Wondering is anyone is using Workshop for day to day work. If not why not ?

What is it?
How is it?
How 'bout a link

PEACE:D

For anyone interested the links are below:

CADKEY WORKSHOP21 (http://www.cadkey.com/workshop/index.asp)

CADKEY WORKSHOPV21EX (http://www.cadkey.com/workshopex/index.asp)

I am currently using CK19 for day to day work. I use Work shop to create complex solid models. The Workshop modeler is AWSOME. Anyone who liked creatindg solids in Cadkey 19 will LOVE modeling in Workshop.

Workshop is a complete rewrite from the ground up of the CADKEY product. It is built on the latest ACIS modeling kernal, and incorporates the HOOPS display and rendering system. The new architecture is touted to enable rapid development of enhancements due to the use of these components and an entirely stream of source code.

Workshop V 20 was rather buggy. Version several patches improved things but the "Layout" fubnctionality although it worked was virtually usless for anything but the simplest drawings. This due to a problem inherent in the HOOPS display system component that Workshop uses.

Version 21 was released only months after the release of V.20. Version 21 incorporated much of the functionality formerly contained in the Cadkey FastSurf product (advanced surface editing and creation including organic surfaces) and the DRAFTPAK product (Parametric Creation of Fasteners, Gears, Structural Shapes and other mechanicl elements.) 21 fixed many of the bugs, but the Layout problem still existed.

CK is now in BETA for version 21.5 (I am a beta tester). The priorities for 21.5 are improving the performance of the layout mode as well as overal system performance. Some added functionality will also be included. This in my oopinion will be the point at which the CK19 userbase moves en mass to the WS product full time.

Version 21EX is essentially the Version 21 Product with the addition of High End Translators for Unigraphics, Pro E and CATIA.

Cadkeys challenge of thaking a flagship product developed through the 80's and 90's and re creating to 2K standards is nothing short of monumental. The real fruit of this labor will likely be seen as the version 21.5 and 22 products are released.

Is that better Hardmill ? :D

No, We are using Cadkey 19 because they changed the file format and it is not compatable with the .PRT anymore. We can't use the new version unless all our partners in Asia upgrade as well. I have Workshop sitting in boxes next to me.

Dare I ask how much?

yeah.......... How Much? :D
Damn it CAMando. I was doing good resisting the temptation and now ya want me to take that first drink don't ya. :D I have a buddy that's a reseller that makes it easy for me to get demos, but I never asked for that one on account the company ditched CK for Solid Works. But I'm still CK. Is there a Workshop demo?
This sounds like somthing I want to try out but like Home said...
we're all still .prt people.

http://www.cadkey.com/webstore/ck/ckworkshop_ex/index.asp

BASIC WORKSHOP PRICE (http://www.cadkey.com/webstore/ck/ckworkshop/index.asp)

Oh come on CAMmando, you're no fun.

I spoke to someone at Cadkey, and asked if they would stop buy the site to lend some support. So will see what happends.

CNC Admin,

I wuz gonna suggest that.

;)

Moldcore

Oh come on CAMmando, you're no fun.

All my cheap dates say that :banana:

Great Idea. :) admin.
CAMando,
Don't you think the drastic file format change is going to make it difficult for BayState? (Still BayState.. yes?..No?) Times are already tough and to me it seems to be a bad time to do this. I wouldn't think new stuff would sell well because most other systems need to be compatable.
Will other cad and or cad/cam systems that were capable of opening the old ASCII and ACIS still be able work with the newer CK files?

Here is a similar example:
I run 2 versions of Gibbs. The newer one is built on Granite. If I open an file (that was created in the old one) with the new vers.
then the format is updated and I no longer can open it with the old version.
So if someone running an old vers. sends me a file and I tweak it in the newer version and send it back to him, he will not be able to open it.
Not good for busines IMO

Yeah the new format .ckd is not backward compatible. MOdels translate fine using step or ACIS SAT, but the actual drawing file can not be opened by an older version. BUT ... the CK program was written in the 80's. It was the first real 3D PC modeler. It became very popular for mechanical design. But as with Autocad and lets say MasterCAM, their earlier success becomes an albatros as new competition has the advantage of building their software on the state of the art in programming, OS and data management tools. If file compatibility is maintained eventually the software will die on the vine because the file structure just wasnt intended to do the kinds of things that users will be expecting. Take your favorite Wordprocessing software and try to open a file in an old version of the application.

