Hi everyone :)

I've been lurking the forums for a few months, and finally decided to post up. I'm planning to order a Taig in the next week or 2. I'm getting the CNC ready version and installing the steppers myself. I'm a mechanical engineer and machinist wanna be. This will be a learning experience, no doubt. My plan is to keep expenses as low as possible to get started and slowly build up my tool collection over time. I'm trying to stick with the bare minimum for startup.

now for the questions:
1. Will this indicator and holder work for tramming the mill?

(It's the set at the bottom left corner of the page)
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=365&PMITEM=606-4704

I know that this is a cheepo, and I will end up replacing it sooner or later. I'm just wondering mainly if this is the right style of holder and better than getting the magnetic base type or something.

2. One of the first parts I need to make (if it's possible) is an aluminum piece about 4.5 x 6 and 1.25 tall. The piece needs to be shelled out to make about 1/8" walls and floor. I know that's a lot of material and will take a long time, but can the Taig cut a 1" deep pocket in aluminum like that?

3. If so, will the vice that comes with the Taig hold this piece, or do I need to go ahead and get a set of clamps with it? If so, can someone recommend a good set of cheap clamps, or should I machine my own?

Thanks in advance for the help! All of the details to work out to even get this project off the ground are making me feel like this --> :drowning:

Hi everyone :)

I've been lurking the forums for a few months, and finally decided to post up. I'm planning to order a Taig in the next week or 2. I'm getting the CNC ready version and installing the steppers myself. I'm a mechanical engineer and machinist wanna be. This will be a learning experience, no doubt. My plan is to keep expenses as low as possible to get started and slowly build up my tool collection over time. I'm trying to stick with the bare minimum for startup.

now for the questions:
1. Will this indicator and holder work for tramming the mill?

(It's the set at the bottom left corner of the page)
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=365&PMITEM=606-4704

I know that this is a cheepo, and I will end up replacing it sooner or later. I'm just wondering mainly if this is the right style of holder and better than getting the magnetic base type or something.

[No, I don't think so. Those are made to fit a Bridgeport, which has a quill about 3" in diameter. The Taig doesn't really have a quill - the whole headstock goes up and down - and the part (the spindle nose) you'd have to hold onto for tramming is about an inch in diameter. If you were clever, I suppose you could weld something onto a spare closer nut that would hold a dial indicator, but most people just use a fly cutter.]


2. One of the first parts I need to make (if it's possible) is an aluminum piece about 4.5 x 6 and 1.25 tall. The piece needs to be shelled out to make about 1/8" walls and floor. I know that's a lot of material and will take a long time, but can the Taig cut a 1" deep pocket in aluminum like that?

[Not all at once, of course, but it could nibble away at it until it got there.]

3. If so, will the vice that comes with the Taig hold this piece, or do I need to go ahead and get a set of clamps with it? If so, can someone recommend a good set of cheap clamps, or should I machine my own?

[There's no way you could hold a 4.5" x 6" part in the Taig vise or even two of them - it only opens to about 2.5". You'd be better off holding it with strap clamps, assuming you've got something left on the ends to hold onto. No there aren't any "good cheap" clamps for the Taig, but they aren't hard to make. (You can use the vise to hold them...)]

Thanks in advance for the help! All of the details to work out to even get this project off the ground are making me feel like this --> :drowning:

[It sounds like you're overthinking this with not enough information to go on. Get the mill and look at it - a lot of this will be clearer once it's sitting there in front of you.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

Ok... well, that wasn't exactly helpful, dude. (nuts)

I know I can figure this stuff out on my own, I just wanted to hit the ground running. If I had the tools needed to tram the mill and hold my first part, it would be a big bonus. I'm eager to get this thing setup, and that's why I'm a little long winded. I apologize, if my questions are a little silly. :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dial-indicator-Lever-type-VERDICT-jewelled-0-005mm-P_W0QQitemZ260385977263QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Measuring_Tools_Levels?hash=item260385977263&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50

You Could use a DTI like this, maybe from a USA source.

Its as easy as bending a 1/4" dia bar at 90 degrees holding in chuck or collet and fixing the "Clock" in the appropriate place.

Think positive your an engineer, you make stuff.

