.
With this in mind, you could use the optical mouse to create your own backlash compensator! It already senses in 2 axes and you already got your computer interface.
As long as your stepper motor's steps translates to movement >= .000625" you should expect to sense at least one tick from the mouse driver for each motor step.
If you don't sense the tick, then the stepper motor is taking up play in your system and you should take another step until you sense the appropriate number of ticks.

DieGuy
08-19-2005, 10:47 PM
Is it backlash or screw compensation your after?

Bloy2004
08-20-2005, 07:58 AM
I just bought one of these for $29 + shipping off ebay http://spectraservices.com/U6/images/CADILLACPLA-CHEK18INCH.jpg

If aligned to your axis of motion 1 inch incremental steps could be measured with a dial indicator. Also they are highly accurate for lesser distances. More than adequate for mapping the first order errors in the screw.

I just love a bargain! :banana:

What IS that device?

Splint
09-19-2005, 02:27 AM
Hi Swede,

thanks for such a good write up on ballscrews. I have a question. I have allways been taught that when tensioning bearings (like the front wheel bearings on a car) you tighten the nut until it bottoms out and then back it off slightly to allow clearance in the bearing for the grease to move between the race and the rollers, otherwise in a very short time the bearing will be damaged. Doing this allways left a very small amount of movement.

When tensinoning the bearings on the fixed end of a ballscrew should this rule still be applied or are shims used to control the clearence between the two inner races?

Cheers
Splint

NC Cams
05-23-2006, 01:59 PM
I'm posting a reply to get this to show up again as a current thread.

It bears bookmarking.

garagefela
05-24-2006, 02:32 AM
Regarding post number 32, is that a master height guage? Also called a Hommel if I remember corectly.

If so, how in the hell was that highly accurate instrument only $29? ( or did they charge $1000 shipping :) )

I used to use them in the toolroom on a surface table for component measuring. Using a dial indicator on a normal height guage you would zero the indicator on the part being measured then move the indicator over to the Hommel and place it at the nearest ledge ( proper name???) and use the dial on top of the Hommel to move the column of ledges up or down untill the dial indicator was back to the zero point.

Each ledge was 25 mm apart and the micrometer dial at the top only had a travel of about 25 mm. Obviously if the dial read 12.7mm and you were on the 100 ledge you would be at 112.7mm from the feet/table


Please correct me if I am wrong but it has been a while since I last used one.

(And if it's not a Hommel the jury will disregard what i just said)

Regards all M

thkoutsidthebox
03-26-2007, 04:29 PM
Hi all. I have come looking for info on ballscrews for my next machine, and this thread jumped out and bit me! :)

I know the thread is fairly old, but I have one question that maybe Marchant Dice ( Who I intend to buy from ;) ) or another knowlegeable person can answer:

On the Marchant Dice website they have Ground, Rolled, and Trapezoidal ballscrews. Im thinking that Trapezoidal may just be science talk for 'Multi-Start'.....is this correct?

Thanks.

marchantdice
03-26-2007, 04:47 PM
Hi all. I have come looking for info on ballscrews for my next machine, and this thread jumped out and bit me! :)

I know the thread is fairly old, but I have one question that maybe Marchant Dice ( Who I intend to buy from ;) ) or another knowlegeable person can answer:

On the Marchant Dice website they have Ground, Rolled, and Trapezoidal ballscrews. Im thinking that Trapezoidal may just be science talk for 'Multi-Start'.....is this correct?

Thanks.

Trapezoidal is a thread form (buttress in cross section). Design feature: does not backwind under load.

Zumba
03-26-2007, 05:31 PM
Trapezoidal is the metric equivalent of ACME.

marchantdice
03-26-2007, 05:48 PM
Trapezoidal is the metric equivalent of ACME.

I think we have a lunguage issue here:
We manufacture Metric and Imperial / Inch Acme and trapezoidal threads.
Acme thread form uses a 29 degree thread angle with flat apex and valley
Trapezoidal form uses a 30 degree thread angle and can have a rolled / rounded apex.