I use Mastercam for CNC programming, and they are faced with the same challange. As you said Gibbs had to do it too.

Most software is not backward compatible. Some, like Word, allow you to save in previous versions, but eternal backward compatibility is not realistic. What makes the compatibility dificult during the CadKey transition is the fact that users will not make the move at the same time. Some move quicker than others. In the case of a total re-write, that transition is going to occur over a longer period of time.

As far as interoperability, the models can be output in Acis SAT and that supports older SAT versions. Same with some of the other formats. I bring my models into CK19 and Mastercam everyday with no trouble.

I am re-reading my Posts and see that Im sounding like a CK selesman or something. Nothing could be further from the truth. I, like other CK users waited and waited for Workshop which finnaly released well after initally planned. The first released was buggy as I mentioned and we (the CK users) were rather disapointed. The general consesus among active users was that the new interface was great, unlimited undo / redo was great the unlimited, drag and drop nested level system was great. The solid / surface modeling was great. Things seem very stable, rarely crashes, the old corrupted solids error a thing of the past. LOts of really good stuff. The shortcomings were in the layout performance some buggy detailing functionality and for some folks who relied on custom written CADL utilities, the CADL implementation presented a delema.

No doubt CK Corp. (Not Baystate any more) has had to weather the storm as they put the bulk of their resources into developing a new product. But I think the largest part of the development is over and what users will see now is significant improvements in functionality and performance.

Just my take.

Before the change in Cadkey I was also a beta tester. I tried like He*L to get them to add the ability to save the wire frame lines in the .PRT format. I can see that the new solids format can't go back but if you draw simple lines in 2D you should have the ability to save in the old version. They would not even comment back to me about it. So as a result they have lost a maintance contract for 50 licenses from me.

Home CNC,

Yeah, there is no ability to save into .prt format at all. The acis SAT export however does now support wireframe entities not just solids, so geometry can be transfered that way. But it is still a translation process.

Curious are you still using 19 or did youswitch to another system ?

We are still using CK19. I guess in the near future I will need to conduct a benchmark for 2D tools or just stick with 19.

I've used Cadkey since 1989 and for the first time in 14 years when I received my AUC (Annual Update Contract) I threw it in the garbage. I have NO intentions of renewal. In fact, what lead me to this site was a hope of others that have already gone through the process of seeking a new program.

Ocassionally, through the years I have evaluated other programs hoping that "Brand X" had found a better way of designing than Cadkey. I have always liked the simplicity of design editing and versitility, jumping from 2D to 3D modeling, the one thing Cadkey had above all other programs.

Having lost data with the Cadkey 19 solid modeler and finding the future of Cadkey 21 does NOT contain prt files has forced to to find a new program. Now, I am able to look at programs that have partnered with Microsoft and other major applications, rather than deal with some of Cadkeys other glaring inadequacies.

Any of you find something that comes close to Cadkey yet, in terms of design ease?

Geo
I'm presently working with Inventor and it is very easy to learn. Plus you can create an assembly and check for interference between the moving parts. Too bad it cost so much!

Doug

I am still using .prt's. IMO the drastic file format change is gonna
make things real hard for the CK people. Users and resellers alike.
Big mistake, not to be reverse comaptable. Our engineering dept. uses Solid Works but I am not so quick to jump on that train. There is a lot of powerfull stuff out there. I can't even see it working unless they are willing to re-tool all the users of the old versions at a huge discount.
Solid Works and Gibbs are both going through the same growing pains. You can open an old file with the new version but once you do.. the old version cannot open it again as it will me mutated to the new format. With the case of CK. I don't think the new will even open the old, but I'm not shure. (.prt and .cdk are not the same) :rolleyes:
Musta been an idea of someone in MANAGEMENT ya think? :D

I took Cadkey 20 out of the box, loaded it, after it crashed a couple of times, it went on the shelf.

With CK21, the limitations are to glaring (namely detailing a part), although some of the improvements are definately worth having especially if you use the solid modeler (unlimited levels....ohhhh! nice). I'm sold on solid modeling the way I was sold on 3D wireframe coming from a 2d package.

