I have started a build on a 6 X 12 table for a Dynatorch gantry. I am at the point of truing up and leveling, squaring and so on. Any thoughts on how to properly accomplish this? I do not have a jig or even a very flat spot to layout something this big. So I will be relying on traditional methods. Thanks for ANY input!

No doubt you know about measuring the diagonals for square.

For flat, stretch thin wires tightly acroos the frame on the diagonal.

Make sure all the ends are firmly in contact with the surface of the metal not held up by a bead of weld.

With everything pulled very tight see if the two wires touch at the center; if they do not touch the frame is twisted with the corners for the top wire higher than the others.

If they do touch reverse their position so what was the top one is now the bottom and again see if they touch in the middle.

If they touch with either on top your frame is flat to withing the diameter of the wire.

I assume I would stretch them as close to the corners as possible (similar to measuring the diagonals), making an "X" and clamping with C clamps or vise grips? This would also show movement as you tack and gusset (providing you can work around the wire).

Thanks!

I just finished the welding stage on my table. I used a precision level to make sure the two side frames had no twist. You can get one on eBay reasonable. Then sell it when you're done.

I assume I would stretch them as close to the corners as possible (similar to measuring the diagonals), making an "X" and clamping with C clamps or vise grips? This would also show movement as you tack and gusset (providing you can work around the wire).

Thanks!

That is the idea.

If you are going to have the wires clamped there as a reference while you are welding here is a slight modification. Clamp the top wire on a spacer about 1/4" thick at each end. Now when the frame is straight there will be a 1/4" gap between the wires where they cross; if it is larger than 1/4" your the corners with the packing are high and of course if it is less they are low.

WSS, I found that metal saw horses work well. When I built my 5 x 10 table I placed the main frame sections ( 3 x 8 x 3/16 tube ) on top of 6 saw horses and then used shims to level the frame before finish welding. A 6' to 8' level can be used to help get all the frame sections leveled. Once I had the main frame level I welded on the legs with adjustable levelers in the bottom. Mind you the legs were not touching the floor as the the main frame was still being supported by the saw horses.

I purchased the levelors at Enco. I used the 3/4" stud with 3" diameter base.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=504&PMITEM=990-2062 Each leveler will hold 7400 lbs.

Once the legs were in place I used my fork lift to raise the table one side at a time and removed the saw horses. Once the table was on the floor I used the levelers to re - level the table. You can then finish building the table.

It has been 3 years since I built my table. It is a standard style table. Dynatorch has come out with so many new features I thought it was time to upgrade. I am waiting for one last shipment from Dynatorch and the upgrade will begin. I will be adding the drop side option and if I can make it work with the existing hardware it will be a (dual drop), a new laser locator (their first ones were battery powered), the DASH system and the Dynascribe. The Dynatorch guys have been great at helping me with the up grade parts.

I will post some pictures when I get started. Here is the thread with pics of my existing table. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26227&page=8

magma-joe,
I worked this past weekend on the legs and long axis supports. I managed to get them straight and true. The design is almost modular, as the slat supports and the gantry rails will be separate but bolted to the same 5" I-beam. The legs are 5X5X1/4" w/6X6X1" plates for feet. I will get it up off the ground however and use some sort of shimming device to get everything in line (great idea). I will use the wire trick too mentioned by Geof. I have a box straight edge/level that is 8' that should help with some of the flats.

I am most interested to see your build! A dual drop would be pretty cool. You went all the way it looks like. Just the DASH and the dynascribe are a shedload. Will you retrofit or build new? I have looked at pics of your table many times when I was drawing ours. The guys a DT have been very accommodating for us here. I spoke with Mike at DT yesterday and he said it can ship when I am ready. I am hoping to ship in the first week of August

I will post some pics after this weekends round of work. I have been busy this last month with other stuff in our shop, it has picked up a bit (yeah). I think that is part of murphy's law. I wish time really was like money and I could put some in the bank!