Another tip is to run the clock on a piece of flat stock so you don't jerk the reading.

As regards clamps the mitee bite seem good but i have no idea on cost.

You will end up spending more on various tooling than the cost of the machine.

HTH
Phil

That part may be a bit big for a Taig honestly. If you don't mind using a set of clamps to hold it in place and indicating the part in then the Taig will be fine. Otherwise you're going to need a big vice... There's not enough room between the column and the center of travel to mill anything bigger then ~2.75" with a toolmaker vice. You can get out to 3.75" with the riser block. Regardless your part is almost another inch wider then that.

So, that means you'd need a vice big enough to mount sideways -- This probably being your best bet (http://www.shars.com/products/view/149/Precision_Toolmakers_Vise_7quot).

As for the indicator, that mount probably won't work. Reason being is its meant for a Bridgeport, the clamping diameter is 1 7/8" The Taig spindle nut is only about 1.125" in diameter so its not going to fit well.

DeusExMachina has you going in the right direction.

From that same company: http://www.shars.com/products/view/7598/Axial_Support_Holder

And: http://www.shars.com/products/view/1963/030quot_Dial_Test_Indicator

Shars doesn't have the best stuff but it's good enough to get you started and they keep getting better.

Bending a 1/4" rod works well if you have the attachment that holds the indicator to the rod laying around. They're a bit hard to find these days.

The Taig will cut you're part but it's a bit ambitious for a beginner. Start cutting some hardwood blocks to practice on.

Do you have software?

Order 123 blocks while you're at it so you have something to indicate over.

Cheers,
Walt

First, I would suggest against buying that indicator holder. I have a very similar looking one that I bought from Shars. As DeusExMachina said, the problem is the diameter of the clamp is too large (or the Taig spindle is too small, depending on how you look at it). The only way I have been able to use mine is I first install a boring head, then attach the clamp to it. The one I bought also came with a very cheap dial test indicator which works-like-crap. It was almost a complete waste of money.

If you're willing to buy something JUST for tramming I would highly recommend the EZ-Tram - Nano-Tram with 3/8" shank. Personally, I got mine from Little Machine Shop (http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2715&category=).
It's a little more money than that indicator/clamp set and, like I said, it only has one purpose... but the name is accurate; it is E-Z!
Here's a review by Nick Carter (http://www.cartertools.com/nanotram.html).
They also sell a "base" which I think is superfluous. I suppose it would be handy if you needed to re-tram your machine in the middle of a job though.

Aboot the Taig vise. First of all, it is not big enough for the job you have in mind. I think it's max opening is around 3".
Should you buy it? That's a tough call.
The Shars vises are real nice, but they're not easily attached to the mill. If you can find/make some clamps without using the mill I'd suggest going straight to the toolmakers vise. If I were buying one today I'd probably buy the 5" toolmakers vise from Shars (find my post on this thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77319) for more info).

One more thing: As DeusExMachina also said, with the default setup the Taig really only has ~2.75" of travel with a toolmakers vise mounted perpendicular to the bed. Adding a 1" spacer to the spindle will increase that to ~3.75". I came up with a mod that you can do to the Taig that will give you up to about 4.5" of Y travel with a perpendicular toolmakers vise. Here's a thread (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77518) with a bunch of pics/renders (and a video) showing the mod.


Do the outside dimensions of the part you want to make need to be precise?

Welcome to the forum. One good place to look for relatively inexpensive measurement equipment is grizzly.com. While many of the places on the web all buy stuff from China Grizzly seems to do a lot better job at quality control. I'm fortunate enough to have one of their distribution centers not too far from me so I've had the opportunity to see most of the stuff in person. The only things they carry that I would not recommend are the Grizzly branded handheld electrical tools.

For holding the part your taking about cutting I think you will find that any type of vise will take up a lot of room on the table. A vise is good for small quick jobs but for most things it is usually better to use some sort of fixturing. Fortunately there are many other ways to do work holding.