OCNC
03-26-2007, 05:56 PM
I think we have a lunguage issue here:
We manufacture Metric and Imperial / Inch Acme and trapezoidal threads.
Acme thread form uses a 29 degree thread angle with flat apex and valley
Trapezoidal form uses a 30 degree thread angle and can have a rolled / rounded apex.

Are trapezoidal threads always metric dimensions or can they be also be inch?

Chris

FPV_GTp
04-20-2007, 05:21 AM
wooooooooooooooo

very nice information , nice work

cheers

lgalla
04-21-2007, 01:30 AM
I am sure I missed this somewhere,but does a ballscrew have a gear ratio?eg
20mmdia pitch05mm
Thanks
Larry

ironDigit
07-19-2007, 06:02 PM
Hi there,

nice sumup swede!!

may i bother you to ask if the ground acme leadscrew has "zero"backlash

must be fun grinding a nut though.
Should i imagine like 5' abrasive acme leadscrew wich the nut are driven from one end to another until the abrasive screw stops wearing ?

THX alot

toastydeath
08-11-2007, 12:22 PM
Ground Acme screws have backlash (plenty of backlash), but also have a higher potential for linear accuracy than ballscrews do. High quality Acme screws can undergo further correction and finishing, whereas additional finishing on ballscrews upsets the thread form.

You can buy a hydrostatic leadscrew, which provides the positioning accuracy of an Acme screw with spit and polish, and the zero-backlash of a high quality ballscrew.

However, hydrostatic leadscrews are ridiculously expensive. Direct, uncorrected positioning to a couple millionths of an inch doesn't come cheap.

woffler
12-10-2007, 01:53 PM
were is a good place to purcase ball screws

woffler
12-10-2007, 03:07 PM
any one know the difference between rolled ball screw and a precision one .

NC Cams
12-10-2007, 04:03 PM
Difference 'tween rolled and precision are found in PRICE and ACCURACY, specifilally in how they spedify lead and repeatability..

The supplier of/for the screw has specs regarding both - they vary from maker to maker and accuracy class to class.

HIWIN is a good place to go for information on prrecision ground as opposed to rolled screws.

marchantdice
12-10-2007, 04:25 PM
Your question, use of terminology is incorrect as you are trying to compare a product that has an association with a factor of itself.

Precision is dependant upon a standard measurement, we call this class
Unfortunately there a various standards through out the world.

As a rule: Precision Ballscrews are equal to or better than Class 5, Rolled ballscrews fall into this standard when they can be assembled as preloaded.
Due to the process of manufactuing a rolled Ballscrew spindle only a few spindles in each batch fall into this class.

Lead is also a factor due to the plastic deformation process and heat treatment used when producing rolled spindles. Only certain leads are available as rolled.

woffler
12-11-2007, 08:07 PM
i foud some ball screws with the accuracy of c5 (.018/300mm) are these okay .they also have a double cut ballnut all greek to me .seems to be a good price any feed back would be welcome thanks so much to everyone for the help.

44propmaker
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Looking for the basics of what I need to know before I jump in and buy screws for my cnc router project. I just assume that ball screws are better??? What diameter???:confused: What pitch???

marchantdice
01-06-2008, 10:29 AM
Double cut refers to a ballnut which has flats machined on the locating flange as opposed to a fully round locatng flange, example see our Hiwin Ballnut: http://www.worldofcnc.com/main.asp?category=Ballscrews In Europe this style has a standard: DIN 69051, the flange drilling is at 30degrees to the centre line.

Class 5: for home use this is as good as it gets!!!!

i foud some ball screws with the accuracy of c5 (.018/300mm) are these okay .they also have a double cut ballnut all greek to me .seems to be a good price any feed back would be welcome thanks so much to everyone for the help.

marchantdice
01-06-2008, 10:55 AM
Confused, having read many ballscrew posts we understand your confusion, too many posts, someone in a professional manufacturing capacity must moderate!!!!

Don't jump in, your application may be more suitable for trapezoidal spindles.