All suggestions are very good from everyone and very similar techniques that I have used on projects. I dont think anyone mentioned welding techniques. Tak (sp) everything first real good and check for level,twist,square...etc after each couple of taks, things can move so keep checking. If things are not in the correct position cut the welds back off and start over it will only get worse trust me.... Once everything looks good dont keep welding in one area move around to different spots randomly. 6' x 12' is a pretty large table, as the numbers go up the tolerances go down a little, so I wouldnt expect perfection..

WSS,
What a great collection of wisdom on the cnc zone! Like you, I spent many hours (days) looking at different table designs and styles. I soon realized that although building the table square and level is important, it is not critical. The main goal is to have a level cutting surface. Once the table frame is built, even if it is out of square or not level, you will still have another opportunity to level the cutting surface when you install the slat holders.

If you have looked at my pictures you have noticed I used 3 x 3 square tube floating x axis rail mounts. This design alows for adjusting your gantry rails INDEPENDANT of your table. This will again allow you another oportunity to compensate for errors in the frame. It also makes it easy to perfectly align the x axis V rails and gear rack in ANY direction.

I am excited to upgrade my machine. I will be modifying my existing table. Your gantry will be the latest and greatest that Dynatorch has to offer so I am playing catch up. I am sure you will be happy once you get your machine up and running. Proper planning now will pay off later with nice precision cuts. I will post some pictures soon.

I built my DT table using there drawings, the only difference is i went with 1/4 tubing instead of 1/8, the 2 end cross peices have the gusset welded to them and bolted through the legs, both rails are the same length so like mentioned above i measured corner to corner to square it up then tightened the bolts.. i had made some simple height ajustment legs using large nuts/bolts/washers because my cement floor isn't level, they are crude but they work, i check the squareness of my table from time to time when i am cutting square peices, so far it hasnt moved as the peices are bang on.
I cut the slat support notches in the angle iron using my chop saw, so they arent all exactly the same depth, but close... i off set the center slat support notches to the center of the 2 outside ones which give my slats a nice bow running from one side to the other.
I think squareness is more important than level, your table can be perfectly level but the sheet you are cutting might not be meaning the thinner material thats is warped or becomes warped when cutting... but the thc takes care of that..
On a after thought i remember now wishing i had welded the leg height adjustment knobs on first, it would have made my life alot easier at the time instead of trying to shim them with whatever i could find.

EDD

I hope this thread will continue to add tips and tricks! This type of knowledge really speeds the build. I managed to (with the help of my wife) get it all laid out and true! It was certainly quicker once I had an idea and direction. I am posting the dxf converted to a jpg of the end and back (high) side. I will post some build progress later this weekend.

Thanks again!!
:D

Some simple idea I got...


Materials you need:

4 transparent tubes (acryllic/glass)

Waterhose that will fit to the tubes

1 piece of 4-way distributor

1 piece of 3-way distributor (optional)



Mount the 4 transparent tubes in a vertical position at each corner to your base and interconnect them with hoses, with help of the 4-way distributor. Now fill water into the "system" and at point you will see the water raise in all of the tubes. You can be absolutely sure that the waterlevel in the tubes are in perfect level with each other (thank you nature). As you may already have guessed, the goal is to make the top of the base corners, level to the water in the tubes.

The 3-way distributor may be inserted to the system, making it easier to let water in and out.


Brian

At the time i bought my DT i had more money than time, i work away from home for months at a time so i wanted a cnc plasma ready to go with minimum time spent getting it ready.... When i ordered my DT i (thought) i had ordered the table etc complete, as i didnt even a welder yet nor did i think i had the skills to build my frame as i thought it had to be perfect in every way... I was away when it was shipped to my house, my wife sent me pics and when i looked at them something didnt seem right... anyways when i got back home i relised the table wasnt included in the shipment, i checked my order and sure enough i didnt order it!!!! my mistake....
Anyways it was buy and wait for the table or buy the material and tools to make my own, i had the DT drawing so i decided to jusy do it myself... I was holding off buying a welder etc for later on, but went and bought a small Hobart Mig, i had the steel supplier cut all the peices to length from the drawing and just put it together like a puzzle, it really was'nt that hard to do, i was nervous about everything until i mounted the gauntry and it fit perfect, everything turned out fine... im actually glad i did it this way, i was able to use a heavier gauge tubing, saved some money, and the machine seems more personel now, i can stand back and say , yeah i built that... I have some pics somewhere from my build, i'll try and find them and post a few if i get a chance... so to me just keep it simple, level and square the best you can and get cutting steel... best of luck..