One very versatile way is to use a tooling plate such as a Taig 2010. It has 56 10-32 tapped holes on 1" centers. This would let you bolt down a couple of blocks to use as stops (so you can locate the workpiece in exactly the same place every time. Then you could use toggle milling clamps such as these (http://www.peck-polymers.com/store/Category.asp?Cguid={F19BDD22-520D-48B5-91CD-D77E92616F84}&Category=WorkHolding%3AMillingClamps) to hold down the piece (or regular milling clamps). I would also recommend getting a set of the A2Z T-nuts for the Taig mill. They are 100 times better than the little square nuts that Taig uses.

I handle the Taig machines and A2Z stuff as well. I'm in the process of switching my website over to a new shopping cart so not everything is online at present. Feel free to give me a call if you have any questions (see contact us tab on website, link below.)

Thanks to everyone for the replies! I think I've got my start up order list hammered out.

Phil H, I hear you on spending on the tooling. I'm going to leave about $500 from my budget unspent and save it for the tools I don't know I need yet.

DeusExMachina, I think clamping and indicating the piece is exactly the route I will go. I don't mind the extra work, since I will only make one (if it comes out right). I like that vice, and I added it to my "wish list" for things to by later on.

doanwannapickle, thanks for those recommendations. I'm going to get both of those items you linked, as well as some other stuff from that store. Like I said, I'm trying to use cheap stuff and upgrade to nice stuff later on. I think I have some hardwood that would be thick enough for the part, but I still need to work on a source for practice material. I use SolidWorks at work and have access to Mastercam at work too. My first parts will be for work, I'd like to look into open source cad/cam programs for designing stuff at home.

Hirudin, thanks for the advice. I've put the ez tram on my wish list too. Your mod looks interesting, I bookmarked the link. Most of the outside dimensions can be +/- .020 but there's a lip at the top that needs to be +/- .005.

Jeff-Birt, thanks. pm sent

I was having trouble finding the t-slot width on the taig. Is it 1/2"? I'm wondering if this is the right clamping kit: This kit work?: http://www.shars.com/products/view/584/12quot_38quot16_52pc_Clamping_Kit

I asked about the outside dimensions because the 4.5" of Y travel available with my mod isn't enough to cut the outsides of a 4.5" part (because of the diameter of the end mill). So, for that part you'll probably want to go with that 7" toolmakers vise. The other option is to size the stock to exactly 4.5" before putting it into a perpendicularly mounted toolmakers vise.

The slots on the Taig are a little larger than 0.25" wide* with 1" spacing**.

* They're 0.266" in the 3D model (http://www.cartertools.com/crookmll.zip) someone named Richard Crook made that is available from cartertools.com
** Hmmm... apparently the slots are 1.006" middle to middle on that model... that's odd.

Hirudin, I finally got a chance to open that model in Solidworks. Wow! there's a lot of detail. This will definitely come in handy when designing a stand and enclosure.

Ok, 2 more (possibly silly) questions:

1) If I order from Keling, I was planning to get the KL23H256-21-8B stepper for x and y and the KL23H276-28-4B stepper for the z-axis. With these, what value of current limiting resistors would I need? These are just regular resistors, right? I figured "current limiting" just refers to their application.

2) I was looking at the manual for the G540, and I see a VFD DRIVE as one of the components. It took a lot of searching to figure out that meant variable frequency drive (don't laugh). Is this just for a variable speed spindle? Should I just ignore that part?

Thanks again to everyone's input. My final list of everything I'm going to buy initially is almost finished. Hopefully, my "funding" will show up in the next couple of days, so I can start ordering! :)

The 'VFD' output is a 0-10V signal to control the spindle speed on a variable speed spindle. Unless you add a variable speed spindle motor/drive at some point it is not important.

For the current limiting resistors you use 1K per amp of rated coil current. So if you have a 2.8A motor you would want a 2.8K resistor. The closest you will find is 2.7K, which will work fine. Don't go nuts trying to get it exact. Use a regular 1/4" carbon resistor.

Thanks Jeff, that clears it up for me. Has anyone ever called these stepper manufacturers and told them to make those resistors an integral part of their motors? Anyway, I have everything I need to get this thing off the ground (I think). This forum rocks!

The resistors are a requirement of the G540 drive not the steppers. Some drives have an adjustment pot and require you to measure a voltage while adjusting it. Others use dip switches. Personally I like adding the resistors to the plugs. It is simple and won't come maladjusted.