To help....we require more information as our advice for machining steel is completely diffent to soft materials!

What material do you intend to machine, 80% of the time?
Spindle lengths: How long are the unsupported lengths? (from the fixed / motor drive end to the floating end?)
Can you supply a drawing?


Looking for the basics of what I need to know before I jump in and buy screws for my cnc router project. I just assume that ball screws are better??? What diameter???:confused: What pitch???

44propmaker
01-06-2008, 12:44 PM
Confused, having read many ballscrew posts we understand your confusion, too many posts, someone in a professional manufacturing capacity must moderate!!!!

Don't jump in, your application may be more suitable for trapezoidal spindles.

To help....we require more information as our advice for machining steel is completely diffent to soft materials!

What material do you intend to machine, 80% of the time?
Spindle lengths: How long are the unsupported lengths? (from the fixed / motor drive end to the floating end?)
Can you supply a drawing?
I think I will be machining .125 acrylics, up to 1" balsa wood and thin aluminum up to .060".
What do you think? Am I asking too much? As far as unsupported lengths... I'm not sure exactly what your referring to. Is it the amount of stock that would extend outside the cutting parameters?
I don't have any specific drawings of anything yet, This is just going to be a tool to add to my collection.

jrace2718
03-28-2008, 11:07 PM
Ok, I'm going to ask a really dumb question that I haven't seen discussed:

If I get a ballscrew and ballnut of whatever precision, can I take the nut off (I assume the nuts come assembled on the screw)? Do all the bearings just fall out? Can I get them back in or do I take pains to not let the nut get unscrewed all the way in the first place? Can I set the backlash myself or is it set at the factory by the size balls, etc?

Thanks. I am starting a build and I am deciding between ACME and ballscrews for wood routing.

NC Cams
03-29-2008, 06:31 AM
Can you take the nut off? Yes Would you want to? Hardly.

The replacement of the balls can be an exercise in futility as it is a PIA to do. Granted, it can be done and once you do it, the next time is easier. BUT the process is time consuming and not one that works well with SWAG or helter skelter processes. There are better and more productive things to do with your time.

The raceways that the balls travel thru are not simply curved radii like a gutter at a bowling alley. Rather they are a form of a gothic arch. This causes the balls to make 4 point contact - 2 points in the nut, two in the screw. Essentially, the balls make contact at points roughtly 45 degs off of vertical up and down on the nut and screw.

To adjust backlash, simply put in larger or smaller balls. BUT you only should change balls in 0.0001" increments. Hence, it is often a hit miss process of fitting severa size balls to get what you want for backlash. SInce you are working in tenths changes in ball diameter, the trick is to find a source of various diameter balls this accurate when/if you sit down to reset backlash in a ball screw/ball nut.

I used to source balls of this accuracy from Winstead Precision ball. Whether or not they have what you need or will still sell in small quantities is the problem. And, you have to buy HUNDREDS if not thousands of balls at a time - the Graingers and M-C's of the world dont' typically specialize in balls of this quantity, size differential and/or accuracy. Regarding accuracy, you want to get Grade 5 balls - there is a noticable difference 'tween 5's and anything less accurate.

Explanation: picture a go cart running on 4 different sized tires. It is easy to see how the tires would be unequally loaded. Same deal when you use Grade 5's versus 10's, 25's or even 100's to try to roll evenly and smoothly thru the ball path where you are essentially operating with metal to metal contact and ZERO radial/axial clearance. All of a sudden if larger or smaller balls come into play, things get noticeably harder or easier to turn.

Resettnig clearance in ball screws is NOT a hit or miss deal. Throwing a half thou SWAG change in ball size could result in locking the nut onto the screw and, worse yet, brinnelling the pall path. Once you brinnel the ball path, the screw is junk as you'll always have brinnell dents at that point and the screw will ALWAYS turn rough and sloppy at the damaged point.