EDD

At the time i bought my DT i had more money than time, i work away from home for months at a time so i wanted a cnc plasma ready to go with minimum time spent getting it ready.... When i ordered my DT i (thought) i had ordered the table etc complete, as i didnt even a welder yet nor did i think i had the skills to build my frame as i thought it had to be perfect in every way... I was away when it was shipped to my house, my wife sent me pics and when i looked at them something didnt seem right... anyways when i got back home i relised the table wasnt included in the shipment, i checked my order and sure enough i didnt order it!!!! my mistake....
Anyways it was buy and wait for the table or buy the material and tools to make my own, i had the DT drawing so i decided to jusy do it myself... I was holding off buying a welder etc for later on, but went and bought a small Hobart Mig, i had the steel supplier cut all the peices to length from the drawing and just put it together like a puzzle, it really was'nt that hard to do, i was nervous about everything until i mounted the gauntry and it fit perfect, everything turned out fine... im actually glad i did it this way, i was able to use a heavier gauge tubing, saved some money, and the machine seems more personel now, i can stand back and say , yeah i built that... I have some pics somewhere from my build, i'll try and find them and post a few if i get a chance... so to me just keep it simple, level and square the best you can and get cutting steel... best of luck..

EDD


That is a pretty big project to get your feet wet with! Please post some build pics if you get a chance. I just finished for the day and am getting along OK. It was over 100f again today in so cal. So we are moving at a crawl it seems like.

I will post some progress pics later this week, I know magma-joe is doing a retro also, should we start a DT retro/build picture thread on the Dynatorch area? Anyone?

Cheers
Tommy

WSS, I am almost ready to start the upgrade to my table. I am now waiting for the last shipment, which is a pair of new linear rails for the y axis carriage. Unfortunately UPS seems to have lost them. I will do a trace on Monday. Once they arrive I will start a new thread and post some pics of all the parts.

Building your own table is alot of work but very rewarding. Extra credit goes to Edwardo for taking the challenge. Edwardo, that was a good idea you had using 1/4 tube for your rails. The more ridgid the table the better.

I still enjoy using my table just as much as I did when I cut my first parts. Something about having an idea in your mind and within minutes seeing it cut out on the table?

I got the started on the idea of an upgrade a few months ago when I saw this 6 x 20 Dynatorch table with a Hypertherm Hyspeed plasma. Lucky for me this table was just a few miles from my shop. Here are some pics. This table, like mine, has the aluminum extrusion gantry. The latest Dynatorch machines have upgraded to an all steel (3/16") gantry and y axis carriage.

Nice table, the first thing that caught my eye was the height of his slats, looks like he used 6" slats where mine are 3".... i dont know his reason for using the higher slats but i had thought of converting mine like his as my torch is clamped into the holder about 2/3 of the way up... with my z axis all the down my nozzle is at the height of the top of the slats... it seems with this much of the torch below the clamp and the z axis extended it has a tendency to pick up any vibration from the table and magnify it at the nozzle which shows up on the cuts, mabe its from something else i dont know, but i was thinking with 6" slats i could move my torch up another 3" in the clamp, or at least be able to cut with the z axis sitting at mid point instead of almost fully extended which may give it more stability.
One other thing i have noticed with the drop side style table is the aluminum plate that is cut out for the motor to sit in on the slave side has movement to and away from the gear rack... with the rexroth air piston pushing the gear into the gear rack the aluminum plate does flex out and when i home my torch against the stops the gear tends to try and crawl out of the gear rack and keep turning, if i increase the air psi to put more force on the gear, the aluminum plate just moves that much further away from the gear rack, so my quick cure at the moment is to just push in by hand on the rexroth cylinder when i home it against the stops, and it is ok, but, personally i think a "V" rail on the slave side would be alot better, or a gusset to strengthen the aluminum plate... just my thoughts

EDD

Edwardo, I am not sure but I think the extra thickness for the slats is to support the large and thick sheets of material. His Hypertherm Hyspeed plasma could easily do 1" thick steel. Everything is loaded on the table with a forklift.