Honestly, does CK expect us to use the 3d modeler in CK21, translate it and import it back into CK19 for the detailing, for some that may be realistic but it seems like that is a lot of added work. My days with Cadkey are numbered............ BTW the Solid Works Rep. is coming to my office today.

Geo, you will most likely be impressed. I was and that ain't easy to do. Our engineering dept. is hooked and the company is financially committed. But as far as my own dealings (I program and do fixture design myself seperate from the company) I have not made up my mind untill (I think) I've seen it all. I'm now using Gibbs, CK(old) and just learning Master Cam(rookie) and still wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. ProE, Cimatron, UG nx and Catia are all honorable mentions. And they all bragg that they are the best. Just not affordable. :(
I really loved the Cimatron demo. I think the Cimatron sketcher blows the SW one away. Every function/command you may want is directly under a right click. Less miles on your mouse.
The thing that blew it for them was the absence of lathe support.
Good luck and tell us what you find.

Turbine,

thanks for the info. Cimitron? now it might be a good program, great for that matter but one thing I have found using CK. You don't want to stray to far from the bulk of CAD users.

Knowing the shops that we use, I am very comfortable putting up with some of the disadvantages of a program like Solid Works, so that I remain compatible with their systems. It's unfortunate but a reality. I hate hearing the words, "What program do you use?....... Never heard of it!" Bad sign coming from your job shops that you use. :)


I have used Solid Edge and I loved it (until it was sold to Unigraphics) so using SW should be easy and fit nicely here. I'm still going to look at other packages.

One of my priorities is finding something that is strong in Data Management. I was really impressed with SW eDrawings program too.

We had The Solidworks sales people come in last month for a demo. It's nice but overkill for what we do and lacked good surfacing tools. I have a few customers who would like me to have it on hand but we seem to get by with the IGES or Parasolid's x_t format. My Surfcam will read Solidworks files directly without going through the extra steps of translating. I would really like to have Solidworks here but the cost ($5000+) is just too much at this time to justify.

I use Cadkey21 now on a daily basis with only a few bugs showing up now and then. I'm also beta testing CK21.5 and it's better yet with detailing and printing problems in CK21 having been fixed. As for backward compatibility, I don't think that is something to worry about. There are so many tools available for translating you shouldn't have any problems. I'll keep CK19 on my computer for sometime to come just in case, however.

Someone here mentioned that the new Cadkey can't at least save the wireframe in .prt format, they are right but the new sat format now does this along with the solid if you need it.

moldcore

We should all get together for a celebration. :D
They FIXED the printing issues? Every version of CK I can remember back to ('96 - v7.5 wireframe ) has had some kind of printing "issue" Any clue as to a release date?

amen

Release date? Who knows? No programs perfect, and I don't expect this release to be perfect when it's released whenever that will be. I suspect a few more weeks of beta testing for fine tuning. Cad programs, with hundreds of combinations of commands and mouse clicks are inherently prone to being a little squeaky. It takes time to get these squeaks out, unfortunately. I mentioned our Solidworks demo, it crashed three times during the demo. And that was with a released version. They blamed it on a new video card, you never know.

As far as printing goes, I'm sure there will be some who will have problems, there always is with any program, but I'm not seeing any more complaints from here. We've always had to tweak the program or the printer to get results we could live with in the past. Our Surfcam can't print landscape images no mater what we try, so Cadkey isn't alone

moldcore

I just received a newsletter from our CK rep. For the bulk of the newsletter he compares CK side-by-side to Ironcad. Essentially Ironcad comes out on top with his comparison..... CK has "no parametric solid modeler, no full animation, no automated BOM and IRONCAD also includes full sheet metal design capabilities." along with some minor pluses for IC.

This is the CK rep. hard selling another program and knocking CK to boot. doesn't bode well for CK's future.

We have 3 major machine designs. I can ill afford down time because of corrupt solid models (thank you CK 19). If I'm going to have to convert my CK19 files into CK21 files anyway, I think its time to get a program that is going to give me the features that will expedite the design process. CK doesn't seem to be living up to that billing right now IMO.