Find a ball screw repair house and have them do it. It is not that expensive. In my case I know how to do it, know where to get EVERYTHING yet I still pay to have it done. That should say something about the process.

marchantdice
03-29-2008, 06:39 AM
(Ballnut, spindle and a few balls on the floor - what can go wrong?)
Ballnuts can be removed by the end use however as a ballscrew manufacturer we would not reccomend this as rebuilding can cause issues......

So remove the ballnut from the spindle and most of the balls will fall out.

Replacing the original balls, this is easily done using a mandrel (a tube machined to the same diameter as the spindle root diameter) insert the tube into the bottom of the ballnut, fill the first circuit advancing the mandrel as you go. 2nd, 3rd circuit etc etc.
Next place the spindle horizontal in a machine vice (use 2 peices of wood to protect the spindle) placing the start of the spindle thread in the 12 o'clock position. Carefully look in side the ballnut for the start of the first circuit and mark the position on the out side of the ballnut.
Slide the mandrel and ballnut over the end machining with the ballnut in the 12 o'clock position rotate the ballnut in a clockwise direction and the nut will advance down the spindle (like a nut and bolt) If the ballnut sticks, lightly tap the nut body.

You only learn by making a mistake......

Preloading, leave this to the manufacturers or a rebuild service.

jacek.jerzy
03-30-2008, 07:30 AM
This is all true with one exception - accuracy class of ground ballscrews! I worked for a ball screw manufacturer some years ago and this is my advice:
buy lower accuracy ground ballscrews because practically all classes of ground ballscrews have more or less the same high accuracy. This is due to the fact that ballscrews are ground on high precision CNC grinders. Such CNC grinder is not programmed differently for a lower accuracy class than for higher accuracy screw! Therefore, if a ballscrew manufacturer gets an order for e.g. 10 lower accuracy ballscrews he (they) will always use the same program and machine setup to make only 10 pieces - the same as if he had an order for 10 highest accuracy screws. Ror this reason I would never order anything higher than C5.

ironDigit
04-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Offcourse jazek, the manufacturer will use the same g-codes.
Though i'm sure that there will be a difference in the machining proces in regards of how many times the grindingstone will be dressed and how many cycles he will run it.Cycles meaning a tolerance check and regrinding when necessary.
I also can't see what would stop a manufacturer to put the 10 by "accidentally" C1 grade screws on stock and getting to charge some one that orders c1 much more for the same screws whilst just manufacturing you 10 different c5 screws.

I'ld like to hear what nccam has to say about this subject.

NC Cams
04-04-2008, 03:44 PM
Jwezy is right, that ball screw plant is pretty much geared to make one product accuracy grade. Hence, you can PROBABLY get away with the lowest accuracy part although you'll PROBABLY be getting high accuracy. SOMETIMES, the ONLY difference is the certification papers.

I know of an instance where the highpoint of eccentricity markings on a bearing were essendially phony. The bearings had NO perciptible or even measureable eccentricity BUT the market was so accustumed to seeing high point, markings, they put them on even though there was none.

Ditto that for this particular plant's ABEC ratings. The bearings were all ABEC 7 (ISO P4) or better, yet the bearings were packaged and priced to the order requirements that were made. Yes, ABEC 7's were packaged as 7's, 5's and even 3's, and priced pursuant to the market price for the corresponding grade of bearing.

Caveat: not all bearing companies do that sort of deal so you you CAN'T take this as a blanket claim.

Regardless of the application, the more accuracy you scrimp and save for and build into your machine, the better it will run/finish. In other words, buy the best you can't afford and you woun't be disappointed. Nobody I know of was ever disappointed from buying something better than they needed.

ironDigit
04-05-2008, 02:42 PM
that being said ,i must have completely misunderstood the manufacturing process of these beautiful tools referred to as ballscrews.I'll study more.

I guess one should keep track of wich manufacturer was the las tto upgrade their production machinery since they'll pro bably have most high-grade overstock.

my earlier response was stooled on the idea that flat and especially form/thread grinding requires frequent tolerance checks and adjustment for the wear of the grindingstone.
So i assumed a manufacturer will put more effort into the checking and adjusting of the higher then the lower grade screws.
'
The last i would like to state is that i think the "lower grade"precision ballscrews are way-deluxe for a hobbyist so you almost can't miss when acquiring screws that are in good condition.