Im doing some reno's on my house for a week or so, then will be working with my table, i'll take some pics or vids, its no big deal as it only happens when i home against the stops when i first start up, after that i home to the corner of the plate... i think the gusset would be the best fix if its even needed.
Im not to keen on redrilling holes, i hate messing around with stuff like that in case i screw it up, if i ever need to replace the slats i may go higher on them, but again its not a problem, just a thought...
Cant wait to finish this reno and get at the metal, i knew if i started cutting steel i would never even start with drywall and 2x4's.... gotta keep the better half happy though... have a good one
EDD

Hey guys,
A couple of questions: What is the usual slat size? I have 3/16" x 4" x 84.25" and they are held upright by flats welded in a 3x3x1/4" angle at a angle making a triangle. The flats are 3"x3.25". So the flats are exactly 3" apart with a gap to fit the 3/16" slat. The second jpg in post 11 shows a side view. Is this enough or would a center support be beneficial?

Second question: does the flex from the drop side aluminum bracket flex or jump when doing rapids? I was curious about this isssue but assumed DT had it worked out, would a gusset be enough to fix it?

Hope all had a great weekend!
Tommy

WSS, I cut thin material with plasma only on my table. I have 3" x 3/16" slats. I know you also plan on using a oxy torch on your table so you might consider something bigger. This is a post from another thread;

07-02-2009, 07:59 PM
Alan Bradford Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 18


Oxy Fuel cutting 2 inch steel will eat up 1/4 inch slats. Most people will use 1/4 by 6 or 8 inch wide slats. The oxy fuel will only notch the top section of the slats.
Another trick is to fill your table with water to about 3/4 inch below the material. This will slow down the cutting of the slats.
Also put your slats on a 30 degree angle. Your less likely to cut right down a slat then when they are straight across the table.
__________________
Alan Bradford
www.plasmatechnologies.com

I agree with Joe, and it never has missed or skipped at anytime except when i home against the stops, i think when i start up i will call Leon and ask him about it as maybe it could be something in my settings also ...

EDD

Well guys as fate would have it i was called back to work early, i have to leave again on Wed.... should be back around mid Aug sometime.... good luck on your builds and retro fits.... this is the first time since owning my table i havent even had a chance to light it up on a break and its a real downer...
:confused:

EDD

Edwardo, have a safe trip, sounds like you won't be gone for long. Besides, having work in this economy is a good thing.

After reading your post about your slave motor I looked in the Dynatorch manual. On page 27 it explains how to adjust the motor torque for hard stop homing. Your torque must be set to high.

My final shipment for the Dynatorch upgrade arrived today with the y axis linear rails. I will start a new thread and post some pics tomorrow of all the parts.

Thanks Joe

I'll check that out first, i set up everything talking to Leon at the same time so i never really gave the setting much more thought after that...
Looking forward to your new thread and pics...

EDD

Well guys as fate would have it i was called back to work early, i have to leave again on Wed.... should be back around mid Aug sometime.... good luck on your builds and retro fits.... this is the first time since owning my table i havent even had a chance to light it up on a break and its a real downer...
:confused:

EDD

Edwardo,
Does this mean you will have twice the time to cut when you get back or will you have to split it with hanging drywall?

:stickpoke

It turned onto one of thoughs tv shows were it comes down to the wire to get it all done in time, well its as done as its going to be for now.... just the ceramic tile to do when i get back... the good thing is i didnt have time to unpack so im ready to go... Aculpoco tommorow night....:wee:

EDD