Some folks have problems finding the resistors locally, that is why I recently decided provide them with the G540s I sell; it's part of providing good service, not just selling parts. :)

In response to your comment about looking for material to practice on.
I highly recommend Delrin. I have been getting mine at mcmaster carr.
It is super easy to work with. It's easy on your cutters and it's forgiving
of bad speed and feed settings. ;-)

Also it's easier to clean up than wood. I actually set up a vacuum nozzle near the cutter
when I need to cut wood so that the dust doesn't get into the screws and ways.

In response to your comment about looking for material to practice on.
I highly recommend Delrin. I have been getting mine at mcmaster carr.
It is super easy to work with. It's easy on your cutters and it's forgiving
of bad speed and feed settings. ;-)

Also it's easier to clean up than wood. I actually set up a vacuum nozzle near the cutter
when I need to cut wood so that the dust doesn't get into the screws and ways.

Although Delrin is really nice material to work with (I've been using it to make molds for liquid plastic casting) it's awful expensive. McMaster also sells a recycled HDPE "lumber" board that I've been meaning to check out, it's way cheaper than Delrin. http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastic-lumber/=1v3qiw is their page on it. I'll throw some in with my next McMaster order and let you know how it works out.

Find some machinable wax. It is the greatest stuff to practice and do prototypes in. You can also easily recycle the scraps.

Thanks guys, this is great. :cheers:

I noticed Delrin is about the cost of aluminum. Maybe a little expensive for practice (for me), but I bet it's a good material for machining if your end part needs to be made of plastic. escott76, it's funny that you mentioned the recycled HDPE because I just found that looking through materials on McMaster yesterday afternoon, haha. That looks like the cheapest stuff per volume. Please, let me know how the stuff works out with machining. Jeff, I've looked at machinablewax.com and the stuff is pretty reasonable even in bigger blocks. It's not as cheap as the HDPE, but it might save in the long run if I get a recycling routine down.

Yeah Delrin is not cheap but for practice it is cheaper than Aluminum because it doesn't dull your cutter. I am interested in hearing about HDPE also escott76. I would love to see some pics of a part milled from it.

Thanks guys, this is great. :cheers:

I noticed Delrin is about the cost of aluminum. Maybe a little expensive for practice (for me), but I bet it's a good material for machining if your end part needs to be made of plastic. escott76, it's funny that you mentioned the recycled HDPE because I just found that looking through materials on McMaster yesterday afternoon, haha. That looks like the cheapest stuff per volume. Please, let me know how the stuff works out with machining. Jeff, I've looked at machinablewax.com and the stuff is pretty reasonable even in bigger blocks. It's not as cheap as the HDPE, but it might save in the long run if I get a recycling routine down.

The wax does work good as well, and McMaster carries it too. I also use the wax to make molds for the liquid plastic.
As for recycling the scraps remelting the big pieces is easy, but dealing with the fine chips isn't worth the time IMHO. I just remelt the bigger chunks.

Yeah Delrin is not cheap but for practice it is cheaper than Aluminum because it doesn't dull your cutter. I am interested in hearing about HDPE also escott76. I would love to see some pics of a part milled from it.

Well, yes and no.
Delrin, like any plastic, requires a very sharp cutter- generally one which has never been used on metal. The early dulling as it's used on metal won't be a problem for milling metal, but it will be problem for the more sensitive plastic.

UHMW will basically never dull the cutter. Acrylic will, eventually, and clear acrylic's a top problem for quality finish requiring the sharpest cutters. The killer though is that "glass filled" plastics- and SOME Delrin is glass-reinforced- do substantially dull the cutters, yet do themselves require high standards of sharpness.

The "MDF" masonboard is a good material to test in. It won't hold fine features, but the idea is there. Very easy to cut through and dirt cheap.

The "MDF" masonboard is a good material to test in. It won't hold fine features, but the idea is there. Very easy to cut through and dirt cheap.

I agree MDF cuts really nice. My concern with it is the wood dust it makes. It is so light that it stays i nthe air a long time and sticks to ALL or the oily surfaces on the ways and screws. I have taken to running my shop vac the entire time that I am cutting MDF. I have been mounting the intake nozzle real close to the cutter and have it vacuum all the dust away. But as you can imagine it is noisy and I would rather not deal with it.