CNCezee
04-16-2008, 03:59 PM
Hi Nice right up on b screws, but i have a question,
How do i calculate what torque i need to lift a given weight over a given distance with a Bscrew ( ground ) 5 tpi.

Any one help?

rajuraja123
08-16-2008, 05:51 AM
hello to all

thkoutsidthebox
08-16-2008, 08:17 PM
So speaking about starts......

If I have a single start screw, we'll say 1 TPI, rotating at 600rpm ..... it will travel 600ipm.

Now if I have a 4 start, same screw details....1 TPI, same speed, will it travel 2400ipm ?

and slightly off topic:

Will I need a stepper with 4 times the torque to turn it?

ironDigit
08-17-2008, 10:50 AM
1 TPI = 1 Turn Per Inch meaning that for every whole turn nut will be displaced 1inch so ,a 20start 1TPI screw will displace 1inch per turn

Sorry but i can't hel with the torque needs so when i have to pikk i just make sure i overkill ;).

Tony Mitchell
10-02-2008, 11:01 AM
Ok, I'm going to ask a really dumb question that I haven't seen discussed:

If I get a ballscrew and ballnut of whatever precision, can I take the nut off (I assume the nuts come assembled on the screw)? Do all the bearings just fall out? Can I get them back in or do I take pains to not let the nut get unscrewed all the way in the first place? Can I set the backlash myself or is it set at the factory by the size balls, etc?

Thanks. I am starting a build and I am deciding between ACME and ballscrews for wood routing.

can I take the nut off Yes.

Do all the bearings just fall out? Yes, they do.

Can I get them back in or do I take pains to not let the nut get unscrewed all the way in the first place? It's not easy to to put the balls back in. I've made a lot of money over the years by people thinking they can just put the balls back in, and tadaaaa! It's best that you try NOT to take the nut off of the screw. You will save time, money and aggravation.

Can I set the backlash myself or is it set at the factory by the size balls, etc? Is it a split nut (double nut)? If yes, you can set your own backlash. If it's a single nut, no you cannot.

If you are experiencing excessive backlash, it's a most likely it's a worn ball screw and needs to be re-balled or repaired.

What is the diameter & length? Is it a precision ground or rolled thread ball screw? Can you provide photos of the nut? There may be an adjustment on it.

jho5820705
10-07-2008, 08:10 PM
Very informative thread. Learned a lot about ballscrews here. My question is related to diameter of the ballscrew. If the ballscrew is turning at high rpm it will have a tendency to whip and not remain straight. The answer seems to be to use a larger diameter ballscrew that is more rigid to prevent this. Could you use the smaller diameter ballscrew if you drove the nut rather than the screw? I ask this because the larger screws get very expensive fast compared to the same length of a smaller screw.

thkoutsidthebox
10-12-2008, 07:33 AM
Very informative thread. Learned a lot about ballscrews here. My question is related to diameter of the ballscrew. If the ballscrew is turning at high rpm it will have a tendency to whip and not remain straight. The answer seems to be to use a larger diameter ballscrew that is more rigid to prevent this. Could you use the smaller diameter ballscrew if you drove the nut rather than the screw? I ask this because the larger screws get very expensive fast compared to the same length of a smaller screw.

I believe the answer is 'Yes', but I'm about as far from expert as your gonna get! :) I've looked at this, but found it difficult to get suitable nut's for driving from them.

Glacern
10-12-2008, 03:52 PM
I believe the answer is 'Yes', but I'm about as far from expert as your gonna get! :) I've looked at this, but found it difficult to get suitable nut's for driving from them.

Driving the nut is nothing new. However, as you've noted, suitable nuts aren't prevalent. Manufacturers typically recommend that the nut be mounted with the ball return guides facing up or sideways (if there are two opposing return guides).

There are some nuts designed specifically for fixed screws, but they're not cheap.

FREEFLOW
11-27-2008, 08:27 AM
Need help , I recently read an article on replacing the ball bearings . so I thought I would do it to refresh mine , after a close look found the bearing were out of round , replaced them and now cannot get them to stay in after being replaced , this is a dual barrel ballscrew , am I doing something wrong , I did not loose any parts , any help is appreciated.
Freeflow

Meganick
12-13-2008, 01:19 PM
Is it normal for preloaded rolled ball screws to feel "gritty" or bumpy as they are turned manually?

I am running Thompson Ball Nut 7820827 and Ball Screw 5707540 (Reid Supply TBS-412TBS-20) with wave washer preload 50-100lb on a RF-30 conversion. The position of the bumps are repeatable to some degree - if the nut is rotated slightly and then returned to the position of the bump. If I give the nut a bit spin and return to the original position of the bump, the size of the bump changes or disappears. Could this have something to do with balls entering or exiting the return tube? or just lining up differently? This is happening on all three axis. Cleaning and lubing each assembly did not help. I am going to try replacing (eBay) the ball bearings next. Any ideas what causes this or fixes?

-Nick

FREEFLOW
12-13-2008, 02:25 PM
I finally looked real close and found that all the balls are 2 and 1/2 thousanths differant in size , alternate loading untill the canister will not hold any more balls , this took care of the problem for me , I am yet to test for losing steps though , will comment after the test run ,
Regards
freeflow:)

15mgtar
08-08-2009, 06:56 AM
can I take the nut off Yes.

Do all the bearings just fall out? Yes, they do.

Can I get them back in or do I take pains to not let the nut get unscrewed all the way in the first place? It's not easy to to put the balls back in. I've made a lot of money over the years by people thinking they can just put the balls back in, and tadaaaa! It's best that you try NOT to take the nut off of the screw. You will save time, money and aggravation.

Can I set the backlash myself or is it set at the factory by the size balls, etc? Is it a split nut (double nut)? If yes, you can set your own backlash. If it's a single nut, no you cannot.

If you are experiencing excessive backlash, it's a most likely it's a worn ball screw and needs to be re-balled or repaired.

What is the diameter & length? Is it a precision ground or rolled thread ball screw? Can you provide photos of the nut? There may be an adjustment on it.

Ok, but I relly need to take the nut off in order to machine it. Can someone show me how to take it off correctly?

Mike Everman
08-10-2009, 05:16 PM
Ok, but I relly need to take the nut off in order to machine it. Can someone show me how to take it off correctly?
Make a rod or tube that is a bit smaller in diameter than the minor diameter of the ballscrew grooves, and longer than the nut. You can then run the nut off the end and on to the rod.
If the end of the screw is machined, then you need this to be a tube so the tube can go right up to the end of the threads.

The rod/tube will keep the balls where they should be and as long as you don't let that come out, you'll be fine. I usually put a zip tie on each end so bumping it doesn't get you in trouble.

kostas1
09-18-2009, 06:11 PM
Hi Swede,
It was nice article..I learned a lot and I have some questions about my machine which I started to build...I already have 3 640 oz-in Keling motors,3 Geckos 203V, 1 KL-6515 power supply and the C11 board...(waiting for the chinese spindle of 2.2kW)

What I would like to know now is what ballscrew to use?My machine will be 1x1.5m and I 'll mostly cut wood and some cuts of aluminium...I want it to be a bit fast and wonder if 5mm pitch is the right one or should I go to 10mm pitch?If my max motor RPM is 1200, then with the 5mm pitch I'll have 236.22 IPM right? Doubling it to 10mm I ll have 472.44IPM...

What would you suggest to do?I am quite confused and don't want to waste money..

Thanks in advance...
Kostas.

ger21
09-18-2009, 06:53 PM
If my max motor RPM is 1200, then with the 5mm pitch I'll have 236.22 IPM right? Doubling it to 10mm I ll have 472.44IPM...


It's not that simple. How much torque will you have at 1200rpm? If you want to move at 472ipm, you'll need enough force to accelerate up to that speed. If using Mach3, acceleration is linear, so you'll need the same force at 450ipm as you do at 20ipm, during acceleration. But the torque drops off as rpm's increase.

My guess would be to go for the 10mm lead.

phungi
09-18-2009, 08:00 PM
Get the 10mm, gear down for 5mm resolution if needed.

kostas1
09-19-2009, 02:12 AM
Gerry:thanks for the answer...I don't want to move at 472IPM...I'll be very satisfied with 300IPM also.We talk about rapid speed now and 472IPM is the theoretic speed given the motors' power and ballscrew pitch...

Phungi:thanks...What do you mean by this?
Get the 10mm, gear down for 5mm resolution if needed.

How could I gear down to 5mm if I already bought 10mm?

Thanks..

ger21
09-19-2009, 07:17 AM
Phungi:thanks...What do you mean by this?


How could I gear down to 5mm if I already bought 10mm?

Thanks..

Use a belt and pulleys to connect it to the motor. If you need more power, put a smaller pulley on the motor. If you need more speed, put a smaller pulley on the screw.

kostas1
09-19-2009, 10:47 AM
Ok, understood...
So the best way to make it from the beginning is to use this pulley?
What if I firstly connected the motor directly to ballscrew and some other day decided to also put a pulley?Will it be feasible or I had to change the machine's design?

Thanks and sorry but I am a beginner...
Kostas.

Zappautomation
09-19-2009, 03:03 PM
Adding a belt and pulley or any gearing will reduce the amount of power you will be getting at the load.
Gearing has losses so if the efficiency of your gearing is 90% then you will loose 10% of the input power to heat.
While you will increase the torque or speed, the output power will be lower.
the best way is to directly couple the motor to the ball screw, this reduces the losses and also any backlash or hysteresis that can be associated to gearing.
You need to make a decision on the actual speeds you need, look at the torque curves of the motor and driver combination and then work out the lead of the screw so to get the optimum amount of power to the load.

Al_The_Man
09-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Adding a belt and pulley or any gearing will reduce the amount of power you will be getting at the load.
Gearing has losses so if the efficiency of your gearing is 90% then you will loose 10% of the input power to heat.
.

I am not sure I follow this? The torque will increase by the ratio of reduction, e.g. for 2:1 your torque will double, even if you lose 10% in efficiency, your torque has increased to almost double, besides that your load to motor inertia ratio will will be reduced by the square of the reduction, for 2:1 this will be reduced by 4.
The industry recommended target for this is 10:1 or less.
Al.

Zappautomation
09-19-2009, 03:29 PM
im talking about actual power, and any gearing will reduce the actual power.
Inertia also needs to me considered, but it is better to use a larger motor with a higher inertia than to use gearing to get the inertial mismatch within the 10:1.
The use of gearing is personal preference only, i prefer not to use it if i don’t have to.



I am not sure I follow this? The torque will increase by the ratio of reduction, e.g. for 2:1 your torque will double, even if you lose 10% in efficiency, your torque has increased to almost double, besides that your load to motor inertia ratio will will be reduced by the square of the reduction, for 2:1 this will be reduced by 4.
The industry recommended target for this is 10:1 or less.
Al.

kostas1
09-19-2009, 04:19 PM
Hi,
my machine is 1x1.5 so is it ok to put 1 ballscrew in the middle of the axis and this move the 25kg gantry in 1500mm length? This link (http://www.nookindustries.com/ball/BallCalculators.cfm) includes calculators and here (http://www.nookindustries.com/engineering/calculators/CriticalSpeedMetric.cfm) you can calculate the critical speed of the gantry..so given the 16mm ballscrew diameter in 1500mm length with end fixity=D, we take 1917RPM...
I'll be happy with ~400IPM rapids and ~200-250IPM cutting speed in wood...
What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Kostas

Al_The_Man
09-24-2009, 02:11 PM
Here is an excellent reference by SKF.
http://www.divshare.com/download/8629204-fa4
Al.